What Do You Do When CS Isn't Fun Any More?

wonderless asks: "Long ago and far away, I thought that I was going to be a Great Geek, and that I was going to provoke a revolution in the computer industry--and indeed, the world--with my mastery of technology. I could hardly wait to throw myself into an intense, highly technical curriculum and shine. But as I said, that was long ago and far away. Now I'm one semester away from graduation, with a 3.5 average overall and a lackluster 3.0 in CS, and I'm liking it less and less every day. I used to be able to say that at least it pays well, but now I can't even take solace in that. I drag myself to classes and through projects, and it all seems really pointless--I'm just implementing what's written in the book, and eradicating the countless off-by-one bugs is nothing short of mind-numbing. I'd like nothing better than to recapture the feeling of joy I used to get out of doing this, and to once again be able to say I'm doing what I love. What do you do when it isn't fun any more, but you'd like it to be?"

Comments

Go do something else, maybe

[Sam Jooky]

You do something else. If you're about to graduate with a Bachelor's degree in one subject, then you're not very far from having another Bachelor's degree in something else. Have you thought about sticking around a couple years and getting a second major?

I have two degrees, one in CS and one in Archaeology. CS isn't what I want my career to be in, but I can take my computer skills and development knowledge and apply it to archaeology problems.

I like computers and archaeology a lot, though like I said, I don't want to be stuck in the computer industry for the rest of my life (can you say: Middle management, and other un-fun things when you get old?). But I like it enough that I can take it and mix it with something else I like and come up with a winning combination.

Talk to your advisors, too. That's what they get paid for. Mostly, though, you just have to go out there and do what you want to do, money be damned.

Good luck!

Sam Jooky

Re:Go do something else, maybe

[nick this]

A long time ago I learned that its better to get less money doing a job that you love than to get lots of money doing a job that you hate.

The whole reason to get a degree, IMHO, is to widen the possible jobs that you are employable in. You should pick a field that you enjoy, then pick from the choices you have in that field based on money or job satisfaction.

If the only thing you are in the field for is money, then you will be stuck with a job you hate, and money is no compensation. I guarantee you will be going back to school for another degree, or working in a different field without a degree.

Life is *way* too short to do something for a living that you don't want to do. Figure out what it is you *want* to do, and get the degree that fits into that.

For me, I like coding. But only on my own terms. I don't like working in a cube, I don't like hunting for bugs in someone elses code. So I won't do it. I code for myself, on my own time, and use my CS background to get me a job in a field tangential to CS.

This works for me. It might work for you, too. Course, the job I have (and enjoy) pays me less than I could make, but I never wake up wishing I didn't have to go to work.

Thats me.

Re:Go do something else, maybe

[kannen]

This is awesome advice. You have a chance right now to use student loans to finance your education without worrying about paying off the mortgage or making the payments on your year old car. You should take it.

I ended up with a minor in English in addition to my degree in CS. I really love studying texts and critically analyzing them, and it turns out, I'm really good at it - as good as, if not better than, I am at being a computer geek. There was just one problem: as I thought about going to grad school and doing work in English, I realized that although I am interested in the English Renaissance, as well as modern American literature, I don't have a deep interest in studying it. Sooo I scrapped the idea of grad school in English and opted for a position doing computer programming, because I knew how to program and it would pay the bills.

But life has many twists and turns, and I really love the studies I am now doing in the Bible, and I love it so much, that I wish my job didn't get in the way of my ability to continue intensively study it. And, as it turns out, a really great seminary has just added a branch campus in my city. So, next year, I'm planning on starting work on my seminary degree part time. It combines my love of analyzing texts with my burden to understand the Bible and the critical thinking skills that I have picked up through computer science. And it turns out I'm really great at teaching, and I think that this seminary degree will be a valuable way to augment my teaching skills and the knowledge teaching draws upon.

Now, I'm not saying that you should enroll in seminary. *grin* What I am saying is that you should look at your interests and look at ways to pursue them. Don't go for the whole enchilada, but take small bites. If your interest continues to be held, be willing to take the next step. I didn't know when I started taking literature classes for the hell of it that this would allign me for Biblical work, but it did provide a critical foundation for me. Taking the literature classes gave me an awareness of where my real interests lay. Go feed your interests.

Hear my violin?

