Microsoft Sets Tolls for .Net Developers

matsh writes: "Today Microsoft revealed the cost of signing up as a developer to .Net. Entry level is $1,000. Standard level $10,000. Custom support will cost even more."

Comments

And Sun ?

[rainer_d]

Can sombody post a comparison ?
Java Developer Essentials is about 50 USD per year, IIRC.
But what else do you get for 1000 USD ? Or 10000 ?

i have become comfortably numb

[anuj]

my eyes just glaze over when i see microsoft's revenue and restriction plans.

it's something i've come to expect and pass over. pretty soon the whole world should be getting numb to microsoft, and when people get numb to something, that something starts losing any appeal it might ever have had.

can you say ibm?

the article from a couple days ago about microsoft going the ibm way (existing but not cutting edge) is being fulfilled with every developer's rolling eyes.

~A

Don't compare

[saqmaster]

I think these prices are fair for what you're getting.. You have to actually look at what it is you're getting, rather than instantly comparing it to other things, like open source.

Personally, I believe that if something is good enough, it is worth paying for. Look at Hotmail, the largest free online email service - it's a pretty good deal, it's never down really and you get a lot of features.. Now if you wanted to implement this kind of service into a more corporate environment, surely you'd expect to pay for it?

The extra charges for customized solutions and support - what's the problem with that? Anyone in the market for purchasing bespoke solutions would budget for obtaining a customized product and excellent support services - I know that there are hundreds, probably thousands of companies out there making bespoke solutions that charge an absolute fortune for it, and then totally extortionate the client when it comes to post-sale support..

I think Microsoft are getting their shit together with this and do have a good focus on the future. With the failings of the dotcom model, someone needs to start using the web for just more than a bunch of websites offering resources and to put this emmence network to some practical use.. .NET/Hailstorm/MyServices is a new business idea which is benefiting from the Internet and will offer companies a good service..

Yeah, Sun may try and compete. They may try and compete against Passport. True, Passport isn't widely used on 3rd party websites - but with the integration with .NET - this intergration count will surely go up.

And at the end of the day, you're not being forced into using it. You can still go off and use whatever technologies and platform you wish. You may opt to not pay for such services, but if I went to a garage to get my car serviced and was told it was free, i'd be rather dubious about the quality...

For whom the bell tolls... Subscription

[swordboy]

Make note that this is a subscription, not just a flat, one-time fee. This looks like the beginning of Microsloth's relationship with everyone's wallet.

Re:More on the broad front

[bricriu]

Moreover, I think this is an incentive to drive out freeware and open-source developers. Who's going to spend $250/$1500 on something that's not going to make them a penny in return? The big benefit to this for MS is that fw/o-s often provides functionality that they would rather not let you have, or that they would rather charge you for (my fav. current example is Virtual Network Computing 3.3.3r7, which -- for free -- does everything that PCAnywhere does).

Yah know what though? It's going to KILL them in the web market. They think I'm going to include the web-based version of .Net calendar on my little site? Think again. JSP is still free, and ColdFusion ain't so much. I don't care how many dorks still use FrontPage, they're going to drop it like a hot potato when they realize they have to cough up for using widget X.

Evidence of demand, benefits for customer

[pubjames]

What I don't understand about Microsoft's .NET strategy is

a) Where is the evidence of demand for it?
b) What are the benefits for the customer?

I regularly buy flights on the net, also books. I tend to use the same companies each time. They have my details, I just need to select the product I require and click the accept button. I know that my info. only resides with them, and I trust them not to spread it around.

Where does .NET fit into this?

I am imagining going to a web site, say Amazon. The site asks me "Can Amazon access your hobby list to make recommendations?" Er, sorry, no it can't. "Can Amazon access your calendar so we can find when your birthday is?". Er, nope. "Can Amazon access your address book so we can tell your friends about our great products?" Absolutely not. "Can Amazon access your job profile so we can suggest some business books?". No, and stop asking the dumb questions. The answer is no.

There are lots of, for instance, on-line calendar services available, which can be accessed from any web enabled device or WAP phone. Do people use them that much? What would Microsoft provide that I can't already get? And would it be worth paying for?

Please, someone tell me, I'm dying to know. What is the benefit to me, Joe Consumer, of .NET???

Re:Evidence of demand, benefits for customer

[danaris]

I'm imagining something a little scarier. Going to a website, say A(MS)azon. The site says, "Based on the hobby list I just accessed, here are some recommendations." "Happy birthday, Dan! I just read your calendar through Passport/.NET and found out it's your birthday!" "Here are some business books based on your job profile..." etc. Why should they bother to ask, once MS controls the whole (.)net?
Of course, that would never work for me, since I will never have a Passport/.NET/M$ account/identity. But would that then mean that I would no longer be able to use the (.)net for anything besides reading news on Slashdot?

Dan Aris

Re:Evidence of demand, benefits for customer

[revscat]

d) you want to buy a product from a web site. It asks your date of birth. Response: 1/1/1970.
Do they seriously believe that people are going to give them that info?

Yes, they do. And people will.

I have been involved in setting up several web ventures; a handful of them were even successful. One project I was working on involved credit scoring with hooks into buying insurance and such. Before setting off on this we did some research on how willing people would be to become a part of this, seeing as how it required more than the usual amount of personal information. The company we outsourced the research to came back with some truly unexpected results: over 60% of the respondents either were willing to give their information, or didn't have strong feelings against it. Only around 25% of the people we surveyed responded negatively.

