Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Are There 802.11 Cards That Accept A Wire?

Posted by Cliff on from the when-a-2.4Ghz-signal-is-unavailable dept.

Luti asks: "Does anyone know of a company that sells 802.11 dongles, or a PCMCIA card that has both a regular RJ-45 connector and an 802.11 antenna? I need to be able to connect my laptop at school (wireless), and at home through my server (due to price most likely wired). I just can't see the point in either a.) buying 2 pcmcia cards for their current prices, one 802.11 and one regular 10/100mbps, or b.) buying an 802.11 card and base station, or even a second card for peer to peer . Any suggestions? Anyone else in my position?" Interesting thought. I'm sure there are hardware manufacturers making these. Has anyone tried some of these out? What were your experiences, especially with regards to OS support?

20 comments

  1. Don't be a weenie - buy two cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    10/100 PC Cards are hitting $30 now.

    Mike

  2. jeez by timothy · · Score: 1

    Actually, 10/100 cards are getting pretty cheap, but there's more to it than being a weenie or not ;)

    a) fewer pieces to carry around -- good thing.
    b) if both capabilities could be used at once, you could, for instance, make a laptop into a base station for other wireless-equipped computers in the near
    c) eventually, would be nice because the potential is there for it to be cheaper as a combo card (one chassis, two sought-after capabilites ... )
    I think this is a cool idea ... just like laptops with two slots have been used this way, when someone has both an 802.11 and an Ethernet card that will fit in without blocking the other ...

    timothy

    --
    jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
  3. I don't think so by kevin42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have just about every 802.11b card ever made sitting on my desk at work because I wrote an 802.11 stack for some hardware my company makes and I needed to test compatability. I've never seen what you are looking for though.

    It doesn't surprise me since the RF part of 802.11 cards takes a lot of room, and there isn't room for an antenna and a dongle or rj45 connector. I'd reccomend you do what I've done...eject one card and plug the other in. :)

    1. Re:I don't think so by Custard · · Score: 1

      Kenin42,

      Would you be willing to recommend a card?

      I am looking for something that is supported by more utilities. Net Stumbler, sniffers, AirSnort, WSA, and that sort of thing.

      I would also *very* much like a removable antenna. I do wireless consulting and the ability to put different antennas on my laptop during a site survey is sweet.

      Cheap is also good :-)

      My old Aironet 4800 has been a workhorse for a long time, but it is a bit of an oddball. None of the cool tools support it.

      Many thanks,

      Dan

    2. Re:I don't think so by kevin42 · · Score: 2

      There are basically 3 cards out there,

      Lucent
      Cisco
      Prism

      All others are mostly oems of one of the above vendors. I've found the Lucent Orinoco to be well supported under linux, but I think the Cisco Aironet 350 wins hands down.

      It has great support under linux and windows (I've got the commercial product AiroPeek from wildpackets and the cisco is a nice sniffer with it). The latest linux cisco driver is supposed to do sniffing, but I haven't tried that yet.

      If you pay a little more for the cisco with the antenna connectors you will be happy. Get a cheap mag-mount antenna and drive around the parking lots with airsnort for all sorts of fun. :)

      The prism based nics are nice but support under linux isn't always as good as lucent and cisco. You can get sniffer mode working with the linux-wlan drivers if you apply the patch which I don't have the link for at the moment. I'll reply to my own message when I find it.

      The bottom line is I'd buy cisco for nics. The prices are coming down. APs are another story. :)

    3. Re:I don't think so by Fluffy+the+Cat · · Score: 2

      Airsnort currently requires a Prism-II based card, IIRC (they have the ability to listen on all channels simultaneously). The Linux-wlan site has a list of cards with this chipset.

  4. Generally... by cmowire · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Generally the computer industry has a pretty crappy record of making a card do more than one thing at a time. Notice that, with the exception of cards that integrate the various video i/o functionality, it's one function, one card, in terms of consumer available hardware. Combination modem/ethernet cards never really cought on, and the first ones had annoying quirks to them.

    Unless somebody deliberately made a chipset that could go either way, I suspect that a combo-card would be a collision of the guts of a wireless and wired ethernet card with a CardBus bridge to link them. As a result, you would likely end up paying the cost for both cards, plus a premium and be aimed more to be a convenience item instead of a budget item.

    Plus, many laptops aimed at business will have built-in ethernet, meaning that it is of limited market interest.

    --
    Gentoo Sucks
  5. Two is much easier by Controlio · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is one of those situations where you have to look past the cost. Ease of use is the factor here, not to mention the fact that no one knows of a combo RF/Ethernet card. I know I've never heard of such an animal.

    I do what you do, but on a larger scale. I have "accumulated" 4 ethernet cards. One a 10baseT/2 with a dongle, one a 100baseT with a connector built in, another 100baseT with a dongle, and an Orinoco (Lucent) 802.11b card. It is by FAR easier to have a different card for each network configuration.

    You've got to be asking yourself, why? This is easy. Every one of my networks has a night-and-day difference from the other ones. One network is DHCP, another won't reply unless my MAC and IP are set properly, the wireless is told to only answer a specific IP... and so on. Anyways, in my laptop, the OS knows each network configuration, simply by assigning a new network configuration to each piece of hardware. As soon as you plug it in, it just works. No reconfig, no additional programs... plug the SOB in, and you're networking.