[AdventureExtreme]

Welcome to the real world my friend.
Unless you go to work for a company doing research in CompSci you are going to be doing pretty much the same thing say-in and day-out when you get a job.
All I can say is don't lose your appreciation of computers but realize that not all computer related activity is going to be cutting edge and challenging. Keep working and eventually you will get the chance to do what you want.

Re:Hear my violin?

[jmccay]

You can also find a project to work on during your spare time. Remember Work to live and not live to work. Find something that iterests you and play around with it outside of work. This could be somethign as complex as the Linux Kernel, or simply wirting computer games as a hobby. The point is remember to work to live and not live to work.
You say you are approaching the end of your college years. NOW is the time to pick somehting to make a hobby while you have a lot more time. You can even have a lot of hobbies. Facts of life are you go to your job to get paid and pay the bills, but your hobbies are what you love (and live for).

Study somemore.

[ck_kid]

Study geology or astronomy or (insert interest here) and apply your CS knowledge to something that would be rewarding to you.

CS is an enabler for most of us not an end.

You do not even really need to go back to school for this.

Hans

Two long, one short. I am lost.

the problem word here is "undergrad"

[mr.ska]

You want to break down technological barriers? You want to implement the future? You want to compile boldy what none have compiled before? Don't get a job.

You're right... your job will more than likely be doing what everyone else is doing - implementing the well-known. Whee-hah. Sounds like that is exactly what you want to avoid.

I'm not usually one to advocate this, but go to grad school. You'll hook up with the people who are developing what will be the standard years from now, and are researching the bleeding edge. A Master's degree will be a good start.. if you want to really push the envelope, you gotta go all the way to Ph.D.

Grad school will break you out of the its-been-done rut you seem to be in. The only problem might be the cost (it's never cheap), and your grades. Check with some of your professors, see what it takes to get in. You may need to take another year and polish yourself up.

Failing that, start a pr0n website. Pr0n always seems to be on the cutting edge...

What to do...

[TBone]

Realize that having a CS degree will at least get you in the door at places for more than just programming. I burnt out while I was in school, too, and dropped out in my last year, because I was tired of all the FSCKING programming. I mean, if I wanted to be a programmer, that's all fine and good, but I wanted to be, at the time, a systems analyst, and later changed my mind, and now I'm a systems admin.

Finish it out. I wish I had - but I got into the job market before the dot-com bubble started or burst, so I was lucky enough to not have to depend on my degree to get me just in the door. Now I'm going the night school here at an in-town unoiversity.

You're going to need the degree, coming in with minimal experience. I know, it sucks, but finish it out, then get out of the programming. I still go back to it for fun when I wanna do something, but hell, it's surely not what I want to do for the rest of my life.

Another set of options..

[d.valued]

First off, school's a bitch, to put it bluntly. Day in, day out in this small splace with generally small-minded proffessors. I know, I've been through the meat grinder as well.

There are a few things you could do. If you can get certifications, get them and start working as a roving prostitute.. err... consultant. Good money, hotel rooms, and you can screw with peoples' networks at will. Tee hee hee.

You're too far along in school to check out other options, realistically.. but maybe see what other things you have interest in and try to cross-pollinate those interests.

Maybe try becoming a kernel hacker. Either it'll cook you or you'll be helping out Everyone And Their System.

The last option I can think of is PROZAC. You may be sufferring from depression (can't blame you.. like I said, it's a bitch!), so maybe a visit to the shrink would help.

Re:Another set of options..

[Troodon]

"Yep, I bet its just the pre-graduation blues. Its like: this is it?? Now, you release me upon the unsuspecting world? Now, i know all there is to know??!? There HAS to be more to it than that".

I agree whole heartedly, I managed to burn myself out doing a zoology degree, spending 18 hours a day split between study, working in the library and conducting/helping with research work. Grinds one down after a while. I thought Id could stick it, for a while getting out of the university and just walking in a nearby forest helped reaffirm my inspiration for the field, and throughout the research I worked on helped. Though that was a two edge sword in and of itself, it just help to illustrate how irrelevant my studies where. Anyway I plugged away and ended up with a degree certificate I wouldnt even use in the lavatory and Im not talking about hanging it there either.

"I like the Prozac recommendation. I mean, i totally flipped out my last semester in school".

Id recommend caution over just hoping popping a pill will wash those blues away, with out some deeper examination of the problem, it will just treat the symptoms without addressing the causes. And the side effects of antidepressants arent much fun at all. Talking to a profesional might be a better solution, Cognitive Therapy and so forth.

