TiVo Gets In Deeper With Sony

mickeyreznor writes: "TiVo and Sony have entered into a seven year deal. The deal will result in TiVo's software being incorporated into Sony's electronic products. This deal might be good for TiVo, who've seemed to have been struggling financially to date. I'll just have to see how much more sony products cost with TiVo included." This is good news for anyone with a TiVo.

Comments

New product idea..

[supabeast!]

Coming in 2005... The Playstation ThreeVo!

Re:New product idea..

[_Mustang]

And why would you say that as if it were a joke? All we've been hearing lately here on /. is news about the "next big thing" being the entertainment center *doohicky* that allows gaming, television and full net access.Dangit if that isn't exactly where Sony is headed and that much sooner by adding TiVo capabilities to their next PS - the one with the onboard storage.

Upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

On another note, Tivo just released a software update for its stand alone recievers. It allows users to store more content on their boxes by using VBR. Cool stuff.

Re:Upgrade

[Jburkholder]

Oh, while this is good news that 2.5 is here (early perhaps, by some of the talk of "early next spring" that I had been hearing), there is one small drawback (for me, at least).

These upgrades disrupt some of the hacks that can be done. The system has two 'duplicate' root partitions which are used to switch over the machine to new software versions. Any hacks you have applied (as in daily call over Cable via PPP, in my case) have to be re-applied.

I found this out when my recorder went from 1.3 to 2.01 shortly after I got it to work in the first place. I had been eyeing TiVo for a long time and finally decided to get a Sony unit last month and to put a 75GB second drive in it right away.

I ran the unit through enough of the setup to test the modem, as was suggested in the FAQ; but I found that my TiVo was totally unable to perform the second setup call after I had installed the second drive. I looked around to see what I could do to troubleshoot the modem, but nothing worked and it started to look like the thing was just fscked.

I thought I was screwed (can't return it for a new one after voiding the warranty) until I found mention of the PPP hack in the FAQ and gave that a try. It worked great... for about 2 days until the thing upgraded itself to 2.01 and all the things I'd done like getting bash to run and doing the daily call through my Cable were gone.

Apparently, the TiVo had two root partitions that are used to switch software versions. I had to open the machine up again, attach the A drive to my PC and go through the setup again.

I guess I'll be doing that again as soon as this upgrade gets delivered.

Re:FP

[unitron]

Just what I was wondering. Sony is heavily involved in the content providing business as well as the hardware to play the content on business. Sounds like it'll just increase the likelyhood of copy controls being introduced in future versions of the Tivo software and hardware. I want something that's tied to no one's desires but mine. (Able to work with lots of different program listing services, lots of different file formats, easy to transfer files to and from other devices, easy to write your own control software for, easy to expand storage, etc.)

It had to happen...

[saridder]

Sony had to do this because you know MS will merge the X-box and ReplayTV in the next few years. I'm suprised TiVo wasn't bought out completely by Sony. At what point does the web and/or and ethernet card get built in also, creating the ultimate All-in Wonder.

Re:FP

[Tim Macinta]

How is this good news for tivo owners?

For one thing, it means that TiVo is likely to stay in business for quite sometime. A TiVo recorder would be lot less useful if there no company providing the update service that TiVo provides. The updates give you schedule listings and software upgrades. Without the update service, a TiVo recorder is only slightly more useful than a VCR - with the update service a TiVo recorder becomes indespensible to most people who have used one.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV

[Quikah]

The DirectTiVo does have dual tuners now. They have been sending the upgrade out for the past month or so. The standalone Tivo's will never have dual tuner capability unless they release a new unit with two encoders. The standalone are not really comparable to UltimateTV as they server a different market.

Could be a "Digital Switch".

[A_Non_Moose]

Ok, with apologies to the "Digital Hub" idea of SJ.

Give it some serious thought for a second. If Sony could take ILink/Firewire and ethernet, then add it to a Tivo, or Tivo-like device, it would make a killing, IMO.

A rather nebulous idea, to be sure, but one time I was being rather lazy and needed some images I had snagged...for lack of a zip disk, and rather than emailing them to myself or ftp'ing I simply dragged the images to a digital camera and it had put them on the memory card inside.

Very neat and simple. A device that does what you want w/o any restrictions, encryption, access denied, backdoors, product activation.
Drag, Drop, copy, done. (I hesitate to say I was on a mac, so no flames, pls)

Imagine this applied to a PVR. You've got a dvd/SVCD/VCD/mpg/avi/mov or heck maybe even mp3's for good measure. You drag, drop or pipe it over a wire and it plays by either decoding it or accepting a straight DV stream.
Not only would the coolness factor be a driving force, but the MP|RI-AA "FSCK OFF" factor would make them fly off the shelves.

It could be done by SONY and very few others because SONY, unlike most corporations can, have "someone to point a finger at".
MSFT == gates/ballmer
APPL == jobs
SONY == (I have no idea).

This is what most corps are aiming for, mind you.

