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Yahoo! Not Bound by French Court Ruling
Klerck writes "Luckily, a US federal judge has ruled that Yahoo! is not bound by the French ruling that demanded that all Nazi memorabilia be removed from its auction site. It's a nice surprise to have a sensible ruling come out of a federal court in times like these."
And no, I don't think this is funny!
Black holes occur when God divides by zero.
So if an American website is not bound by a French ruling, then perhaps there's hope for a certain Russian Programmer accused of breaking US law.
The months are just too short. I can count the number of days on one hand.
Does it apply in reverse?
Example: DeCSS is legal in France. If I post DeCSS on a US server and this server is a mirror of a French server, does French law and "backup copy" laws apply to the US site as well?
No? Then this decision is nothing more than US protecting its huge mega-corporation. Yes? Then free speech is really better protected.
Just my US$0.02... =)
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Nothing to see here, move along....
It is the same with the Confederate flag. You cannot bury or forget about history. The fact is the Nazis did very well in their efforts to turn Europe into one BIG Germany, killing millions in the process. Although the cause was wrong, it is a part of history that should not be forgotten.
The same is true for the Confederate flag and associated memorabilia. The U.S. was at war with itself on policies, state rights, and eventually slavery. These facts should not be forgotten either.
You will always have the Skinhead and Neo-Nazi types abusing the symbolism but, that is the cost of a free society.
That just means that the French cannot persue the case through the US courts.
If the French court chooses to levy a huge fine for non-compliance on the US side, and seizes Yahoo assets in France as payment, there's bugger all the US courts can do about it. If Yahoo continues to flout what the French court regards as the law, and the French court issues warrants for the arrest of Yahoo executives, then, yes, the US courts wont be used to extradite Yahoo execs, but European courts and those in countries with extradition treaties with France will be able to enforce this should these people ever leave the US.
I don't agree with the situation. But then, I didn't think it was fair when Dimtry was arrested for activities that are perfectly legal in his own country that were performed in his own country. It's entirely hypocritical for the US to expect citizens of other countries to obey its laws globally, but expect its own citizens to be able to ignore those of other countries.
KMSMA (WWBD?)
How can a US court make a decision regarding enforcement of a foreign court decision? Likewise, how can a French court expect to decide the practices of a US company that hosts a site in the US? I hope that somebody in the respective govts wakes up and realizes that these decisions make no sense at this level.
In a later ruling, the French court ruled that the US court ruling does not apply. (tomorrow) A US court ruled that the ruling of the French court that ruled that the us court ruling does not apply, does not apply. (next week) A French court ruled that the US court sucks.
I am a U.S. Citizen that hosts 3 web sites on a server Based in Canada. Who's laws will I need to follow? Are my sites considered free speech? Or do I need to provide a french translation on the site?
This latest ruling, while all good in well in allowing operators to control their own content is just a baby step twords addressing the eventual evolution of laws governing the internet.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
You can have the freedom to be a racist hate-monger all you want, as long as you don't play DVDs on Linux.
(This message has been brought to you by the US Government, owned and operated by the MPAA, RIAA, et al.)
Situations like this are going to bring about an eventual world government. the case being that there seems to be a need now for some sort of *enforceable* world law or common standard between nations. War will never unify the world, but you can bet petty lawsuits will.
So basically, the French can blow it out there asses or try to sue Yahoo interests in France, but that will likely lead to Yahoo AND every other significant internet entity ceasing to do business in France, and I think that would be fine. It would teach the whiny French a lesson about the real world.
It's funny to see this described as a sensible ruling. Well, the ruling is not surprising, and I'm personnally quite happy with it. But it clashes big time with the rules US courts have developped regarding the application of US law abroad, especially when it comes to anything Internet or telecom related.
So far, american courts have used the most far fetched factual elements to tie any dispute to US jurisdictions and apply US law to them.
Now what? All national laws are equal, but some nationality are more equal than others?
