Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the we-don't-know-much dept.
Several people have reported that the US has begun military operations in Afghanistan. Bush is talking on CNN live right now. Bombing has begun on Kabul. More as we know it. Here the word
a on CNN and The CBC.
I want to convey my good wishes and thankfulness to all members of the US military and our allies as they embark on this great mission to preserve my freedom, and the freedom of the world.
Thank you.
-- Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Shit! Thank God for that. I was pretty sure the CIA must have a satellite that shows who all the really evil ones are, but thanks for confirming it.
As for God punishing those that the US targets, well buddy, don't worry too much about that. You see God is omnipotent, unlike the USA, so we can all be pretty sure he will act justly. But, hey, you gotta wonder why he lets all those innocent people die all the time. I dunno, maybe they aren't so innocent or something. Boy, this whole good/evil thing is a brain-ache. Let's just nuke 'em!!
-- -----.sig: file not found
Re:More needless loss of life.
by
Jon+Peterson
·
· Score: 2, Flamebait
WILL NOT STOP until EVERY American and American ally is DEAD. No pausing to reflect, no thoughts on peaceful resolution, EVERYONE DEAD.
That is correct. Osama Bin Laden is the terminator, crossed with the energizer bunny.
What is more, the Taliban are not actually people, instead they are fanatical monsters who will not stop until every American is dead. Come to think of it all of America's enemies are like that.
Take the Japanese. During WWII they killed innocent American civilians by suicidally crashing planes into their boats. America had to respond then with target nuclear strikes against their terror bases in the remote Nagasaki and Hiroshima regions of Japan. Those fanatical people would not stop until every American was dead. That is why even today Japanese people are constantly try to kill Americans. It just goes to show these evil men of hate will never change.
What is currently unclear though, is that when the US has military bases in Kabul, the marines will prefer gang raping little Afghan girls in their yashmaks more than those cute Japanese girls in their white socks. It's a tough one but I'm sure the US military is thinking hard about it.
-- -----.sig: file not found
Re:To Those Who Are Screaming For Vengeance
by
sheldon
·
· Score: 2, Flamebait
Even in the heart of the 1980's when we most deeply hated Iran and we accidentally shot down Air Flight 655...
We did not go out into the streets and cheer. We all paused and mourned as the reality of what we had done sunk over us.
Even though our cloaks may be grey rather than white... it is quite clear they are not black.
So do not dare to compare us with those who perpetrated the acts of 9/11.
"And we were no better than Germany when innocent civilians were killed by American bombing."
What about the innocent Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Poles, Serbians, Croats, French, Christan Scientists, Danes, Dutch that were overrun, killed, raped, gased and tortured by the Germans when the Allies did none of that?
The bombing of Germany and Japan is a bad comparison for "whos better".
Did the US or Commonwealth forces slaughter 70,000 people when they took Rome or Vienna like the Japanese did at Nanking?
No.
Did the US or Commonwealth gas 6,000,000 Germans at any point?
No.
Did the Germans bomb, burn, rape and murder a vast path across Africa and Europe?
Yes.
Did the Allies carpet bomb German and Japanese cites to slow down German and Japense industrial production, which by 1943 had been dispersed to homes and small businesses?
Yes.
Was that bombing needed?
It can be argued that it was, and that those bombings lead to a quicker end of the war and while it killed many, many Germans and Japanese, it saved many, many other people.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
I don't think our leaders had to tell us that the country was attacked. The jumbo jets flying into the skyscrapers did that just fine.
The barbarians must be destroyed.
-- Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
The start of an endless war
by
JhAgA
·
· Score: 2, Flamebait
I'm not NORTH-AMERICAN, but I think that this attack against Afghanistan will turn into a very bad thing.
We are talking about FANATICAL people. Kill them, and more will come. To attack Afghanistan will only raise their hate against American. More fanatical groups/nations can follow...
What USA expects? If they bomb montains trying to destroy the tunnels used by the terrorists, how will Americans be sure if Osama was killed or not? And, if they find it dead, there will still be dozens of Osama's followers that will be feed with anger and hate to plan even more shocking terrorists attacks.
Bomb their power plants, training camps and communication system. Ok, this will freeze Afghanistan counter-actions for a moment, but will it stop terrorists? I doubt it.
