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Which DVD-Recordable Drives?
We've had a couple stories recently about DVD-RW and such. I'm wondering what ones out there people have used, how well they work, what's the support etc etc. I'm also still on my quest to build the ultimate quiet machine, so any comment on the amount of noise the drive generates would be great - I love my Yamaha Drive for burning - but it's a *loud* one.
This web site is good for news on DVD recording
technology:
http://www.dvdwriters.co.uk
Horrible aren't we? I also took a shower this morning and just now went and made some iced tea.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
No, not as such, because the DVD ring that stores the CSS key is zeroed out on blank DVDs. That having been said, you could, in theory, run a DVD through DeCSS then burn the unencrypted video to the disc, but there are DVD players out there that won't play unencrypted video.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
There are two widely used mechanisms for consumer priced DVD recording drives.
/CD-RW/CD-R drive.
There is the Pioneer DRV-103/A03 unit that is used in the G4 Power Macintosh computers.
It is a DVD-R / DVD-RW
It writes and rewrites DVD and CD media, and it's DVD movies are playable in set top box DVD players.
The other prevalent drive is a Panasonic unit that is DVD+RW, DVD-R, DVD-RAM, CD (no CD recording, just playback.)
Plextor, Yamaha and others are largely reselling these mechanisms.
Expect to pay about 500-1000 dollars US for one of these units. These are DVD General drives, and cannot be used as Masters for DVD reproduction use. The DVD Authoring drives are SCSI, cost upwards of $5000, and the only one I know if is a Pioneer unit. (Doesn't mean there aren't others, but I haven't done my homework to find them.)
God bless America, and may her enemies cower in fear.
the DVD+RW drives coming out soon will likely be the best balance of compatibility and flexibility, since the drives burn discs usable in almost all standard DVD players, not to mention CDR and CD-RW discs. Also, from what i understand, the upgradable firmware will allow for when future capacity increases.
Check out
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.3 for a nice compatability grid.
Because of that, I would go for price or bundled software.
What ever you get, make it an external scsi, and then put the drive 6 meters away,in a closet.
You said nothing about convinent...;)
Actually putting it in an external case may make it less audible.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Which goes to show that the DVD Consortium thinks about YOUR copyrights. They are allowed to use CSS to scramble their disks for their "copyright protection", but someone who wants to protect their own creation must pay up and join in their cartel. Why?
"there are DVD players out there that won't play unencrypted video"
Are you serious? What about all of the *legal* films (and other multimedia whatevers) which are on unencrypted DVDs? I personally own an unencrypted DVD - it came with Diablo 2 and contains all the cinematic sequences, plus a lot of other stuff. Are there companies that make DVD players which *intentionally* won't play my DVD, simply because they can't distinguish it from one that *might* be pirated? What happens when people start burning home video to DVD, without encrypting it? Tough luck? If this is true, and especially if the players are not advertised as having this `feature' (which must surely be illegal, as it would be unable to play a disc conforming to the DVD standard), I fail to see how the manufacturers would justify it. The purpose may be reasonable, but taking away a person's right to use something they legally own is most definitely not.
Wait a minute, that argument seems vaguely familiar...
The discs referred to in the article have been "hacked" with a hole puncher. Users will now be sued by the RIAA, MPAA, and the producer of the disc, because doubling the capacity steals their revenues.
Here is a lot of good info about DVD+RW.
:-)
From what it says there, DVD+RW is both cheaper and more compatible than DVD-RW, for about the same capacity. DVD+RW uses a slightly different technique that reduces gaps between data to give compatibility with the "vast majority" of existing DVD players. It is also apparently more flexible in burning compatible discs, 7x faster to close the session, and allows erasing of individual sections, rather than just the whole disc.
HP are shipping their first dvd100i DVD+RW drive this month for US$599. DVD+RW media will reportedly sell for about US$16 (compared to the US$24 I've seen for DVD-RW media). Philips have announced their standalone DVD+RW unit, and will ship the bare drive in October.
Apparently, initial units will only support DVD+RW/DVD-ROM/CD-R/CD-RW/CD-ROM, but DVD+R (analogous to DVD-R, but apparently also cheaper/more compatible) is promised shortly via a firmware upgrade. DVD-R media support may also be available.
FWIW, my own experiences with DVD-R are mixed; 2 of the 4 DVD players and DVD-ROM drives I've tried DVD-R discs with would not recognise the discs at all. I plan to get a dvd100i as soon as they're available
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
DVD-R and DVD-RW can be played in set-top boxes, though not all of the older boxes will play home-burned DVDs. For a good matrix of what media play in which drives, check:
t .shtml
http://www.proh.com/DVD_and_CD_compatibility_char
Back when DVD-ROMs were first developed, pleas to include "linking areas," also called "run-in" on magnetic media, were ignored. This meant that there would be no space to write bits to allow the data clock to be recovered. This is not a problem with a continuously written disc, as the "earlier" data can be used.