I know most people don't agree with me about the whole 'Nazi' issue.
With that said, let us get to the issue. If Yahoo! wants to do business in France, don't they have to abide by their rules?
Isn't this American-we don't have to-all your culture are-Pax Americanus crap getting us in enough trouble?
When you've got a company like Yahoo! something tells me that it isn't a free speech issue, but more of a money issue.
Everyone is trying to find DMCA loopholes, but what about other issues. Can I order pot seed from Holland? Nope. It's something that is illegal here, and I wouldn't expect the Dutch to rule that they can send seeds just because they want to.
It seems that we try to push our so called freedom on people so much and they end up wanting to kill us.
The American Dream: Growing up from the gutter and getting to the top, just to tell people Screw You!
Get your Unix fortune now!
I'm sure nobody will be fooled by this, but I really must point out that child pornography is not legal in Thailand, and that the Thais are actually doing their level best to stamp out the child sex trade, with next to no help from the legions of fat American and German tourists who agree with Slashdot that domestic laws can't be enforced overseas.
-- the most controversial site on the Web
On one hand, the US can go on and impose their laws (Helms-Burton, etc.) on other countries when these are just doing something that they simply don't like (like talking to Cuba or any other country on the US blacklist), something that does not hurt the US in any way.
On the other hand, when the actions of US companies have a direct impact on what goes on in other countries, go against the laws of said countries (like prevention the spread of hate litterature), the US entities are not bound by the laws of other countries.
What the french judge said, at the urging of jewish activists and other anti-racism groups, was basically "do whatever you want in *your* country, but abide by our laws in *our* country". In this Age of the Internet, where so-called "local" actions can have global consequences, this was not un-reasonable.
The only signal that non-americans get out of this is that the US thinks its above anyone else, that it can do as it pleases wherever it wants to do it and that it has little respect for laws and customs of other countries. That it thinks it has "the right" to interfere in other countries' affairs (Helms-Burton, their very active involvment in the recent Nicaragua election, etc.), while other countries can't say anything on the activies of US companies and/or can critisize (sp?) moronic decisions of the US gov't (Kyoto, etc.).
Then don't wonder why the US is so hated abroad -- and contrary to Dan Rather said on Letterman's, they don't hate the US because they envy it. They hate it because it can be such a idiotic bully, at times.
They did, in fact, file suit against Yahoo!,Inc., a Delaware Corporation based in (then) Santa Clara, CA (now Sunnyvale), charging that because the US Auctions site "reached" France, it was bound by French law.
Know of what you speak before you speak it.
"We find you offensive, and demand you pay us to relieve some of the stench of your offensive nature"
In other times, disputes like this have led to wars.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
That is a very good point. Let us never forget what happened. Thank you for bringing that up. Banning items that would help people remember the atrocities committed by the Nazis would make it easier to forget, and make learning from history that much harder.
Personally, I have several patches taken as trophies from the uniforms of dead and or captured German soldiers, brought back by my Grandfather after the war. There are a couple af swastikas, several rank and corps patches, and a modest-sized bird o' prey clutching a swastika, printed on linen cloth. I keep them on my shelf, next to my M1 rifle, to remind me of my Grandfather, and of what happened.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Any evidence to support this? While I'm sure neo-nazis love to get their hands on original artifacts, there are a lot of people (WWII veterans & history buffs) who collect war trophies from both sides. Both my grandfathers served in WWII; and we have several family friends who are WWII vets as well. One gentleman in particular, a retired Army colonel, has an extensive collection of artifacts that he
acquired in North Africa and Italy. The barber I used to patronize (also a WWII vet) had a huge display case in his shop of war souvineers. I've met dozens of people who collect militaria, and I wouldn't dare call any one of them a Nazi sympathizer (at least not unless I was looking for a fight). A collector isn't necessarily pro-nazi because he buys German artifacts, any more than he would be pro-slavery because he buys Confederate artifacts, or pro-communist because he buys Soviet artifacts.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?