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Diablo 2 Items Bringing Home the Bacon
||Plazm|| writes: "I read an update over at Diabloii.net that talks about how some items in the game are producing sizeable income for some people. It points to an article at the San Francisco Chronicle describing some of these money makers. One banker claims he's made $25000 since he started with Diablo 2 and Ultima Online! Who are the people paying real money for this stuff? A few bucks is one thing, but a few hundred? I believe this has been talked about on /. before, but is the 'problem' getting worse? Is it a 'problem' at all?"
OK, excusing the title, this is quite serious. My little brother and his friend showed me a while ago how to make money on Diablo II.
Get a Sorceress, put some diamonds in a helm, and wait. Your odds of finding magic items goes up.
As you fight on Battle.net, have a really good Telekenesis skill, so that you can steal every dropped item. Have a goodly stock of identify scrolls/books so that you don't need to Town Portal to check the items as you grab em.
Do this for 4 hours a day for 3 weeks and you'll have enough items to start eBaying. Happy hunting.
I wonder how selling of "virtual items" fits in with the idea of virtual property? Is it okay to sell something you didnt create? (If i were to plant a garden, is it (for lack of a better term) ethical for you to pick my flowers and sell them?)
I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
I know someone in real life who has shelled over at least three digit dollar amounts for Diablo items. He does not fit your stereotype of a god mode Quake cheater. In fact, he was a dedicated developer on one of the most popular Quake mods of all time, which he played very often with his clan in all seriousness.
I would more quickly equate the type of person to do this sort of item purchasing to be the same type who would purchase stand up Street Fighter arcade machines: the hardcore gamer who [has a lot of cash and] is willing to up the ante and excitement by adding as many elements to the experience as possible.
You know, if thats what makes someone happy, purchasing virtual items, then why shouldn't we let them purchase virtual items. I buy lots of Legos and I'm a big fish guy, I spend 1000's of dollars on these things a year. Lots of people think I'm stupid for it, but you know what, thats what I like in life, I enjoy it and it makes me happy, thats what its all about.
The only problem I see is the fact that you can win at something because you have lots of money. But you know what, isn't that what the real world is anyway? I think Microsoft used this tactic, and someone by the name of my favorite breakfast juice...
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
...Buying LOW ICQ numbers.
We've sunk to a WHOLE NEW LOW.
People sure do suck.
Go see ramdac
A few years back, a programmer working on Ultima Online was fired for selling in game items on e-bay. He would create the accounts on the server, stack in a few of the requested items, and then sell them.
It could turn into an extra revenue stream for the developers if used very carefully, but such a thing would eventually destroy the game for average players. And here is another question for you to consider. Is it illegal for a hacker to create these items using a bug or hack, and then sell them for cash? And of course, I mean outside of the legality issues of hacking onto the servers in the first place.
END COMMUNICATION
A buddy of mine played Everquest every night for months. His wife constantly told him what a waste of time it was. Then, one day, he got tired of the game and sold his high level character on EBay for $1500. She hasn't bothered him about playing games since.
This sort of thing is no worse than the Beanie Baby craze. If you can make good money playing games (or buying and selling stuffed dolls for hundreds more than the 50 cents worth of material they're made of), more power to you. I'm not into gaming as much as I used to be, but if I was I'd be more than happy to harvest items and sell them for cash. Talk about the ultimate job.
-Ryan, with the unoriginal sig
...is that when these items get sold for real $$, those of us who don't want to spend out hard-earned dollars of intangible computer game items end up having to pay HUGE in-game money for the same item. Alot of the "uber" items in EverQuest are like this, and it does not surprise me to see it happen in D2. It really feks up the in-game economy.
But, this is old news.
Awhell, I play EQ for fun, not for a power trip. Hell, if I was in it for a power trip, I'd have to camp for hours on end, and basically give up my life. (But, that's EverCamp for ya.) As it stands, I'm happy with my non-uber items, and my non-uber character. Makes him that much more unique to me. I'm not going to pay money that is better spent on my bills, or on a toy for my truck than for a toy inside a game that I'll eventually lose interest in, anyways. (No matter how cool I feel after the fact.)
Just my $.02.
--
No sig here, nothing to see, go about your business.
The one problem I can see with having virtual items being sold for real currency is that ultimately the market for items in the on-line world is very malleable. The value of items is ultimately dependent on their scarcity and when the scarcity of an item is as simple as a changed parameter in a computer system, I can see real problems developing.
A couple examples of what could go wrong:
1) Somebody buys an item for $1000 figuring that it's going to go up in value. A few days later, the game designers decide to make that item very common. Can the game designers be held liable for financial losses incurred by that person's failed speculation?
2) In a permutation on item 1, what if the developers had made that change intentionally to destroy the market for those items?
3) What if a game designer adds a powerful item so that they can corner the market, selling them off for a handsome profit?
4) What if a bug in the system accidentally causes a fluctuation in the scarcity of a particular item (making it much easier to come by)?
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
I don't think it's a problem in the sense that it's spoiling the fun of the game for others, in the sense that it's cheating, or anything. It's just like buying and selling Magic cards or something like that. It doesn't spoil everything for the people who just like to play from time to time.
It can be a problem for those who spend more money than they have, and end up going into debt or denying themselves food and the like for weapons.
It's the same as any other hobby, y'know? Why single it out as a "problem" because it's with video games instead of baseball cards or something?
See for yourself. Recently closed items w/ "Diablo II" in the title, sorted by closing price.
I did some hunting around on e-bay to see how viable this really is. I found that of the 5227 items that popped up in a search for "diablo 2":
4397 of the items were priced less than $10.