North-American citizens will turn into a paranoid society, fearing every ordinary box left aside in a metro station or building. Is that what the Americans expect? This is what we can call "end of terror" ?
I'm not (totally) against the military action against Afghanistan, but I don't see it as a solution - instead, I think that this will make things even worse in long terms.
Re:It is time...
by
mcelrath
·
· Score: 4, Flamebait
2) Engage in brief conversation, ask if military force is appropriate.
The people I know that are members of the "anti-war movement" are not opposed to military force. They're opposed to bombing the shit out of innocent, hungry refugees in tents in the desert. Multimillion-dollar cruise missile vs. tents. Incredibly silly unless it's the right tent. They're also opposed to any kind of prolonged fight against guerillas. As Vietnam, Korea, and Afghanistan in the 80's have taught us, that is not a fight we can win. The Taliban and bin Laden must be displaced or destroyed. But the people of Afganistan are as much victims of their terror as we have been. They should be our allies in this, and any military action must be directed only at the Taliban and bin Laden, and must be accompanied by humanitarian aid to the millions of refugees in the area. Secondly, we must allow the people of Afghanistan to decide the future course of their own country. Funding one militant group against another and setting up puppet governments is what got us into this situation (we funded the Taliban against the russians in the 80's), and is in general why everyone in the middle east hates our meddling butts, and I don't blame them.
The United States and its allies should stop pretending to take sides in conflicts in the region and allow them to pursue their own course. Our continued support of Isreal has been and continues to be a major sticking point for the region. But helping the other side(s) is not the solution. It's none of our fucking business.
We must protect ourselves against terrorists. But NOT by manipulating and destroying the entire region of the world that hates us. If we're not extrememly careful in our actions, we will create far more enemies in the region than we have now.
We should take a hint from post-WWII actions with Germany and Japan, who are now two of our greatest allies and economic partners. We must commit resources to the region to ensure their economic future of the region.
--Bob
-- 1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
Re:It is time...
by
megaduck
·
· Score: 4, Flamebait
I desperately want to agree with you. Really, I do. The United States has a long tradition of doing very nasty bloody things under the name of "patriotism" or "defending liberty" or what-have-you. Vietnam comes readily to mind. I really want to believe that this is one of those times when we should be casting about for an olive branch instead of a rifle, because peace is the best solution.
I really do want to agree with you, but I can't. This is one of those rare times when violence is our only option. We did not choose this conflict. We did not select whether or not to fight. Our attackers made no demands, and therefore we must assume that they wish only our destruction. You speak of our "demands on a non-negotiable billet". Our attackers did not even attempt a diplomatic solution to their grievance before slaughtering our civilians. Not only that, but they did not even give us terms by which they would stop attacks. We have been painted into a corner, and we lash out because it is our last option.
Really, what would you have us do? Doing nothing will simply cost us more lives, as the terrorist attcks continue. Continued diplomacy seems fruitless, as the Bin Laden has made his stance quite clear: His version of Islam cannot co-exist with other cultures, or even less militant versions of Islam. More to the point, he will not be sated until we have been violently subdued. He has left us no room for negotiation, and so we must fight.
War is a nasty, brutal, ugly thing. I wish to my core that we could avoid it. However, this is not the "Imperialistic U.S." slaughtering civilians to protect our "national interests". This is self-defense in a fight that we did not start.
-- This.sig for rent.
Re:It is time...
by
Auckerman
·
· Score: 3, Flamebait
"Having your own thoughts and the right to express them is one of many things that makes this country great, but there comes a time and place where you need to support your country (and military) first. So far these groups have not done anything wrong yet...I would hate to see things degrade to their status durring the Vietnam war days."
If people should not protest wars and give "support", then what exactly are we fighting for? In the end, isn't the ability to disagree and voice your opinion freely one of the main goals in "defending freedom"?
--
Burn Hollywood Burn
Re:you're exaggerating the claims
by
Velox_SwiftFox
·
· Score: 2, Flamebait
As I remember it:
Taliban: We have Bin Laden under such tight control since before the WTC attack that he couldn't use a cellphone, and he doesn't have the resources to have possibly mounted such an attack!
