What Do You Buy At The Grocery ... Punk?

fifths writes: "I'm not sure how many of you saw this story from the Scripps Howard Washington bureau -- as reported in the 'Washington Calling' column in the 10-07-2001 edition of the Knoxville(TN) News-Sentinel: 'Federal agents are tracking suspects tied to the Sept. 11 strikes through supermarket club cards that may give a hint of ethnic tastes. "Time was, this data was so disorganized nobody could make sense of it, but not anymore. They're looking for people based on their supermarket tastes," says consultant Larry Ponemon, head of the Privacy Council business consortium.' Anyone else bothered by this? Burn your supermarket cards." Better yet, trade your supermarket cards, frequently. (Perhaps with friends or relatives in the furthest city with the same chain?) Maybe Larry Ellison would like to have a few.

Comments

Card Trading

[waldoj]

I have no idea of where my supermarket cards came from. You know how when you sign up, they give you a few? I've gotten friends to give me all of my cards. Whenever, in conversation, topic turns to shopping, I explain why these are Bad Things(tm), and suggest that card-swapping would help. We always swap cards, and they're always eager to do so with others. It's not just me -- my whole family actually does this, and many of my friends now. And some people that I tell about this say that they already know about it, which makes me feel a bit like going to a strange town and finding out that there's already a fight club.

Anyhow, yes, trade away! Destroy their databases and go buy some ethnic food. It'll be fun.

-Waldo

Don't play the game

[rgmoore]

Better yet, trade your supermarket cards, frequently. (Perhaps with friends or relatives in the furthest city with the same chain?) Maybe Larry Ellison would like to have a few.

An even better idea is simply to avoid the cards in the first place. Accepting the card is essentially selling the store your profiling information for a discount. It's sleazy to break your half of the bargain by deliberately contaminating their data while expecting them to keep to their side by continuing to provide discounts. If you hate the things so much just refuse to accept one and pay cash (so that they can't track purchases by credit card number). Even better, skip the whole game by shopping at a store like Trader Joe's that refuses to have such a program in the first place.

Re:Don't play the game

[camusflage]

It's sleazy to break your half of the bargain by deliberately contaminating their data while expecting them to keep to their side by continuing to provide discounts.

It's even sleazier to jack up the prices on items and offer "discounts" for people who use the cards when the discounted price is what the retail price should be. One rather nasty example of this that I saw recently was where a commodity item (a tube of toothpaste) was marked "Buy One Get One Free" with the card, where the price for the single unit was twice what comparable brands were selling for.

Re:Don't play the game

[funkman]

So trying to get customer loyalty is a bad thing? Because that is the purpose of the discount cards. While the cards do profile you - how do you expect to get customers to keep coming to your store if you can't track them?

Re:Don't play the game

[camusflage]

So trying to get customer loyalty is a bad thing?

No, it's not. What is a bad thing is dicking over people who don't use them (me) by jacking up the prices and offering "discounts" that bring the price back in line.

how do you expect to get customers to keep coming to your store if you can't track them?

How about this for a novel concept: Sell things for an everyday low price. When lowered market demand or locally prevailing conditions dictate, offer a discounted price (the pros sometimes call this "a sale").

I know that grocery is a horrible business to be in. You're operating on a 1-3% margin. Forcing consumers to chose between getting fucked over privacy-wise (for those who submit to being profiled) or getting fucked over financially (by not getting the ephemeral "discounts", and paying the artificially inflated price) is what is wrong about the cards.

If it was about loyalty, then all the cards would track is that you were in the store, and perhaps what you spent. If it was about profit (from the data), then the cards would record who you are, where you live, what you buy, and when you buy it. They can't yet track what made you buy it (or, should I say, not anymore--cuecat), but once cheap cybernetic links are available, I'm sure they'll offer the same "discounts" for them as well.

Re:Don't play the game

[camusflage]

You're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. For most consumers, it's about the Benjamins (or whoever is on your money wherever you may be). Myself, I'll sacrifice some on price for service. There's a small grocery local to me. Sure, it costs more, but I'll buy my non-commodity items there because they're a higher quality.

Re:Don't play the game

[rgmoore]

It's even sleazier to jack up the prices on items and offer "discounts" for people who use the cards when the discounted price is what the retail price should be.

So find a store that doesn't do that. I do almost all of my shopping at Trader Joe's. They're admittedly not a fully national chain, but they are moderately widespread now. They also have the advantage of offering more interesting food than most supermarkets, rather than just the offerings of the big companies. Part of the reason that they don't bother with a card program is that they have no strong commitment to keeping a consistent stock on their shelves, instead focusing on finding things that give their customers good value. It's much less useful to track purchasing habits when the nature of the stock in the store tends to minimize habitual buying in the first place.

