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Hackers: Uncle Sam Wants You!
scraemondaemon writes: "A new TV public service announcement targets U.S. computer hacktivists with a blunt message: Uncle Sam wants you to help fight the war on terrorism. They demonize you and criminalize you and then ask for your help. What's a hacker to do?"
Frankly, I was hoping that there'd be an opportunity for those of us who are old and/or out of shape to do something more to help the war effort than just giving blood. I can't shoot for beans, but I can run cables and configure routers and code and so on and so on. I'd love to do something meaningful.
This is really the greatest recruitment campaign ever! If the Govt wants to let the hacker go, but doesn't want to risk them breaking into their former boss' company, label them a terrorist and have them serve 50 years. Before trial.
If the hacker is hired by someone else, then their current bosses are "harboring a terrorist" and have two choices - let them go, or go to jail themselves. Again, that's a no-brainer for most bosses.
Since hackers tend to be more into the craft than martyrdom, the consequences are painfully obvious. Every single highly-skilled computer geek under the sun will switch to working for the US Government, under duress and with their new boss under NO obligation to honor any kind of ethical standard. The risks of not doing so are just too high for most people.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
While the superficial similarities between rewarding spook hackers and punishing civilian hackers seem sufficient to establish gross hypocrisy on the part of the Federal government, it's in fact little different from the time-honored tradition of our military and other militaries which, for aeons, have hired people to commit the same act of killing that would be punished as murder if it had been committed by a civilian acting without state authorization. Big deal.
What's more, the Sixth Amendment's "double jeopardy" clause is still in effect (one of the few clauses with some teeth left in it after decades of judicial erosion). If the Federal government establishes an arrangement whereby criminal acts are committed by individuals acting under government aegis and with the encouragement of state agents, then those acts cannot be subsequently punished (apart from certain situations such as genocide and other circumscribed offenses). One only need remind oneself of Whitey Bulger (on the FBI's most wanted list) who has gotten the FBI into a bit of a morass by acting as an informant for many years and during those years receiving tacit permission from the FBI to commit all manner of offenses including murder. The egg on the FBI's face hangs pendulously, because the FBI is now without legal recourse to punish those acts.
That glib tone is unbecoming, by the way.
One of my major beef's with the Linux community in general has been their fanatical anti .gov and .mil views. I've always thought of it as being
unpatriotic to bring down the net, via dos attacks, defacing a .gov website. Or
just generally being an asshole to anyone who is running a Redmond product on
their desktop. This
issue of wired does a pretty good job of summarizing all the "bad
stuff" that has plagued this community. Really take the time to read
the article and understand it before you start tossing flames.
With that said, I think this is a great oppertunity for the linux scene in general to get a chance to grow out of their stereotype, and actually become the hero's of the computing world, heck the world. It's all about putting your money where your mouth is. Imagine seeing a story like this in the news..
Dec, 31st 2001, San Francisco CA
Nuclear disaster was averted new years eve when a group of hackers listening in on alphanumeric pager transmission foiled a plot by the teleban to detonate a nuclear bomb in the middle of the cities finacial district. Working with the FBI and the CIA
I'm gonna stop because thats fantasy at this point, but IT COULD HAPPEN. If you are a patriotic american, and you care about linux, you need to step up to the plate and give the .gov a hand. Instead of making fun of
their shortcomings. Remember, this could change everything.
--Toq
Turing's work saved countless thousands of lives, and was instrumental in developing the theories of modern mathematics and computer science.
But, that wasn't good enough for the British, who later killed him for being a homosexual..
This is why the possibility of a draft wouldn't worry me too much. If I was ever actually drafted to fight in a war, I know the DOD would rather have a talented computer programmer than another warm body in the front lines. Besides, it takes 3 years to train a soldier to do his (or her) job well. Why waste training on combat situations when I'm better used for hacking?
That said, I'm still not in favor of a draft. It's a huge drain on public support.
-Ted
Vint Cerf was interviewed on NPR's Public Interest yesterday. You can listen to it in RealAudio here. He makes a great case for how the Internet was put its first real test of the original intention of using packet switching, which was to ensure a reliable method of communication in the event of an enemy attack here on US soil - and passed the test pretty well, with the exception of some of the major media sites being slashdotted.
