Slashdot Mirror


Consumer Hydrogen Fuel Cells

axis-techno-geek writes: "Ballard Power Systems of Vancouver, BC (in Canada, eh), has stated that it will start production this friday of their consumer level Nexa(tm) hydrogen fuel cell (article here). The power module generates up to 1200 watts of unregulated DC electrical power that can keep going as long as it is supplied with hydrogen, and produces no toxic by-products (i.e. you can use it in your home). They also have plans for a 250kW unit. No price as of yet."

8 of 518 comments (clear)

  1. Not ready for primetime by pbryan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hydrogen seems like a neat way to store and transfer energy. It's a pure, simple, easy to transport, easy to extract form of energy.

    However, there are number of issues that makes the short-term outlook for hydrogen difficult to justify running out and buying your own fuel cell...

    In order to manufacture hydrogen in any meaningful quantity, "toxic" (environmentalist definition) by-products are an inevitable. To wit:

    1. Electrolytic conversion from water requires electricity. The vast amount of electricity generated comes from icky dirty coal.

    2. Extraction of hydrogen from fossil fuels still generates some toxic pollutants, and is still in relatively early stages of development.

    No matter how meaningful quantities hydrogen are generated, greenheads will hate the fact that mother earth will incur vast amounts of greenhouse gases.
    Shall we address the infrastructure problems associated with hydrogen? The costs of retooling fuel distribution channels to handle hydrogen?

    Another issue conveniently ignored is the storage of hydrogen. Hydrogen, in its current form, is not particularly dense, requiring large tanks to store the equivalent energy stored in fossil fuels.

    In the future, wind and/or solar power could provide the greenhouse gas-free hydrogen generation alternative to make it a sound fuel source from an environmentalist standpoint.

    Advances in storage mediums, extraction and distribution should one day make hydrogen an exceptional fuel.

    --

    My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!

  2. NOT dangerous.. by mindstrm · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes, Hydrogen can burn, when it reaches appropriate fuel/air mixture.. just like many other chemicals.

    Propane or Natural gas are more dangerous than hydrogen.

    Everyone thinks hydrogen is severely dangerous because of the Hindenberg disaster... which modern science attributes NOT to the hydrogen in the blimp.. but to the canvas covering of the ship that was, unbeknownst to them at the time, coated in a reflective paint made of SOLID ROCKET FUEL (they did not know that aluminum-oxide and some other chemicals were explosive)
    The hindenberg got screwed up because a spark ignited the coating... which quickly spread across the whole ship.

    Another fact.. people report seeing huge orange flames billowing from it.. but hydrogen burns as an almost invisible blue flame.... of course, the hydrogen added to the fire... but wasn't the cause.

  3. Re:Fuel cells are the way to go, but... by Junks+Jerzey · · Score: 5, Informative

    Unfortunately the hydrogen problem's not solved yet... Would people feel OK if they've got a highly flammable and explosive gas cannister in their home?

    You mean as oppposed to having natural gas piped into their home that would fill the house with gas if the pilot light just happened to go out while you on vacation? Tens of millions of families are living with this every day.

  4. Re:Fuel cells are the way to go, but... by Walter+Wart · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's really not bad, certainly less dangerous and less explosive than the propane tanks and natural gas we have learned to accept. Much less so than tanks full of gasoline.

    The most famous evidence of the unacceptable dangers of hydrogen was the Hindenburg explosion. A close look at the film shows some interesting results. The hydrogen went up (literally). The huge fire was caused by the diesel from the engines burning.

    Then too, you have to consider "normal accidents" as well as the flashier exceptional ones. Burning hydrocarbons produce things link carbon monoxide. Not good. Very poisonous. Very insidious. Burning hydrogen produces water vapor. Much less nasty.

    Of course, if you get your hydrogen by electrolyzing water and use electricity from burning fossil fuels you are still producing unpleasant stuff. But smokestacks are easier to track down and fit with scrubbers and other anti-pollution devices.

