Slashdot Mirror
A Quick Look At Mac-On-Linux
Travis Emslander writes: "They have an article about Mac on Linux over at MaximumLinux.org. I didn't even know this project existed but it looks like you can run any MacOS app (not including MacOS X apps of course) on a PPC machine with it. I'm starting to wish I had a mac to try this stuff." Here are some more screenshots. I saw MoL demonstrated over a year ago (when OS X wasn't really an issue) and was amazed at how quickly it ran. Anyone out there using it on a day-to-day basis?
Great, now I can run Linux, MacOS and Linux all at the same time. Is there anything greater?
... is what niche this fills with OS X around. A year ago, there was simply no way to get MacOS functionality on a Unix (/Linux, etc.) system except with either MOL or that horribly expensive proprietary Unix for Macs (sorry, can't remember the name.) These days, OTOH, a powerful and MacOS-compatible Unix is, in fact, well, what you get when you buy a Mac.
To be fair, there are a lot of older Macs out there that don't have the horsepower for OS X but would do just fine as Linux boxes, and I can see MOL being useful for them. With new iMacs so cheap, though, how long will that be true?
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Actually, there allready is a project called MACE.
/Svenne
The name "Mace" is an acronym for Macintosh Application Compatibility Environment. Thanks to Simon Biber for coming up with that acronym. The name "Mace" originally came from MACintosh Emulator, which wasn't entirely accurate, as Mace does not emulate a Macintosh, instead it emulates the Macintosh Operating System and Toolbox (the ROM) resulting in the ability to run Macintosh software.
MACE homepage
Slagborr
I think the idea is that you can have both OSes running at the same time without rebooting. The other idea (and why it's so fast) is that it's not emulation of hardware. That will always be slower than if it was on PPC.
F-bacher
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
I use MOL on my Lombard Powerbook at work. It has to be one of the most clever and most useful PPC linux apps that was ever written. It is _extremely_ fast with respect to emulation because it isn't really emulation at all; the PPC calls are all native. No need to translate PPC calls to x86 like you would when running VirtualPC on a Mac.
:)
The only problem I've had of late is that the network device stops working after about three hours but I just kill MOL and restart it. From past experience with MacOS, rebooting every three hours is often necessary anyway
All in all, an excellent program. And its not so much that it allows you to run MacOS programs under Linux, ala MacOS emulators for Windoze - it is a complete virtual PPC machine within a PPC machine.
My laptop has YellowDog Linux 2.0 on it but I also ran MOL on Debian unstable for awhile with good success. I also run it at home on my Apple Network Server - I was able to install MacOS from scratch using MOL by setting the boot device to the CD.
Mac-on-Linux is akin to VMware - it runs Mac code natively on PPC processors by virtualizing the underlying hardware. It is amazingly powerful and the last I was hearing on the MOL lists is that OS X support will be back soon (yes, it was there when OS X was in its infancy, since then, a few changes in OS X have broken things in MOL). With Mac OS 9.x (and earlier), however, MOL is solid as a rock. I can run days, even weeks without any instability - eventually, though, Photoshop or something else will cause me to reboot MacOS.
If anyone's been scared to try out Linux on a PPC machine, for fear of losing MacOS, check out Mac-on-Linux ... you'll have it to fall back on in case you get stuck in Linux. Most PPC Linux distros that I know of ship with Mac-on-Linux, so getting it running should be a snap. If you have any problems, the MOL mailing lists are amazingly helpful, often times Sam Rydh, the creator/maintainer of MOL will post responses himself.
FYI - sound works great, but video acceleration is lacking (much like VMware). USB support is also not there (yet) - but, if your device is seen in Linux, you can use it in MOL.
I run YellowDog Linux on my Titanium G4 notebook. Why? Performance is *excellent*, plus the notebook ain't to shabby to look at. Extra wide screen, good hardware integration. Works for me. In fact, every year I've attended the Ottawa Linux Symposium, I've seen more and more people lugging Apple hardware around, running Linux. We're not talking your average joe users either, but serious developer types. I seem to recall a few of the Samba fellows typing away on Powerbooks during the keynote...