If you want a conventional supermarket, ISTR that Albertsons doesn't have a card program, and is proud to announce it. They apparently feel that enough people are bothered by the card process that they can help their market position by refusing to be involved. If the whole process of using the cards is offensive to you, stop doing business with the people who use the cards, and start doing business with people who refuse to do so. It's a much stronger and more reliable way of avoiding being tracked than trying to gum up the card system.

Re:Don't play the game

[sulli]

Buy somewhere that offers an everyday low price then. Such places exist, patronize them! (Wal-Mart, for example, doesn't do much in the way of discounts - of course, you have to drive way out in the burbz to find one.)

Find a local grocery that *doesn't* use cards

[ShaunC]

Few things bother me more than the idea that I should have to use what amounts to an ID card to shop for groceries. Most of the grocery stores here use these cards, and if you don't present one, you end up paying higher prices. I say that's bullshit. It's nothing more than marketing tactics - so that your local grocer can sell product oriented customer lists to other companies - and (sigh) most people have no problem handing their information over.

Obvious privacy implications aside, I shouldn't have to identify myself in order to get a good price on a pound of hamburger or a can of shaving cream. Nor should the grocery chain know my shopping history; what I bought last week is none of their business. The way I see it, their job is to keep track of inventory, stock what sells, and don't stock what doesn't. They do not need to know my [name|address|phone|mother's maiden name|last 6 months' purchases] in order to do that.

We've been protesting Radio Shack's attempts to gather this information for years, why are we breaking down and giving it up to the grocery stores? Kroger and Albertson's (let alone the FBI) have no more business associating me with the purchase of my weekly consumptions than Radio Shack has associating me with the purchase of a particular transistor. But while Radio Shack will let you slide, the grocery store will charge you a higher price if you don't have a card dangling from your keychain, ready to submit your every demographic to their database.

So I do my grocery shopping at the locally owned chain, which doesn't even issue a card much less require one (and proudly advertises that fact in their commercials). I also do a lot of shopping at drug stores instead of grocery stores. I've found that Rite-Aid's prices are lower than any of the grocery chains on several products, including both cigarettes and beer! I save about $5/carton of Camels and $3/case of Bud by getting 'em at the drug store. Over the course of a year, that adds up, especially considering how much I smoke and drink...

Not to mention the fact that there's a community aspect at the drug stores that you just won't find at the grocery stores, since the employee turnaround at the drug stores isn't nearly as high. I know the people at Walgreens and Rite-Aid by name, and they know mine, because the same folks have been there for years. When the local Walgreens moved to a new building, the manager actually tipped me off about the opening time so that I could be the first customer at the new location, thus winning several cases of carbonated beverages and getting my photo posted for all eternity in the staff break room. But if I go to Kroger I rarely see the same cashier twice, and I sure don't get to know them.

Bottom line, vote with your dollars. Refuse to shop at the stores where you can only get the low price with an ID card. The savings is not worth sacrificing your privacy, apparently to the government as well as the corporate interest, especially if there's a reasonably affordable alternative. Keep your money and your business - both your private business and your financial business - in the hands of someone who will respect it.

Shaun

Re:Find a local grocery that *doesn't* use cards

[Technician]

I found there is a cost to the database, which is of course passed along to consumers. (Serious now, who do you think pays for it?) I have found out long ago that most stores that do not have the program have lower average prices all the time. It just isn't worth the trip to the high priced store just to see what the K-mart style special item is this week. I save lots more elsewhere without the cost of the database program added to the cost of the products. I quit shopping Safeway because the noticable differance in the bottom line. A 3.50 item with a savings of .75 is still more than the same item at 2.50 elsewhere.

Re:Find a local grocery that *doesn't* use cards

[camusflage]

Not to mention the fact that there's a community aspect at the drug stores that you just won't find at the grocery stores

Yanno, I was with you right up until this one. In case you hadn't noticed, there aren't any owner/operator pharmacies anymore. I know it's just business, but to say that there's a "community aspect" to chain drug stores is like saying there's an "environmental aspect" to automobiles.

getting my photo posted for all eternity in the staff break room

This would scare the crap out of me, but maybe I'm just paranoid. I thought this is what they do with shoplifters and check bouncers.

Re:Find a local grocery that *doesn't* use cards

[Tony Shepps]

I thought this is what they do with shoplifters and check bouncers.