He is joined by George Sadowski, Executive Director of the Global Internet Policy Initiative, GIPI.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
The FBI and CIA have been known to do turnabouts on hackers. Just ask Max Vision. The gov't fought long and hard to demonize and criminalize even the whitest hats of hacking, and Ashcroft's pushing to get them labeled as terrorist acts on top of that.
The DoD's had it's fair share of smudged histories. Be Alert. Keep your pistol handy.
Yes, you can be useful in combatting terrorism. Just make sure you know where the line is getting drawn and be on the correct side of it.
And realize that some of combatting terrorism may go against projects you've been supporting, like anonymous remailers, strong crypto for everyone, anti-censorship protections, and the elusive set of projects working to enable dissidents in countries such as China to safely communicate with the outside world. These and other tools can also be used by the bad guys, and will no doubt become targets.
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
hmmm... laughed at this comment at first, but then something struck me. If the government is serious about finding legitimate hackers to help, they may have to offer some sort of benefit to them. Really, this is not a joke...the gov does not want an army of kiddies who don't know shit about computers and infiltration other than running other people's code. They're gonna want the best of the best (if they are serious about launching some sort of information attack). These people probably all have very time consuming jobs and may not necessarily want to start virtual freedom fighting for their country (grandiose assumption).
I guess my point is that the government may want to consider a benefit for someone who volunteers their time. I know that the righteous argument is that everyone should want to help/fight for their country, but we all know that this is clearly not the case. If we want the best, we may need to offer something in return
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson
using this line of reasoning, the government and the church will then persecute us after we have become surplus.
There was an article a few days ago posted here that the Justice Department wants Congress to pass John Ashcroft's proposed 'Anti-Terrorist Act' that would treat hacking as a form of terrorism.
Is it just me or does this sound like a stab in the back to provoke hackers into the open, then after they have done the work the US Govt would like them to do, jail them for breaking this so-called Anti-Terrorism Act (ATA)?
-- M
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
except most criminals could get out due to this kind of arrest being called entrapment. Only if they are legimately giving away a prize may that do such a thing. I heard of some cops sending out free baseball tickes to one parcular game to a bunch of convicted DUI people with suspended licenses. Anyone who didn't show up in a taxi/bus/passenger vehicle (driving without a license) was arrested on the spot. All the other guys got to go to the game.
I don't really mind double posts on
You think they'd have messed with 767's if they had nukes? This isn't a game.
You think they'd have done anything at all if the CIA, through Pakistan's ISI, hadn't trained them to be extremists? Like you said, this isn't a game - I just wish states and their "intelligence" arms would realize that next time someone involved with them feels like installing a military junta or training "freedom fighters" to "uphold policy". Nations in both East and West are guilty of this, and until these deadly cloak-and-dagger games of subversion and manipulation stop, there will be more incidents involving "blowback," where innocent civilians - like WTC employees, and women in Afghanistan - get caught in the crossfire of others who should know better.
And you wonder why people trust their governments less and less...
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
The government's philosophy has been that if patriotism isn't incentive enough, you probably aren't trustworthy enough. If it takes money to get you to work for our government, then theoretically, money could just as easily get you to work for an opposing government or entity. That said, they do pay comparable rates of a job in the civilian sector, but don't expect to get rich.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
This is similar to the police stings you hear about from time to time (at least in the movies) where known felons are contacted in large groups and told they have won some attractive prize; all who show up are promptly arrested.
Not that anybody will be arrested as a result of dialing 1-800-usa-hack to sign up, but if you think a job offer is going to be the result as opposed to an immediate phone tap and lots of extra attention on your ip address, you are sadly deluded...
Actually, this is a worse joke than either of you realize... Bin Laden's organization is called Al-Qaeda, which translates to "The Base"...
Why are some geeks such whiners. Here's an anology which might help. If you drive your car on the freeway at 120 mph they will demonize you and criminalize you. If you drive 200 mph on a race track and win races they will cheer you and pay you lots of money. Can you see the difference? Do you understand? Take the tin foil hat off for a while and join humanity.
The English tried this before... giving ships the right to be privateers, attack their opponents, and keep the loot. When the war ended, the government took back the permission, and pirates were born.