I'd reccomend taking a year out, talk to your tutor and explain the situation, the university should oblige, after all its in their interests too to see you do well. Then go and do something inspirational, why not offer your services to that guy trying to set up net access in the Himalayas, or some other interesting voluntary work. Id caution against just working for the year.

Then after completing your degree, why not do a masters 'conversion' course to another subject to an aim to work in interdisciplinary manner with researches whatever in that field. Be it helping ecologists with their modelling/stats, writing embedded software for medical implants, stuff to analyse ECG data, and so forth.

After spending a year pondering what I want to do with myself Im just about to embark on a computer science degree with a potential aim to approach my former subject from another angle.

Whatever, just letting it fester, doing nothing and hoping to just plug your way through to the end of your degree is the worst course.

Teach

[gmhowell]

All of this commentary about more education and other BS. Go out and teach. There are hundreds of school districts across the country that want math teachers (and probably some who want computer teachers). Take the opportunity to travel some.

The pay is not great, and if you decide to stick it out, you'll have to take a fair amount of courses. But if you are only into it for a couple of years, it will be a good break, and possibly very rewarding.

(I almost went this route after deciding that chemistry sucks. Got my MBA instead. While the toys are nice, I would have preferred teaching. But I wasn't going to take the teaching courses.)

Maybe for you..

[Slynkie]

Jeez, how negative can you get?
I got my CS degree in may, although I've been working "in the real world" through a co-op since january. And compared to school, I -love- it. Yes, of course the projects aren't going to be as interesting as you want, and there's the beaurocrats, and all the other stuff you mentioned.

But compared to boring classes where a good percentage of the professors are even dumber than PHB's, or at the least, even MORE close-minded, working for a real company, with real goals, and real projects, is amazing.

And no, I don't work for some new-wave dotcom...I work for IBM, one of the oldest dinosaurs out there. So if I can deal with it, and still love it, even after struggling to stay awake through college (and only come out with a 2.7GPA), then others can too.

It ain't easy to kill a geek :P

Been there, done that...

[edremy]

except in my case it was after a PhD in Chemistry. I just didn't like going to work.

My advice. Sit back and ask yourself what's really important to you and what you enjoy. In my case, I liked teaching and programming, but not the rest of the baggage that came with being a faculty member. I got into instructional technology, and it's been a much better fit. I'm not rich, but I don't wake up in the morning dreading work.

Do you like to write? Check out technical journalism or documentation. Would you rather just nail boards together? No shame in being a carpenter.

Perhaps no job sounds like fun. In that case, go get an MBA and head for the money. You can enjoy yourself in your time off.

The decision can be wrenching-after all that work, why would you just throw it away? I get asked that all the time. The short answer is that I'm happy now.

Eric

Try it in the real world before you give up

[MarkusQ]

Now I'm one semester away from graduation [...] in CS, and I'm liking it less and less every day[...]I drag myself to classes and through projects, and it all seems really pointless--I'm just implementing what's written in the book, and eradicating the countless off-by-one bugs is nothing short of mind-numbing. I'd like nothing better than to recapture the feeling of joy I used to get out of doing this, and to once again be able to say I'm doing what I love. What do you do when it isn't fun any more, but you'd like it to be?

The big thing that is missing in school is users. It's like saying that being a pilot isn't fun anymore because you have gotten sick of flight simulators. In the real world it isn't clean "just implementing things out of the book" anymore. You have real people counting on you (and often, other real people counting on you to fail). The stakes (and the pressure, and the thrill) go up accordingly.

Yes, batting practice gets dull. So does field stripping a gun. But we do these things, not as an end in themselves, but so we'll be ready when it's for real. That's when the fun starts.

-- MarkusQ

Re:Games

[Rogerborg]

Try it. Games programming will challenge you like you wouldn't believe. You'll sink or you'll swim, but if you last six months then you'll never fear another computer problem, ever.

As an aside, I went to one lecture in the second half of my senior CompSci year; it turned out to be a pre-exam revision lecture for a course I hadn't done. It was OK though, because I fell asleep, having been up all night hacking Netrek.

So, I got a sucky degree (British 2.2) but I learned to work with a real world project, made up of various standards of contributions, I learned a little graphics, a little input, a little maths, and a lot of network. I learned that an RSA authentication scheme is practically unbreakable, but easily duped. It got me a handle that I'm still using ten years later. It got me my first job, as a games programmer, where again I had to learn a little of everything. That got me the experience that I needed to make up for my degree.