I worked for a small family-owned chain - in an IT department that shared office space with security. They took Polaroids of shoplifters. I saw them. There is no way they'd post these shots to look at casually - because every single shoplifter has the exact same sad look about them. It's a weird mixture of shame, resignation, and sadness. The statement each shot made was, "My pathetic life has come to this: being photographed sitting in a supermarket manager's office after being nabbed for this minor crime."

There were people who would steal vanilla extract for the alcohol in it. Or men who would steal Monistat 7 (to return for cash, since it's the most expensive small item on the shelves). Just pathetic.

After looking at a few handfuls of these pics, I never wanted to look at them ever again.

Re:Find a local grocery that *doesn't* use cards

[Fencepost]

I also do a lot of shopping at drug stores instead of grocery stores.

Some drug stores (particularly the chains, which are also the ones most likely to have groceries) have started using these cards as well. I know that CVS (one of the major national drugstore chains in the US) has them, and while I haven't seen them at Walgreens I wouldn't be surprised if they're working on adding them.

Re:Find a local grocery that *doesn't* use cards

[Technician]

Some customers who don't do the homework are easly hooked by the little line at the bottom of the slip claiming "you saved $$$.$$".

An example I like to show, non grocery related, is ink jet ink. My old printer (HP722) used color cartridges that were 30 mL of ink.(HP C1823D) I bought them in the two pack for about $45. My new printer uses a standard cartridge that is 19 mL for $32.00 The high capacity cartridge is 38 mL for $53.00 for a savings of over $10 over two standard cartridges.(HP 78 A & D)

I quickly saw the large capacity cartridge had only 8 mL more ink than my old printer cartridge at more than double the price. The big price change over my older printer rang an alarm bell, so I bought bulk color ink at 13.95 per 1/2 pint.

I only buy a cartridge when one plugs up beyond revovery. I retained my old printer for printing web pages and other non critical stuff and use the new printer only for digital photography. My prints are often mistaken for conventional photos.

Know your enemy

[coyote-san]

One line really pisses me off....

Albertsons has publicly stated that it has no plans to introduce consumer cards. Management could change, of course, but they are undoubtably aware that the people who care enough about these cards to change grocery stores are also going to be among their most loyal customers as long as the other chains still use those cards.

Kroger and Safeway, on the other hand, seem to have these programs in place nationwide.

If you're gonna bitch, hit the right targets. Albertsons is a one of the good guys here, unless you know of specific counter-examples. If so, that would definitely be interesting since it's contrary to their stated policy.

Grrrrrr...

[RareHeintz]

The cards are a fucking cheat anyway - I mean, if you can give me a lower price, just give me the lower price, damn it!

This, above all, is the saddest thing about the HomeRuns/WebVan/insert-failed-groceries-over-the-n et-company-here failures - that grocery stores still aren't subject to enough price competition through side-by-side price comparison that they can get away with giving people price breaks for giving up their privacy.

OK, I'm done peeving now.

OK,
- B

Re:Grrrrrr...

[RareHeintz]

Well, there's that, too.

Re:Grrrrrr...

[jerdenn]

Also, it lets them know that I really DO buy little debbie snack cakes nutty bars, and that they should keep carrying them.

Umm... They know this anyway through inventory management.

-jerdenn

Changing names

[Snowfox]

I don't like the idea of being tracked, so I use different names on all my cards, and I change cards periodically. These cards are always first to go if I need to get through a door, prop up a bit of furniture or scrape some dried goo off one thing or another.

As long as you're not signing up for use as a check card, they don't need an ID or social security number. You can get as many as you like. Needless to say - you should always pay cash with these, or it defeats the whole point.

At Jewel, I was "Jesus DeNazareth" for a while. At Dominicks, I'm "Anon Imus" and at Whole Foods, I'm something which I really can't print here, and I'm shocked as hell that I got away with it.

p.s. - To hell with those who say you're not holding up your end of the bargain by thwarting tracking. It's a fact that prices have gone up disproportionately in the last decade if you don't use the card. That's like me doubling the price of gas at the pump for anyone who won't let me see them and their wife/girlfriend topless. It's an invasion of privacy, subsidized by you, pure and simple.

Forgetting your card

[Christopher Bibbs]

I've found that most grocery stores have a store card they'll swipe if you've forgotten yours (and I forget mine a lot). There are ways to dodge data gathering or pollute their information about you. The trick is to find the ethical route that also lets them know how you feel.

Re:Forgetting your card

[daoine]

The trick is to find the ethical route that also lets them know how you feel.

Tell the cashiers. I do.

Every time I purchase something in CVS, the conversation goes like this:

Them: Do you have a CVS Extra Care Card?
Me: No.
Them: Would you like one? It'll just take a minute.
Me: No thank you, I don't agree with having my drug store purchases tracked by anyone.