They were extremists already, we just toaught them to be more efficient and effective during a time (the Cold War era) when "the enemy of my enemy" was my friend. Shortly after the WTC/Pentagon attacks one of the previous administration's policy men (sorry, I don't remember who) hit the nail on the head when he said (paraphrasing here) that walking away from Afghanistan after the Soviet withdrawal was clearly one of the worst mistakes the west had ever made.
One would hope we learn from this...
"Melt the ice; eat the moose; drill the oil; get it over with." -Max Boot
You know the drill: They have a bunch of felons at large. Rather than try to serve warrants on them singly, they just send out a mailer. "Congratulations! You'vewon tickets to the Superbowl! Now all you have to do to claim your prize is show up at the stadium on such and such a date and get your picture taken!" And the dumb 'cons' fall for it every time... So go ahead, send them your resumes. Then they'll know where you live and can drag you in for questioning any time they want.
Besides, is this something you want to be supporting?
You're using her as bait, Master!
I saw a letter about this in the most recent (summer 2001, p. 52) issue of 2600. It is as follows...
"Dear 2600: I was going to send you an e-mail two weeks ago stating that we should channel many of our frustrations with the U.S. justice system toward our adversaries, i.e., China. All of us in the U.S. hacker community are still U.S. citizens. Let us not completely denounce our country. We can utilize our special skills in a constructive manner that is conducive to U.S. information warfare policy. Later, we may use this as legal leverage for future legislation. -ICFN PMP
*response* As one of many such messages we got from the Navy, let us remind you that hackers are not soldiers and are far too individualistic and free-thinking to buy into jingoistic nonsense, regardless of the source. You should seriously consider the effects of reducing hackers to the equivalent of some kind of weapon. It will only increase paranoia and fear. And we find it extremely telling that the authorities, the media, and apparantly a whole lof of people in the military feel it's OK to vandalize sites if it's done for nationalistic purposes."
(As an aside, there's an interesting picture of an Ewok holding a rifle behind the article)
It would seem quite hypocritical for us (typical /. posters), who are so against Big Brother poking his nose into our business to turn right back around and do EXACTLY the same thing to other members of the US public. I seriously doubt "fighting terrorism" involves busting into a secret (insert arabic country here) computer and taking vital military plans. Rather, it will involve spying on your neighbors and seeking internal 'threats,' probably in ways which violate the 4th amendment to the constitution.
A different kind of animal
If you wish to attract really good hackers you do not even think about discussing filtering software. Hackers hate corporate bs and I am sure a porn manhunt is not high on the list either. I went and took a look at the site because I quickly considered joining. As soon as I had gone through the fist page I left the site, total bs....
I am sure they will get their fill of wannabe VB Programmers quickly!
-Bob
I know that there have been a lot of movies that have portraid hackers to be the bad guys, but there have also been some shows that portray them as the good guys. Independance day where he hacked the enemy and blew up the mother ship. The movie hackers where they saved the oiltanker. I think one of the big reasons that hackers got such a bad rap was that movie with mathew brodrick in it that portraid hackers as bad guys and the goverment was trying to lock them up, rather than getting his help.
Now being a war vetran myself (Desert Storm), I can tell you that if the goverment wants to recruit hackers then I'd say that is probably the best way to serve your country. You would probably not have to fire a gun, you could do what you like, and if htey are understanding and don't get in your way (hahaha) then you can pretty much write your own ticket at that point. Anyway I'd do it, if I were a hacker.
Only 'flamers' flame!
Translation, "Script kiddies and trolls put down your keyboards." Not a bad thing to ask, and the appeal to patriotism is nice too. The message is consistent with others, such as making DOS attacks and cracks a terrorist offense with a real death penalty. "Doodz, you got the death penalty?", not to funny anymore and much less nice.
You don't really think the US government wants to hire out 10,000 script kiddies do you? What, with every CS teacher, National Lab researcher and defense contractor willing to jump right in the US has no shortage of computer operators. OK, they might use one or two. Warrez operators please report to the office of cracker mobilization right next door to the Imigration and Nationalization Free Refridgerator Service Office for Illegal Aliens.
Give it up, bitches! Turn off your crack bots and behave. Carry out useful and constructive protests instead. In the end, survival is cultural victory, so build up rather than tear down.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Bingo. Turing served a government that demonized him.