US: Bullshit. We've monitored his communications, and he has a quarter-billion dollar personal fortune and contributions from supporters throughout the arab world. We see his training camps on satellite.
Taliban: Uhh... Oops! We lost him! We have no idea where he is!
US: Bullshit.
Taliban: Gosh, we suddenly have him under our complete control again... uh, no, we won't turn him over to you for killing thousands of your citizens... We'll... uh... We'll try him in an Islamic court if you'll just reveal everything about how you're gathering your intelligence against him - that is, an Islamic court as the Taliban defines Islam, of course, and agree to recognize us as the legit givernment of Afghanistan, which we stole fair and square, yeah, that's the ticket....
US: Bullshit. Sorry, you had your chance...
Screw all this moral posturing
by
Phaid
·
· Score: 1, Flamebait
All of these people bashing the U.S. and claiming it's our expansionist foreign policy to blame for all this need to get a clue. If the U.S. wasn't around, you wouldn't be here to complain about it. Are you European? You'd be speaking German, and not speaking your mind. Are you from Asia or Australia? Welcome to the Japanese empire. Fifty years ago, Americans went and fought and died to keep your countries free. There wasn't a whole lot of complaining about American interventionism then.
And as for all of this supposed interventionism. Who created Israel? Who invaded Africa and China and India and Viet Nam and the Middle East and established colonies and set the stage for all of this hatred of the West? It was European colonialism, not American, that got these messes started. Yes, it's ancient history, and it really doesn't matter any more, but before you go pointing fingers at the U.S. be sure to look at your own hands. They aren't clean.
For nearly the entire twentieth century, America has sent its soldiers to fight and die to support its friends. These wars were never started by us, but it was up to us to finish them. The current conflict is no different. Once again Americans are dying for the sins of other countries. And once again, we're going to end the wars that someone else has started.
Re:It is time...
by
SubtleNuance
·
· Score: 1, Flamebait
and our government has been more than willing to resolve this situation in a peaceful matter
Give us this citizen, without any proff, or we are going to bomb you. We are going to attack all harbours of Terrorism. If you arent with us your a Terrorist.
Sounds really 'peacefull' dosnt it...
Re:It is time...
by
Sly+Mongoose
·
· Score: 1, Flamebait
Actually, they promised to hand him over to a Muslim court, presumably one with the "Not Guilty" rubber-stamp all ready and waiting.
As opposed to a Western court with the "Guilty" rubber-stamp all ready and waiting?
No, as opposed to a Western court wherein Johnny Cochran and abuncha bleeding-heart liberals will shit themselves to make sure he gets 20 hours of community service if found guilty, but preferably to see that he is declared innocent and a hero of the people.
All courts are biased, but I know which one I trust to render a fairer judgement, as opposed to delivering a rubber-stamp verdict.
In case you weren't aware of it, it is usual for trials to be held in the locale where the crime was committed, rather than in the back yard of the defendant. And I am not aware of any reason why special, preferential treatment should be granted in this particular case.
And anyway, if somebody's biased court is to be used it might as well be mine, eh?
Re:More needless loss of life.
by
greenrd
·
· Score: 1, Flamebait
So General Eisenhower is a crackpot? Read my fucking post? Are you fucking blind?
Slashdot Mirror
I want to convey my good wishes and thankfulness to all members of the US military and our allies as they embark on this great mission to preserve my freedom, and the freedom of the world.
Thank you.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Shit! Thank God for that. I was pretty sure the CIA must have a satellite that shows who all the really evil ones are, but thanks for confirming it.
As for God punishing those that the US targets, well buddy, don't worry too much about that. You see God is omnipotent, unlike the USA, so we can all be pretty sure he will act justly. But, hey, you gotta wonder why he lets all those innocent people die all the time. I dunno, maybe they aren't so innocent or something. Boy, this whole good/evil thing is a brain-ache. Let's just nuke 'em!!
-----
That is correct. Osama Bin Laden is the terminator, crossed with the energizer bunny.
What is more, the Taliban are not actually people, instead they are fanatical monsters who will not stop until every American is dead. Come to think of it all of America's enemies are like that.