MOL (Mac On Linux) is a nice tool for those that do run Linux on their Mac, yet occasionally need to boot into MacOS. It saves a reboot, and can be quite handy when you need to playback a Quicktime file, or something along those lines. I'd rather have a native Linux player of course, but since Sorenson won't disclose the codec, MOL allows me to run Linux yet still access one or two of those quirky Mac apps. ;)
As another poster mentioned, it's like VMWare for the Mac. If you can postulate a use for VMWare, then it shouldn't be too difficult to figure out why some people like MOL.
I'm more comfortable in my Linux distribution of choice than I am in OS X. I know where everything is, I have absurd amounts of software already installed (including a toolchain I didn't have to register online to obtain), and I have little need for MacOS apps. I also prefer KDE over Aqua; Though I recognize Aqua has some bells and whistles that KDE and XFree86 lack, KDE and XFree86 have far more of the bells and whistles that I use and appreciate. I'm pretty much just happier with the software on the Linux side.
As for Mac-On-Linux, I could see using it for the occasional MacOS app... sometimes such functionality is handy. And really, if it works, why not have it around?
I've seen a lot of posts on this thread asking what "the niche" is for MOL, questioning whether Linux has any value in the Mac "market" because OS X is available, etc. My only reply, really, is that maybe those posters should stop thinking like Official Linux Salesmen and Market Strategists... if it's not your thing, fine, but trying to determine the "market" for everything (especially something that's so obviously built and supported by its "market"), as if you own a piece, is silly.
Because Darwin does not add much value to the Unix/BSD world from an application developer's standpoint, the really key components of OS X are the GUI and Openstep environment (Aqua, et al.) which are closed source. Therefore, most Linux users approach OS X as a closed, proprietary system with a few open components.
It will be interesting to see how far GNUstep gets in emulating OS X (and to watch Apple turn loose the attack lawyers once they're close).
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
There it is! You now have MSIE 5 under linux. The mysterious hidden MS internet experience we all hear of (but no one can quite point to) can now be had under Linux. If it's like that dog for unix, it loads most of DOS with it. Linux to run Mac to run DOS, ahhhh! infinite regresion!
MSIE for Mac really has nothing to do with MSIE for Windows. MSIE for Mac is a decent, well-behaved Mac app, following basic Mac rules. Parts of the rendering engine may be derived from MSIE/Win source code, but most of the app was rewritten from scratch by Microsoft's Macintosh Business Unit in California. It's one of the most standards-compliant browsers available (much moreso than MSIE/Win).
A few differences:
Preferences at the bottom of the Edit menu, nice and organized, not hiding under Tools with convoluted tabs and buttons
MSIE/Mac lets you manage cookies; you can see all stored cookies in a list, show their values, delete them, etc. You can also choose which domains to accept and deny cookies from.
MSIE/Mac has its own Download Manager. All downloads are listed in one window, and they remain listed there (as a history) after downloading.
MSIE/Mac is MUCH prettier than MSIE/Win. It also includes multiple color schemes for the buttons and stuff.
Of course, it supports Internet Config, ColorSync, Location Manager and other Mac OS goodies.
It's easy to install (download and mount a disk image, drag the folder to your hard drive, launch the app) and easy to uninstall (drag the folder to the trash). To be thorough, trash some libraries in the Extensions folder, and the cache and other stuff in Preferences. MSIE/Win thinks it's part of the OS and can't be installed.
Basic features like right-clicking a graphic and selecting "Open Image In New Window" are missing from MSIE/Win. If you do open a graphic, MSIE/Mac shows you the dimensions in the title bar, like Netscape does; MSIE/Win does not. These two features come in very handy when doing Web design.
View Source shows a decent source window, in the same app (instead of launching Notepad), and it marks HTML tags in blue and comments in red. Much more readable.
Oh yeah, and it still works with Netscape plug-ins.
</RANT>
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Start Linux.
Start Mac on Linux.
Start Windows on Mac on Linux.
Start MAME on Windows on Mac.
Start Linux on Playstation on MAME on Windows on Mac.
Start VMware on Linux on Playstation on MAME on Windows on Mac...
[
Mac MSIE5 does indeed rock, but I have noticed that it chokes, and badly, on big HTML pages. For example, a big
This is on a well-tuned Pismo (400MHz G3, 320MB RAM), and I have done a lot of experimentation with memory settings and other stuff. But it's totally repeatable. Drives me nuts.