However, with most technologies, the start of writing can vary hundreds of bits from its nominal location. This means that if you write sector 1, and later write sector 2 on its tail, there is no way to align the data clock to the data in time to read the data of sector 2, since the first bits are used to recover the clock.
DVD-RAM addressed this problem by introducing a new format. There are small embossed address headers to mark where each sector might be, and a small written run-in for each recorded sector. This media is highly susceptible to scratches, since the embossed headers are easily obscured by dust or a scratch. Also, having the embossed headers means that these discs are INCOMPATIBLE with DVD-ROM drives.
DVD-RAM discs also use land/groove recording. This means changes to the servo mechanism just to follow the track. A DVD-ROM drive must add in special reader circuitry to handle the data coding, different block architecture (ROMs use blocks of 16 sectors), different servos for land/groove structure, etc. DVD-RAM is endorsed by the DVD Forum, so is the "official" format.
DVD-RW is also endorsed by the DVD Forum, but for video use. Its intended application for reliable use is to not put data in the first block where you first start writing (it becomes your run-in). The "link point" where writing begins and ends occurs about 1.5 sectors into the 16 sector block. This means that the first 1.5 sectors, while readable, have unrelated data to what you just recorded! Also, some amount of the beginning of what you did write will be unreadable because the data clock needs to be recovered, and the words synchronized to a sync mark. Realistically, the first two sectors will be trashed in any sector that contains a link point. These sectors are recoverable by ECC, but it severely reduces the amount of recovery that can be done on your real data!
DVD-RW uses a shallow, low frequency, wobbled groove with some high frequency "ticks" (occurring at a low frequency) to gain some positional accuracy. These ticks are extremely susceptible to dirt, etc.
Overall, DVD-RW is best used as a re-usable DVD-R.
DVD+RW uses a shallow wobbled groove. However, this wobble is a continuous high frequency, and uses phase modulation to contain address information. The link point is a few bytes from the end of the sector, meaning that only a few bytes are sacrificed to the ECC gods (instead of 4K in the case of DVD-RW), and sufficient data exists to act as the run-in for the newly written sector.
The logical layout of DVD+RW is identical to the logical layout of DVD-ROMs. Any drive that conforms to the DVD-ROM standards will read a DVD+RW disc. Unfortunately, some manufacturers took shortcuts (like assuming a low reflectivity disc is a dual layer disc, rather than reading the proper parameter from the media).
The design characteristics of DVD+RW are such that it works well for randomly written data, and is compatible with DVD-ROM drives.
In short, DVD-RAM only works if the reader was deliberately designed to read it. DVD-RW is readable by properly designed ROM readers, but is a very fragile format. Finally, DVD+RW is readable in properly designed ROM readers, and has the most robust inherent design.Standards that describe these DVD formats are available from ECMA.
Disclaimer: I work for HP, and used to work in their DVD group. Opinions expressed here are mine, not HPs.
Sorry, but there is no way that players not conforming to the standard are `illegal' in the sense of the law. If they were, then there would be many manufacturers of early DVD players who would be being sued by consumers for non-100%-conforming players, which wouldn't play their discs properly.
Hmmm, consortium-based standards.
Who the hell decided to use the abbreviations "DVD-RW" and "DVD+RW" for two significantly different formats? These couldn't be more confusing, especially since there is no clear way to even verbally articulate the difference. Why not "DVD-RW1" and "DVD-RW2"? Hasn't the hardware industry learned the lesson that causing confusion for consumers is detrimental to them?
The only certainty is entropy.
Horse-shite. Another /.er with an elevated opinion of what he actually knows.
1) There are 2 DVD standards
a) DVD for authoring
b) DVD for general use.
2) DVD for authoring DVD-Rs can only be burned on drives that support this standard. Currently the cheapest of these drives is still $5k+
3) DVD for general use does not support encryption or region coding.
4) 99% of standalone DVD players built in the last 18 months support DVD or General Use DVD-Rs.
5) It is completely possible to copy a commercial (DVD authoring std) to a DVD-R for general use, however, it must be decrypted first. It must also fit onto a 4.7G DVD-R disk, 75% of commercial DVDs will not fit. I have verified that it is possible to produce a perfect digital copy of a commercial disk.
6) There is a lot of misinformation floating around re: DVD-RW & DVD+RW. Both standards work well withe existing h/w. There is not much to choose between them.
7) I have the Pioneer A03 IDE DVD-RW drive. It's an excellent piece of h/w and can be purchased for $650. I have used it for burning home movies (boy, is that a long process!) and for data backup.
8) DVD-R media can be had for $8. DVD-RW for $21. Checkout www.meritline.com if you don't believe me.