Take the Japanese. During WWII they killed innocent American civilians by suicidally crashing planes into their boats. America had to respond then with target nuclear strikes against their terror bases in the remote Nagasaki and Hiroshima regions of Japan. Those fanatical people would not stop until every American was dead. That is why even today Japanese people are constantly try to kill Americans. It just goes to show these evil men of hate will never change. What is currently unclear though, is that when the US has military bases in Kabul, the marines will prefer gang raping little Afghan girls in their yashmaks more than those cute Japanese girls in their white socks. It's a tough one but I'm sure the US military is thinking hard about it.
-----
Even in the heart of the 1980's when we most deeply hated Iran and we accidentally shot down Air Flight 655...
We did not go out into the streets and cheer. We all paused and mourned as the reality of what we had done sunk over us.
Even though our cloaks may be grey rather than white... it is quite clear they are not black.
So do not dare to compare us with those who perpetrated the acts of 9/11.
"And we were no better than Germany when innocent civilians were killed by American bombing."
What about the innocent Jews, Gypsies, Russians, Poles, Serbians, Croats, French, Christan Scientists, Danes, Dutch that were overrun, killed, raped, gased and tortured by the Germans when the Allies did none of that?
The bombing of Germany and Japan is a bad comparison for "whos better".
Did the US or Commonwealth forces slaughter 70,000 people when they took Rome or Vienna like the Japanese did at Nanking?
No.
Did the US or Commonwealth gas 6,000,000 Germans at any point?
No.
Did the Germans bomb, burn, rape and murder a vast path across Africa and Europe?
Yes.
Did the Allies carpet bomb German and Japanese cites to slow down German and Japense industrial production, which by 1943 had been dispersed to homes and small businesses?
Yes.
Was that bombing needed?
It can be argued that it was, and that those bombings lead to a quicker end of the war and while it killed many, many Germans and Japanese, it saved many, many other people.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
I don't think our leaders had to tell us that the country was attacked. The jumbo jets flying into the skyscrapers did that just fine.
The barbarians must be destroyed.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
I'm not NORTH-AMERICAN, but I think that this attack against Afghanistan will turn into a very bad thing.
We are talking about FANATICAL people. Kill them, and more will come. To attack Afghanistan will only raise their hate against American. More fanatical groups/nations can follow...
What USA expects? If they bomb montains trying to destroy the tunnels used by the terrorists, how will Americans be sure if Osama was killed or not? And, if they find it dead, there will still be dozens of Osama's followers that will be feed with anger and hate to plan even more shocking terrorists attacks.
Bomb their power plants, training camps and communication system. Ok, this will freeze Afghanistan counter-actions for a moment, but will it stop terrorists? I doubt it.
North-American citizens will turn into a paranoid society, fearing every ordinary box left aside in a metro station or building. Is that what the Americans expect? This is what we can call "end of terror" ?
I'm not (totally) against the military action against Afghanistan, but I don't see it as a solution - instead, I think that this will make things even worse in long terms.
The people I know that are members of the "anti-war movement" are not opposed to military force. They're opposed to bombing the shit out of innocent, hungry refugees in tents in the desert. Multimillion-dollar cruise missile vs. tents. Incredibly silly unless it's the right tent. They're also opposed to any kind of prolonged fight against guerillas. As Vietnam, Korea, and Afghanistan in the 80's have taught us, that is not a fight we can win. The Taliban and bin Laden must be displaced or destroyed. But the people of Afganistan are as much victims of their terror as we have been. They should be our allies in this, and any military action must be directed only at the Taliban and bin Laden, and must be accompanied by humanitarian aid to the millions of refugees in the area. Secondly, we must allow the people of Afghanistan to decide the future course of their own country. Funding one militant group against another and setting up puppet governments is what got us into this situation (we funded the Taliban against the russians in the 80's), and is in general why everyone in the middle east hates our meddling butts, and I don't blame them.
The United States and its allies should stop pretending to take sides in conflicts in the region and allow them to pursue their own course. Our continued support of Isreal has been and continues to be a major sticking point for the region. But helping the other side(s) is not the solution. It's none of our fucking business.
We must protect ourselves against terrorists. But NOT by manipulating and destroying the entire region of the world that hates us. If we're not extrememly careful in our actions, we will create far more enemies in the region than we have now.