So, sure, give it a try. If nothing else, it'll fast track your decision about whether computers are for you.

You obviously haven't been doing it very long...

[FireballFreddy]

"but after you've done it for a few years, it's all the same"?

The computer industry makes huge leaps in no time. New tools and new technologies develop constantly. Do you hear that ringing beside you? It's a cell phone with an integrated PDA. See that black rectangle on the desktop? It's a laptop computer with a wireless network connection. These aren't just hardware... they've got software inside and somebody wrote it.

Not impressed by the newest gadgets? Ok, how about instant messaging? Internet telephony? StarCraft and Monsters Inc. for God's sake! Do you think Monsters Inc. could have been made 10 years ago?

And you think it's all the same? Open your eyes, look at all the new stuff you can do, and try to keep up.

WTF?

[Christopher Bibbs]

Maybe next year will be a royal pain, but up till now this 27-year old developer has been having a blast. Working for a profitable company (that makes a difference), getting more and more say in the direction of the code base, exploring new ideas, being able to look at my own work from just 6 months back and realize how much I've learned....

What a great time!

Now, I'll admit, I didn't get a CS degree. No, Anthropolgy major with CS minor for me, thank you. Of course, I had figured out in my sophmore year that Physics just wasn't going to pan out for me. Maybe all students should change majors after the first year or two. I dunno

Definately

[Skip666Kent]

Don't let either a self-destructively cynical worldview or a fear of success/failure let you drop what you've done so far.

FINISH. No if's / and's / nand's / xor's or 'well...I don't know man...the world is going to shit anyways so I might as well just blah blah blah...'s about it. Tell yourself whatever lies it takes to finish up your degree. Just do it. Trust us on this one!

You never have to touch another computer again for the rest of your life if you don't want to, but a degree - in ANYTHING - shows that, to some substantial degree, you can get your work done and see a difficult job through to the end. THIS is what employers of all kinds really like, and will also give you the self-assurance you will need if you choose to go it on your own and start a business or something.

Bottom line:

Shut the fsck up and do your damn homework.

; )

The Degree is the Beginning, not the End.

[mindstrm]

Finish your degree. You are so close. Whether you enjoy it or not, you want that piece of paper for down the road, trust me.

Now.. as for jobs. There certainly are jobs out there for CS grads. They just might not pay someone with a degree and no experience $100,000 a year like they would have a couple years ago.. that's the difference. Things are more realistic now.

You can expect to find a job somewhere, programming, or whatever, and gain some experience. If you are good, in a few years, you will have that big salary.

It's a mistake to think that the university degree is what gives you your big salary... University is just one way to open the door to a particular field for you. (In some fields, it's practically the only way). Your experience and abilities are what really count.

No degree is going to automatically finish your career for you. A degree is a beginning, not an end.

Yes! Listen to this man...

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Listen to this guy; he's smart.

I have been involved in recruitment for companies in the past, and I have seen the total disregard for being reasonable often exhibited by managers (even good ones, if they are just being hassled about interviews when they have better things to do -- like their job). Amongst other things, I have spoken to a number of people who had dropped out part-way through a CS degree that was "boring them" or "not teaching them anything". There were some prima donnas who had a rude awakening coming to them, but several of them were obviously quite bright and just genuinely not finding much to keep them interested. None of them ever got an interview, even with my recommendation, because the view of others higher up the tree was that if they were really that bright, they'd have stayed on and finished the course.

As for taking a break, I agree it can be useful, but be careful not to stray too far from the CS path. If you do, it's going to be hard to get back in if you ever want to; knowledge dates faster in our industry than just about everywhere else. Time out of the loop could seriously count against you when you come to applying for jobs.

I know how depressing academic courses can be; I used to love maths, but by the end of three years studying nothing else, I was getting seriously depressed. Now that I've finished my formal studies, and a CS diploma afterwards that gave me much the same feeling at the end, I actually find myself interested in the subjects again. Without the pressure -- "you must do everything on this syllabus, and you haven't got time to do much else" -- it's a different world. I've actually found myself going back to read notes on some of the more interesting courses I did -- things I barely looked at way back then, and never did exams on -- and I do it purely out of interest. Now I'm not studying it just to answer the next problem sheet, it's a totally different feeling. Keep the faith.