    --
    The man who never alters his opinion is like the stagnant water and breeds Reptiles of the Mind -- William Blake
  5. It's not magic and it's not usable tomorrow by maggard · · Score: 5, Informative
    Coupla basic points:

    • The fuel cells are fueled from "... methanol, natural gas, petroleum or renewable sources." That means this isn't some magic battery one can plug in anywhere.
    • The price has not been announced but it's predicted to be high, possibly very high. Also nobody has said anything yet about TCO - how much regular maintenance will this require, what about consumables, what's the duty cycle and what's the lifetime.
    • These are competing with established power generating systems. It has the advantage the it's not producing anything directly toxic (though I wonder about the various nasties already in it's fuel, it's not like the sulphers and all just go poof) but same as they it requires an infrastructure.
    • Local codes will have to be updated to recognize these, insurance companies will need to set premiums, fueling and venting and all of the other standards and bits of bureaucracy will need to be done. You may well be able to buy one of these reasonably soon, just not use it legitimately.
    • On the other hand (and this is a common myth where folks always bring up the Hindenburg) hydrogen isn't inherently any more dangerous then any other energy-rich fuel. Indeed it's probably slightly safer as it's lighter then air and so doesn't "pool" and become concentrated.

    --
    I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
  6. powerball.net by jms · · Score: 5, Informative

    Many people are commenting about the difficulty of storing and transporting hydrogen gas. Here's a company with an interesting idea:

    powerball.net

    Their idea is to use a low-pressure tank filled with water and "powerballs" -- small plastic covered spheres of sodium hydride.

    When the system wants to create more hydrogen gas, it uses a mechanical cutter to cut one of the powerballs in half. The sodium hydride instantly reacts with the water in the tank, producing sodium hydroxide and hydrogen (and a fair amount of heat):

    NaH + H2O --> NaOH + H2 gas

    When all of the sodium hydride spheres are used up, the result is a tank full of sodium hydroxide. The tank is then returned to their factory, where the sodium hydroxide is converted back into sodium hydride, so there's no waste stream from the process.

    The cool thing about this system is that the hydrogen is stored and transported in solid form -- as metal hydride spheres, so you don't have the danger of high-pressure hydrogen to work with. The hydrogen is generated as needed at low pressure.

    The site hasn't been updated in a while, so I have no idea if they've successfully brought a product to market, but I thought that this was a really interesting idea, and it would probably work fairly well with these sorts of fuel cells.

  7. GE Homegen by jmichaelg · · Score: 5, Informative
    General Electric has been advertising a 7KW home fuel cell for over a year now at their homegen website The unit is ostensibly being built for GE by Plug Power but apparently they've run into some difficulties. The product was supposed to be on market by this past summer - in fact New Jersey Power has been touting the fuel cell for delivery.

    Unfortunately, the latest word is next summer at the earliest. Plug Power reported a $30 mil loss as of their past fiscal year and their press releases talk more about financial transactions rather than actual sales or product delivery so things aren't looking all that great for GE or Plug Power's offering right now.

    What's worse for Plug Power is their initial offering doesn't take advantage of the fact that the fuel cell produces hot water as a waste product. Were they to design the unit to feed the hot water to a water heater, the fuel cell efficiency would be greater than 70%. Supposedly, the water capture feature won't appear until the second generation offering which makes you wonder who would buy the first one - especially at $15k a pop.

    By coincidence, Chevron Oil in San Ramon, CA fired up their 200 KW unit today for the first time. That puppy set them back $850,000 or around $4,250 per KW. More info is available at
    SF Chronicle.

    Notice the odd ratios - The Chevron unit that's real and online cost about twice what GE's not-available unit is supposed to come in at. Maybe there's a hint there as to why Plug Power can't deliver.

  8. Re:More, Not ready for primetime by Boulder+Geek · · Score: 5, Informative
    Not true! Solar panels are currently nasty silicon things made with all sorts of toxins. That would be OK if they would last forever, but they are generally on the five year plan.

    Modern solar panels have 20 year warrantees.

    Mirror/boiler schemes show more promise, but scraping togeter megawats from 22 watts per square meter is not easy and pilots worry they will be blinded flying over them!

    The solar energy density at the Earth's surface is approximately 1000W/m^2, not 22W/m^2. The latter figure is for a particularly inefficient solar panel, say one from 20+ years ago.

    Flying over a mirror/boiler facility shouldn't be much of an issue, because the mirrors are pointed at the boiler, not straight up.

    You did not mention biomass conversion as an indirect solar, but corn was made for eating!

    Thousands of tons of organic matter suitable for generating methanol or methane are produced and collected in our cities every day in the form of sewage and food waste. All we have to do is collect it.

    --
    A well-crafted lie appears unquestionable - Dama Mahaleo