9 times out of 10, the cashier will then pull out their card and scan it for me. If the manager happens to be working a register, I shoot for their register so that they can hear it too. It's a method that generally gets me the proper price for items, as well as letting appropriate people know that I'm not happy with the system.

Re:Forgetting your card

[DNS-and-BIND]

Ooh...way to go. You LET those cashiers know what you think about your personal privacy. Make a big fuss, and hold up the line while announcing your views in a loud voice to the whole store. That'll teach those cashiers to follow their voice scripts.

Buy Local

[Zen Mastuh]

The local Mom & Pop (Ward's) has attracted many people who are disillusioned with corporate chain stores. The store has shown its gratitude by offering a wide variety of health foods and natural products. I buy my food in bulk there; at least the distributors aren't owned by tobacco companies. The Mom & Pops have such an intimate relationship with their customers that they don't need to resort to these cards. Shopping cards are a way of asking "Of the products our accountants want us to stop selling, which can you not live without?".

Fascism sucks, too--whether in 1940's Europe or 2000's America. People should subvert this crap by registering shopping cards with Dubya's name and address and only buying spoons, baking soda, nasal spray, and straws.

Here's a novel idea...

[stungod]

Jeez, people! I have these cards, but that doesn't mean that they have my personal info. All they know is that some guy named Ben Dover buys a lot of beer and that he lives at the governor's mansion.

And yes, I have a couple of cards that I rotate. It keeps the "special" discounts coming more frequently.

I mean, is it really that much of a stretch for this crowd to use a fake name? The discount's the same either way.

One Thing

[snubber1]

Pop quiz time: How many of you here have Costco memberships? Plenty I'm sure. They got cheap everything there, a deal for everyone. Now guess who does some of the most aggressive marketing analysis based on what you buy and when?

Don't forget you PAY for this privilege.

Re:One Thing

[coyote-san]

This is a false analogy since Costco targets businesses in addition to individual purchasers. To be sure, Joe Smith, employee with a bene, can be tracked as an individual. But they don't know the breakdown of my purchases as a small business owner. Is that 2-line phone for home or office? What about the set of wire shelving? Even food items are problematic - is that pile of soda and candy bars for me, for clients, for employees, or for vending machines in the office?

Re:One Thing

[DNS-and-BIND]

Costco is a wholesaler. Retailers get mad if wholesalers sell at wholesale prices to the public, therefore you need a "membership" that costs enough for Joe Average to be discouraged, but real wholesale buyers won't care one whit.

What does the EULA say?

[GTRacer]

I've only signed up for 2 of these my whole life. One was a Sam's card my parents actually pay for and use. My wife uses it occasionally too, but Sam's sucks donkey with their Discover or check only crap.

The other was at a Kroker in Tennessee, which was only used once, ever.

In neither case did I read the paperwork. What does it say regarding misuse or deception? Do you agree by accepting the card to not share it or otherwise fudge the data?

GTRacer
- Still doesn't really care...

I stand corrected!

[ShaunC]

Thanks for the correction, I didn't mean to implicate the good guys. In fact I should have known better, as the local chain I spoke of (the one that doesn't issue cards, and brags about it) is now owned by Albertson's. It didn't click when I was writing the post.

Shaun

Why can't I find this anywhere else?

[allism]

I can't seem to find any other stories regarding this...I wanted to find out which grocers were participating in the ethnic profiling so I could scream and holler at them, but I can't find anything but a reference on CNN, MSNBC, and privacydigest.com (the wording in the articles was strikingly similar) stating that a supermarket chain (not chains) was consulting with Larry Ponemon to discuss how to disclose that they had given their shoppers' info to the government voluntarily. If anyone here knows which grocery chain this is, I'm sure we'd all like to know... I'm not saying the info in the KnoxNews story isn't true, but it sounds like a souped-up, tabloid version of the articles mentioned above (and if someone knows differently, PLEASE let us know!)

If you really want to make a difference...

[Local Loop]

If you really want to make a difference, don't use a card at all. Using a bogus name to get a card just encourages them.

The stores won't ditch the card program until they see that N percent of the consumers are refusing to use it.

Sure, you'll pay higher prices for groceries. Now is a good time to evaluate how much your privacy is actually worth to you.

Re:Ok...?

[Flower]

Oh my god! And I bought the hummus spread for my bagel at Einstein's.

Somebody hide me. Quick!

Safeway (CA) doesn't allow this

[KMSelf]

I've asked. The response is now "I can't do that anymore".

Yet another reason to avoid the bastards. Thank $DIETY for Trader Joes!

They can track me all they want

[Unknown Poltroon]

Why on earth would i give them a real name and address?