Hackers shouldn't provide the same blind devotion. If the US Government really wants help from hackers, the first thing the US Government can do is STOP DEMONIZING THE HACKERS! Drop the DMCA, drop the case against Dmitry, drop the new laws being introduce that criminalize the use of a computer for everything but shopping on eBay, and GIVE US SOME GUARANTEES THAT OUR FREEDOMS WILL BE PROTECTED!
If the US Government wants our aid, they need to make efforts to indicate their good faith towards us. And they have a LOT of catching up to do.
I'll be the biggest patriot you've ever seen when the Liberty this country is supposed to stand for is restored to me. It is Liberty that makes the country great, not the fact that it happens to be (out of some random chance) where I was born, live, and work.
And this is his first volley.
How? Modern democracies can't appear to be too draconian in the treatment of segments of their own population. So the first step in the battle is to pave the way for the coming clampdown. Take control of the vocabulary surrounding the issue. Spin, spin, spin, until you have reframed the debate. Make a distinction between 'good' hackers and 'evil' black hat hackers. And make sure that the masses of your population have bought into this.
Now you can maintain your pretext of being a fair, just and rational government. You have clearly acknowledged that only some hackers are evil. Because even the masses understand that not all hackers can be bad. So now you have eliminated the "the government is being too extreme, too narrowminded" objection that its citizens are so sensitive to.
Then, let the games begin. Clamp down all you want. Resistance and claims of civil liberties infringments will be much easier to fluster your way through when you can point to the false duality you have spun: [GOV] "Hey, we're not the bad guys here. Were helping our citizens out. Were only getting rid of the evil hackers."
It's a great little sleight of hand. Because who would disagree that evil hackers must be fought? (You might disagree with what the punishment should be or what qualifies as evil, but once you decide what actions you believe are evil, or malicious or whatever, then, by definition, you are pointing at something that you don't think is good).
Want to see if you can find evidence that this might be the case? Just watch how the they discuss this issue over the coming weeks and months. What words do they use? What phrases and metaphors are used to describe hackers and the controversy? Is there repeated focus on the distinction between the good and the bad hackers? Is the spin consistent in creating fear and suspicion of hackers who don't wrear their goodness and patriotism on their sleeves? If so it's most reasonable to conclude that the war has begun and uncle Sam has announced his intention to get medieval on hackers.
Not so sure? Just look at how declaring a group to be terrorist has become grounds to annihilate it. Once a group is declared terrorist, the government has the overwhelming support of its citizens in combatting it. That is a phenomenal display of unity. It provides to the government an almost absolute power to deal with those groups it declares to be terrorists. With it comes the danger of corrupted abuse of that power. Who gets to decide which organizations are added to the terrorist list? How many groups on this list are completely unrelated, in deed and in action, to the other groups on the list. Yet we are encouraged to think of them as a single group. Whose to say that evil hackers won't be declared terrorists as well?
NateKid said: If you let one bombing change your opinions about ANYTHING (other than stiffer package checks at the airport), Osama Bin Laden has completely won. The poiont of terrorism is to instill terror in civilians and in your case it looks like they've succeeded.
Some have said that allowing the attacks to change the way we think is wrong, and I think that argument is flawed.
People are more grateful for the good things they have and grateful for those who have survived. They are more aware of the world they live in, aware that vigilance is necessary and that freedom is not always easy.
Not learning anything from events is a backward step in evolution.
Humans attempt to learn, to improve ourselves, it's what we do.
And that includes improvements in airport security *and* gratitude replacing taken-for-granted attitudes towards the police.
fosh said: Sure, the government may have "demonized" us before.
Putting aside the past mistakes of the police when they ask for your help (showing that you in fact can help and are capable) is putting aside pettiness for something more important, something constructive.
Pettiness begets fighting and achieves very little.
Maybe not all cops are heroes, but very little in this world is absolute. Be grateful for the good things you have and do what you can to change the bad things, without becoming bad yourself.
If you want to improve the police force, do something positive like joining it and doing it right.
That's odd, I was fairly sure that bin Laden's beliefs prevented him from keeping his money in banks, because they pay interest and interest is evil. I guess if he can pervert Islam into blowing up buildings with planes, he can have his money in a bank... but that does seem very uncharacteristic of him.