We should take a hint from post-WWII actions with Germany and Japan, who are now two of our greatest allies and economic partners. We must commit resources to the region to ensure their economic future of the region.
--Bob
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
I desperately want to agree with you. Really, I do. The United States has a long tradition of doing very nasty bloody things under the name of "patriotism" or "defending liberty" or what-have-you. Vietnam comes readily to mind. I really want to believe that this is one of those times when we should be casting about for an olive branch instead of a rifle, because peace is the best solution.
I really do want to agree with you, but I can't. This is one of those rare times when violence is our only option. We did not choose this conflict. We did not select whether or not to fight. Our attackers made no demands, and therefore we must assume that they wish only our destruction. You speak of our "demands on a non-negotiable billet". Our attackers did not even attempt a diplomatic solution to their grievance before slaughtering our civilians. Not only that, but they did not even give us terms by which they would stop attacks. We have been painted into a corner, and we lash out because it is our last option.
Really, what would you have us do? Doing nothing will simply cost us more lives, as the terrorist attcks continue. Continued diplomacy seems fruitless, as the Bin Laden has made his stance quite clear: His version of Islam cannot co-exist with other cultures, or even less militant versions of Islam. More to the point, he will not be sated until we have been violently subdued. He has left us no room for negotiation, and so we must fight.
War is a nasty, brutal, ugly thing. I wish to my core that we could avoid it. However, this is not the "Imperialistic U.S." slaughtering civilians to protect our "national interests". This is self-defense in a fight that we did not start.
This
If people should not protest wars and give "support", then what exactly are we fighting for? In the end, isn't the ability to disagree and voice your opinion freely one of the main goals in "defending freedom"?
Burn Hollywood Burn
As I remember it:
Taliban: We have Bin Laden under such tight control since before the WTC attack that he couldn't use a cellphone, and he doesn't have the resources to have possibly mounted such an attack!
US: Bullshit. We've monitored his communications, and he has a quarter-billion dollar personal fortune and contributions from supporters throughout the arab world. We see his training camps on satellite.
Taliban: Uhh... Oops! We lost him! We have no idea where he is!
US: Bullshit.
Taliban: Gosh, we suddenly have him under our complete control again... uh, no, we won't turn him over to you for killing thousands of your citizens... We'll... uh... We'll try him in an Islamic court if you'll just reveal everything about how you're gathering your intelligence against him - that is, an Islamic court as the Taliban defines Islam, of course, and agree to recognize us as the legit givernment of Afghanistan, which we stole fair and square, yeah, that's the ticket....
US: Bullshit. Sorry, you had your chance...
All of these people bashing the U.S. and claiming it's our expansionist foreign policy to blame for all this need to get a clue. If the U.S. wasn't around, you wouldn't be here to complain about it. Are you European? You'd be speaking German, and not speaking your mind. Are you from Asia or Australia? Welcome to the Japanese empire. Fifty years ago, Americans went and fought and died to keep your countries free. There wasn't a whole lot of complaining about American interventionism then.
And as for all of this supposed interventionism. Who created Israel? Who invaded Africa and China and India and Viet Nam and the Middle East and established colonies and set the stage for all of this hatred of the West? It was European colonialism, not American, that got these messes started. Yes, it's ancient history, and it really doesn't matter any more, but before you go pointing fingers at the U.S. be sure to look at your own hands. They aren't clean.
For nearly the entire twentieth century, America has sent its soldiers to fight and die to support its friends. These wars were never started by us, but it was up to us to finish them. The current conflict is no different. Once again Americans are dying for the sins of other countries. And once again, we're going to end the wars that someone else has started.
and our government has been more than willing to resolve this situation in a peaceful matter
Give us this citizen, without any proff, or we are going to bomb you. We are going to attack all harbours of Terrorism. If you arent with us your a Terrorist.
Sounds really 'peacefull' dosnt it...
All courts are biased, but I know which one I trust to render a fairer judgement, as opposed to delivering a rubber-stamp verdict.
In case you weren't aware of it, it is usual for trials to be held in the locale where the crime was committed, rather than in the back yard of the defendant. And I am not aware of any reason why special, preferential treatment should be granted in this particular case.
And anyway, if somebody's biased court is to be used it might as well be mine, eh?
Female Prison Rape in NY