456 of the items were priced between $11-25.
227 of the items were priced between $26-$50.
95 items were priced between $51-$100.
38 items were priced between $101-$200.
and 14 were priced higher than $201 (and one of those 14 isn't related to the game, it's a windsurfing sail).
Eyeballing the lists, it appears that more than half of the auctions at all level have no bids. This is just a guesstimate (I don't have time to count up the number of bids on the 5,080 items less than $50, it is true for the items over $51)
I'm highly skeptical that anyone could routinely make >$5000 month, easy, as is claimed by the guy in the article.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
I'd argue that this is an ESSENTIAL part of the game. Ok, well not really, but stick with me here. Most games where this kind of thing happens are games wherein the developers have tried to create an immersive world with a real society and (psudo)culture. That is to say, players are supposed to interact with each other etc. Now then, a game can NEVER be completely interactive. There will always be limitations of the interface, assumptions not covered, etc.
Players buying accounts, selling items, all of that, introduces the element of corruption into the game. What's more important, in my opinion, is garunteeing the authentisity of the commodoties in the game.
Example: I'm playing "Diablo IX: Diablo Comes back for some more because he's a masochist." I've reached level 97 and have recently picked up a "Tactical Thermonuclear Weapon +12" on the Fourth Level of Hell by kicking the crap out of a Tax Accountant. Now, Tactical Thermonuclear Weapons aren't terribly common in the Diablo IX universe, let alone +12 ones, and I'm allready armed with a Mighty Spork so I decide to sell the damn thing to help cover my ISP costs for the month. When I sitck the Tac Nuke up on Ebay, however, I discover that there's no market for Tac Nukes because someone's developed a crack that allows them to create any item instantaniously. This sucks. All my effort is for naught. I can't even sell this thing for cash because there's no way to garuntee that I'm selling a legitimate Tac Nuke. Even hard core gamers who don't want hacked weapons won't buy it from me because there's no way to garuntee that isn't not illegit.
That's my question. Why can't we work out a way to ensure the authenticity of the items in a game. If we can do that, why can't we develop a way to either disable or destroy inauthentic items?
Killfile(TGK)
No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
This is sickeningly true, actually; at least in my case.
A couple weeks ago I got a notification from iBill (ebay's online billing service that let's people pay with their credit card). Someone used a stolen credit card to buy some Everquest stuff from me a few months ago and it's finally getting sorted out. At any rate, I'm shit out of luck, as I can't prove that I delivered the items, so iBill is taking $300 out of my checking account.
Only saving grace is that I know that the person who ripped me is in jail right now.
I am a Sysadmin. I do not work cheap. My services run a minimum of $25 an hour, which is not cheap (Although if I wanted a much more intense job I could get double that.).
I play EverQuest in my free time. In EverQuest, there is a very cool item I wanted called A Flowing Black Silk Sash. The sash is a rather powerful item, is always in demand, and is somewhat rare. This has created conditions that make getting the sash take anywhere from a few hours with help from some friends, to a few days with a bit of luck. Given my character's status on her server, it probably would have taken me six to twelve hours to get this item. That works out to $150-$300 US of my time.
Instead, I tracked down someone selling his EverQuest account on ebay. I emailed him to see if he had said sash for sale on one of his characters, and sure enough he did. Within 24 hours we had exchanged the money via paypal and the item in game. Total cost to me = $100 and about ten minutes of free time, and I actually did the work while on the job. I was then able to use those extra hours study new things to do as a sysadmin, thus increasing my marketability, and in the long run, my overall salary.
Some people call me a cheater, I think of myself as economically minded.
I have a fairly high-level Diablo II character, a level 70 barbarian who has completed all quests to include the newly-added Act 5 quests from the expansion pack, all in Hell difficulty.
He's already got some real kick-ass gear, chief among those a war club capable of basically insta-gibbing Andariel on normal difficulty and a set of ancient plate providing 700+ in defense.
Now, I've had some folks lambast my character due to the fact that he uses this big old hammer without the use of a shield, but I figure that's okay: It's within his character to get hit a bunch by the boogerheads, and I accept that outcome during a normal gaming session.
Now, with the expansion pack, I see on Diabloii.net that there is this new item set that seems for all intents and purposes to be genetically designed for my character: big honkin' hammer, plate, belt, boots, gauntlets, and helmet -- all way more better than what he's currently packing.
Now that he's passed all the trials before him, I see no better way for him as a character to wile away the days than to search for that complete item set.
However, in all honesty, it would me/him YEARS to collect them.
I myself would pay a premium for the complete set from some other D2 player, but certainly not in triple-digits. I would do so because the D2 character I run in question is ready to ascend to NPC status, I have no interest whatsoever in playing him other than to have him help out other folks finish the necessary quests.
Maybe I might be interested in getting him to clvl 99, but not nearly as much as I'd like to see him get that set.
I'm ready to retire him to being a secondary character to someone else's adventure, I'd just like to get him 100% complete in the process.
If the game itself would only drop *one* of those items, I'd forego the monetary route, but in all sad honesty, it's not gonna happen.
Does this make sense?
IF.cmg
I've often wondered about that statement "For all debts, public and private." Lots of things only let you pay by credit card these days (AT&T @Home Cable Internet service, for example). Is that legal? Don't they HAVE to accept cash somehow?
Similarly, when you go in to a fast food place like Burger King, and they refuse any bill larger than $20 or a whole pile of change. How is that legal? If I show up with $100, its real US money, why don't they have to take it?
Or are they required to take it, but will give you a real hard time about it?