Yeah there would be other corps screaming bloody murder, maybe suing, but (IIRC) Sony or a Sony like company would defend itself from the likes of Rambus/MSFT/MPAA. (Was it Sony?...don't remember and too dang tired to look it up, anywho..).

I think, it is a possibility...some corps "get it" when they 'give ppl what they want' *not* "give ppl what they think we want'".

One Moose's opinion.

Moose

Re:TiVo works standalone

[WNight]

Well, it used to. Now it doesn't. If you buy a new Tivo withou the service is bitches and complains all the time that you need to buy the service, it won't record for more than thirty minutes, and won't label shows (or let you manually.

Old Tivos work fine, unless you plug them into the phone, at which point they download the upgrade and start functioning as the new Tivos. But, you have to plug them in because the time drifts fairly badly if you don't.

Tivo's rep called users of the Tivo who didn't subscribe "freeloaders" and said that they *might* fix this "accidental" upgrade in v2.5.

The old hardware used to sell with a notice saying it would work without the service but would be so much more with it. Now they say it won't work without (and boy are they right). The only problem is that they broke old machines without telling the owners and are now blaming the owners for expecting the device to function as it claimed on the box.

Don't buy a Tivo, they're essentially crooks because they defraud their customers like this.

Re:TiVo vs UltimateTV

[stripes]

I know TiVo is more expandable with the HD space and all, but is it better than Ultimate TV?

I only have a TiVo, and I'm not positive I'm talking about TiVo vs. UTV here, or mixing some of these up with TiVo vs. ReplayTV. Sorry.

• UTV only works with DirecTV. TiVo comes in a DirecTV flavor (that can now record off of two channels like UTV), and a "Stand Alone" flavor that works with DISH, cable, or an antenna (and mixed, like antenna plus cable or antenna plus DISH -- very important if you get normal networks via antenna).
• DirecTiVo has two "live buffers", UTV only lets you do PIP.
• TiVo does a way way way better job tracking schedule changes, and letting you decide which shows to get when there is a schedule change. (TiVo basically tracks the show name, or other search, and lets you assign a priority, UTV looks for a show that is on at "about eight" with the name you gave it)
• TiVo can be asked for it's current TODO list of stuff to record, to make sure it is going to do what you want.
• UTV has a 30 second skip button, TiVo has a 60x FF with self correction. They both take about as long to use, but many people like the 30 second skip
• TiVo has TiVomatics (during a commercial if the right crap is put into the VBL an icon pops up, pressing select will ask if you want to record "Show X", which is normally the show being advertised (or sponsored by Lexus), you can schedule it as normal, or cancel...or you can not press select and never see the screen -- it works even during FF), UTV doesn't.
• TiVo can be asked why it didn't record something you thought it should
• Unless you disable it, TiVo can record stuff it thinks you might like onto otherwise unused space (really unused, a show you recorded three months ago, and said "save for at least three days" is more important then a show TiVo thinks you might like because you liked other shows with the same actors, writer, and director).
• TiVo lets you opt-out of their "information gathering", and tells you what they gather if you decline to opt-out. MS does not.
• TiVo demands you use a phone to dial in and get program info (well DirecTiVo gets that off the air now, if you aren't recording something at 2am). UTV lets you use any ISP you like.
• UTV's interface is slicker
• TiVo has operating funds for a year or two (plus whatever Sony pays them), but is not currently self sustaining. MS can buy everyone on earth a UTV before going bankrupt :-)
• I like TiVo, I hate MS...

Anyone had/used both and can give us an honest opinion?

Yes, he posts on a lame non-slash web BBS type thing once in a while. I think he is DrStrange. He has three TiVos, a Replay, and a UTV. He does balanced reviews (tells you what each unit is best for, not just what TiVo does well). I looked for the exact post, but couldn't find it. If I had I would have skipped doing my own list.

Television lock in is why Sony/TiVo match well.

[AtariDatacenter]

[reduced version of an essay I have yet to rewrite]

Why is TiVo so delicious? Especially for a game console manufacturer who wants to adopt services? The answer is simple. The DVR locks itself into your television experience as a layer between your remote and your programming. How so?

Once you have a TiVo/UltimateTV/ReplayTV, you are always working within the software environment. That is, it is not like a game console where you say, "Now I am going to play video games. Okay. Now I am done. I am going to switch it off and watch TV." The DVR is an always-on computer television appliance. It does a good job of integrating itself into the television... people without TiVos don't think about turning their TiVo off to do something else. [How? The primary reason is that it takes over the remote control. If you can get people to use YOUR remote control to operate their home television with YOUR appliance, you can put anything in between that you want.]

Match that with a game console, and online services, and you see why it is so attractive. An online service that is "always on" makes itself far more easier to adopt than something you turn off and on.

This is the future and, for this reason, television computing will become pervasive. WebTV isn't it. Game consoles aren't it. It is the DVR which will allow companies to sink their services into the "home television computer".