    And yes, I've tried all of those icky little Netswitcher-type programs, and none of them work as well as just simply having different hardware for each config. Once it's configured, even a monkey could make it work. It may not be cost effective, but it's reliable as all hell.

  6. maybe Xircom will by extra88 · · Score: 1

    Xircom has their RealPort and RealPort2 products which combine different communications options. Their RealPort2 line includes Ethernet (naturally), bluetooth, and wireless data for mobile phones but no WiFi. They do make a WiFi card but its got the ordinary PC card form factor.

    The need for an external antenna may be part of why they don't have a WiFi RealPort card, the whole point of that product line is to have ports which are unobtrusive, flush with the laptop case. Or maybe they just can't squeeze all the electronics in yet.

  7. other options by extra88 · · Score: 1

    I think your cheapest option is going to be 2 PC cards, one for each connection type.

    If your laptop has a built-in modem which is in a mini PCI slot, you may be able to pop it out and install a mini PCI Ethernet or even wireless card (tho' I think its best to buy the wireless pre-installed so there's an antenna built-in).

    Orinoco has USB and ethernet converters but they aren't really built for portability.

  8. jeez, you're one cheap fuck. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can get 10/100 PCMCIA ethernet cards for like $40. This is somehow cost-prohibitive??

  9. Dell by Levine · · Score: 1

    Dell sells laptops that come with an 802.11 internal mini-PCI card and antenna built into the machine, leaving the PCMCIA port open for your wired network card. This is what I use at school here - wired in the dorm room, where there is no wireless coverage, and wireless at class.

    I don't know if any other notebook manufacturers make use of this mini-PCI slot, but it's quite useful. I'd look into getting one adapter in mini-PCI, and the other via PCMCIA.

    Cheers,
    levine

  10. What I'd like to see by JediTrainer · · Score: 2

    Perhaps it might be better if a hardware company could come out with an adapter.

    Instead of having the wireless hardware built into the card, wouldn't it be nice if someone came up with a way to just use a regular ethernet card, and plug in sort of a 'wireless adapter dongle' into it instead of your cat5?

    That way, the same card could be used for both, plus the adapter could be made to work with any card. Perhaps this sort of hardware solution could be OS-independent as well...

    --

    You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
    1. Re:What I'd like to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of having the wireless hardware built into the card, wouldn't it be nice if someone came up with a way to just use a regular ethernet card, and plug in sort of a 'wireless adapter dongle' into it instead of your cat5?

      You obviously have no idea how much complexity is invlolved in 802.11b. No solution for 802.11b works without a pc to controll it. In the case of the client card it is obvious, its your pc with a driver that does the work. In the case of a base station or access point there is a pc (embedded) that controlls the communications. There is no way to make a generic, small media adapter for 802.11b at this time. After a few more revs of miniturization there might be, but I doubt it as there is a limit to how small things like the antenna and the rf components can get.

    2. Re:What I'd like to see by Benley · · Score: 1

      Lucent has actually sold one of these such things - but you'll laugh when I tell you that their Cat5-to-802.11 adapter is actually a Wavelan card in a box. It's expensive, and fairly ridiculous to boot.

    3. Re:What I'd like to see by JediTrainer · · Score: 2

      You obviously have no idea how much complexity is invlolved in 802.11b. No solution for 802.11b works without a pc to controll it. In the case of the client card it is obvious, its your pc with a driver that does the work. In the case of a base station or access point there is a pc (embedded) that controlls the communications. There is no way to make a generic, small media adapter for 802.11b at this time. After a few more revs of miniturization there might be, but I doubt it as there is a limit to how small things like the antenna and the rf components can get.

      So embed a pc in there. I never said I was concerned about cost. Nor did I ever say that it had to be smaller than a PC card. You can get an embedded PC in something as small as a SIMM. so size isn't a concern for me. What I wanted was something that was flexible, perhaps the size of a Palm Pilot or less, which could handle that sort of thing. I never said it was a simple device, but that's something that the hardware can address, and it need not be my problem then. Remember, Joe User doesn't WANT to have to care how complex 802.11b is - he just wants it to work when he plugs it in.

      --

      You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
    4. Re:What I'd like to see by JediTrainer · · Score: 2

      Lucent has actually sold one of these such things - but you'll laugh when I tell you that their Cat5-to-802.11 adapter is actually a Wavelan card in a box. It's expensive, and fairly ridiculous to boot.

      That'd be more or less what I'd expect anyway. It'd be useful, but only if they can get it to be easy to use for non-technical folks. People who can either plug the wire in or plug the box in, and voila, they're connected. DHCP ought to be able to handle the rest.

      What was involved in booting the thing?

      --

      You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
    5. Re:What I'd like to see by adolf · · Score: 2
      and plug in sort of a 'wireless adapter dongle' into it instead of your cat5?

      I believe they call these access points .

      --
      Kid-proof tablet..
  11. Not likely... by stienman · · Score: 2

    Even if you could find one, you'll find that the price will be significantly higher than two seperate cards. You can get a pcmcia 100BaseT card for under $40 now, and swapping isn't a huge pain.

    -Adam

  12. Not PCMCIA, but... by Matthew+Weigel · · Score: 2

    I've seen Mini-PCI cards that do this (Gateway and IBM stick in some of their laptops). I'm not certain that they don't require an external antenna, but they might work in a random laptop with a Mini-PCI slot, and no other preparation. The whole idea of Mini-PCI was to make the laptops a little more modular, and let laptop makers get new features to market quicker, after all.

    --
    --Matthew