Remember, this was information such as social security number, credit history, mother's maiden name, and so forth -- the most personal of information. This took us completely by surprise; we were fully expecting this to be a major hurdle to overcome.

Eventually the effort was killed not by lack of market potential, but by legislation prohibiting the distribution of such information directly to the consumer. (This was backed largely by the credit reporting agencies and their lobbies.)

So do I beleive that .NET will be successful? Absoultely. If it offers even the most trivial of benefits to consumers, they will flock to it like cattle to the slaughter.

Re:Thin Edge

[JabberWokky]

It's not that much, considering that any decent musical instrument costs at least $1k, and impoverished musicians find a way to come up with that sort of cash all the time.

Yes, but your guitar will last you for decades... when do you think the next version of .Net will be released, and how much do you think it will cost? $1000 over 20 years versus $1000 a year is a very different thing. Also, you *can* get a decent guitar for $160 instead of $1200, and would be advised to while you are learning to play, and you'll discover that the two have very different uses. Playing Bach, I'll use the $1200 guitar. Playing Nick Cave, I'll use the $160 guitar. Switch the two around, and it just doesn't sound as nice - in either direction (a bit of buzz on the bottom E and lots of hollow slapping with my palm on the body adds quite a bit to a song like "Kiss Off", but not to "Sweet Baby James"). If both cost $1000, I wouldn't own both.

Look at Basic - half the reason so many people learned it in the early 80s is because it was on a ROM on half the computers out there - Apple ][, IBM PC, etc. And for those that didn't have it, it generally came with the OS (GW Basic, BASICA, etc).

--
Evan

benefits for vendor, cutsomer screwed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I am imagining going to a web site, say Amazon. The site asks me "Can Amazon access your hobby list to make recommendations?" Er, sorry, no it can't. "Can Amazon access your calendar so we can find when your birthday is?". Er, nope. "Can Amazon access your address book so we can tell your friends about our great products?" Absolutely not. "Can Amazon access your job profile so we can suggest some business books?". No, and stop asking the dumb questions. The answer is no.

What makes you think they will ask? Clippy, retired from irritating users, will be trying to compile all of those things to give to whoever wants to tap the information. You can bet all of that crap will be stored on your hard drive in some file that will crash the OS if removed. Why build a four terrabyte database on your victims when you can make them do it for you.

The most disgusting thing about this is that it may work. M$ will continue to twist the arms of big vendors to maintain the stupid Windoze only OS sales, and they will break their old OSs. Joe sixpacks will either quit buying computers (like he already has), or he will migrate eventually. Getting my own wife to use anything but windoze was like pulling teeth, though she understood why. If the greedheads see the migration working, they will try to tap it. They are all licking their chops.

If M$ can't collect my information at home, they have me at work. Service packs and "upgrades" have been adding privacy invasion tools on our NT machines for years. Think Outlook, MSIE 5, remote desktops, bleh. Soon the company will be putting up a ton of money for Win2k, which has yet to be tested with more than 150 company applications. XP has been prove to break Word templates, so more costs will be incured there on thousands of broken documents. But it's worth it, right? Gotta keep current.

-Twitter.

Great news for Microsoft's competitors?

[AtariDatacenter]

Now I get why Microsoft would be eager to get this into Linux, and every other viable competitor. .Net isn't about just web services. It is about programs. You can be charged $5/month for a backup program after 30 days. Of $2/month for extra calendar features. Or $1/month for an online backup of your config files.

If *just* Windows goes into renting software, then the Linux community has a GREAT advantage. Why? People absolutely HATE having the meter running. Any service which has a flat rate, when reasonably priced and sometimes even slightly more expensive, will ALWAYS win the consumer. It is a historical truth.
If only Windows adopts .Net, and the renting of software, they're writing the first chapter in the mainstreaming of Linux. That is, providing, the Linux community doesn't adopt .Net!

Seems like it would be a strategic advantage NOT to have software rental on Linux. And this is a plus for the open source community.

Opposing Open Source

[heikkile]

I think it is pretty obvious that one of the main purposes of this move is to exclude Open Source development from this platform. Not many contributors to OS software are willing to pay such amounts, and you can bet there is a clause that prevents people from sharing one MyServices license even inside the same project.

Re:I thought Microsoft had learned this lesson bef

[Ratbert42]

Anyone remember an old game (c. 1989) from Business Week that used to come in boxes of 5.25" floppies? You would run Microsoft for 5 years and see how well you did. The best I could do was to practically give away the software for 3 years, then once I had market share crank up the prices 1000%. Maybe Gates & ape-boy Ballme[r] have been playing that game.

Re:This is for their supply of .NET services/hosti

[Anonymous Coward]

But since "My Services" includes the passport auth it might as well be mandatory.

You can't run your own passport system. What exactly would be the point of running your own .net server without paying for "My Services"?

??

Re:Thin Edge

[Magumbo]

A decent guitar, by my definition, is one that sounds good. I completely agree though about getting one for under $300. Here's a little anecdote for you folks that think a "decent guitar" costs $1000+.

This is a shameless plug, but... all of these songs were played on a mass produced Korean Ibanez with a broken neck (fixed with glue and various scrap nails and screws). The thing is also missing buttons on two tuners. I think it sounds pretty damn decent for a guitar that was found broken in two sitting on top of a neighbor's garbage.

Original cost? Probably 200 bucks. If sold, it'd be worth about $20 maximum. To me, it's priceless.