Slashdot Mirror


Ballmer, Gates on Microsoft's Future

RoadFever writes: "At the Microsoft shareholders meeting, CEO Ballmer acknowledged they may have a popularity bug. "We understand, based upon the fact that our industry didn't rally to support us, that we need to change the way we interact and relate to our industry," Ballmer said. There's a summary article in the Seattle Times and more stuff on the Microsoft investor relations page. Will words translate to action? Well, the company might want to start by toning down the habit of taking credit for every innovation: "Really, the reason you see open source there at all is because we came in and said there should be a platform that's identical with millions and millions of machines," Gates said." The question-and-answer session near the end of the meeting has the most juicy quotes.

13 of 582 comments (clear)

  1. Driving people to open source by 90XDoubleSide · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "Really, the reason you see open source there at all is because we came in and said there should be a platform that's identical with millions and millions of machines,"

    So wat he's saying is that the mass adoption of their inflexible software has driven people to create open products that will meet their needs, or am I misinterpreting him ? ;)

    --
    "Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity" -Alvy Ray Smith
    1. Re:Driving people to open source by Ami+Ganguli · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I was trying to figure this one out myself. My best guess is that thinks Open Source requires commodity hardware, and figures that Microsoft helped to create the commodity PC platform.

      I'll grant that MS helped to create the PC (although it wasn't entirely their doing by any means - Intel and IBM certainly had a role to play), I'm at a loss as to why this would be relavent to Open Source. Free/Open Source software tends to be much more cross-platform than proprietary stuff, so it's a pretty bizarre statement.

      Could it be that Bill still doesn't get this whole Free Software thing? Can he really be that clueless about the non-Wintel universe?

      --
      It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
    2. Re:Driving people to open source by Null_Packet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think what Bill is saying is that he feels the Open Source movement is riding on the coat-tails of Microsoft's success. I think he is implying that Microsoft broke ground and created a standards-based system of software (Office, Windows, etc) and the Open Source movement is using some of his original ideas and yet claiming to be at odds with MS.

      As far as Bill being clueless- remember any large Corporation's PR stuff is like a big card game. Bill and Co. are very, very smart no matter how evil they may or may not be. Don't think for a second that Bill hasn't thought through the whole OSS movement.

  2. DUH!!! by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Insightful
    We understand, based upon the fact that our industry didn't rally to support us, that we need to change the way we interact and relate to our industry," Ballmer said.

    Like they haven't already killed off a lot of competitors, knifed in the back a lot of partners, and set their sights on other industries, which BTW could be customers of partners and competitors? The problem with being an 357.142851428 Kg. gorilla is, you can sit anywhere you like, but after you've done so, who's willing to be their friend and stick their neck out for you? Even some things PR can't fix.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  3. Ballmer sums it up... by Rice-Pudding · · Score: 4, Insightful


    "Second, we know we need to continue to focus in on our relationship with our customers. This is an area where we need to be ever vigilant. Certainly, as Bill talked about, we have opportunities for improvement in security, in virus protection, in the way we license and sell our products, and the reminders on that are always in front of us." --Steve Ballmer

    I think this pretty much sums up a lot of what is wrong with Microsoft:
    1) Security
    2) The way they license and sell products.

    At least they are realizing that market opinion is starting to go against them, and are trying to change this. I don't love Microsoft, but if they started to change their licensing tactics, I would be more inclined to buy their products.

  4. Interesting question: by psyclone · · Score: 4, Insightful
    QUESTION: Is there a way that shareholders can get more information about [what effort is there to ensure that Microsoft is complying with its own business practice standards, and compliance policies]?

    MR. BALLMER: We don't have a published document. But, I feel very good about where we are, there are no violations, none known to any of the executive management team, and I feel like we're in very good touch.

    Microsoft has grown so large, even it's shareholders want to know if there are checks and balances within the company. Anyone have information on what other companies do for compliance of their own standards?
  5. Re:Juicy Excerpt by pubjames · · Score: 5, Insightful


    This is so funny. These guys really don't get it at all, do they? Dangerous for them.

    In the pre-software vision is that there would be no jobs in the software industry, there would be no testers, no engineers, no taxes paid, or anything of that notion.

    Well Bill, all of those things can still exist under an open source model, but it's a different model to yours. Can't you see that?

    If there's a key learning for us, we can't have free software,

    So, Steve, you're saying you're older and wiser than IBM? Than HP? Than Compaq, Sun, Dell, Intel and all the other companies that are contributing to the Open Source community and releaseing code under the GPL? I think not. They get it, you don't.

    It's still in the early phases, but we are massively mobilizing to try to stimulate communities, support communities, and really, if you will, borrow one from their playbook.

    Can anyone point me to any evidence of this? Really? I've honestly tried to find it. Are there disussion boards where developers can openly discuss Microsoft technologies, and MS engineers will chip in with comments? I've looked for that, couldn't find it.

    The clock is ticking Steve, Bill. Let me spell it out for you: YOU DON'T GET IT! If you don't get it soon, you're going to slowly die. Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock.

  6. Re:There really is credit due, but... by dinotrac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft has had a significant hand in creating a common PC platform, and their biggest "contribution" came first.

    That contribution? Convincing IBM to license PC-DOS on a non-exclusive basis. That left Microsoft free to sell MS-DOS to clone makers.

    With the same OS available, only the BIOS needed cloning in order to produce IBM compatible machines.

    No noble intentions, but a very powerful coup.

  7. Re:Juicy Excerpt by JeffL · · Score: 4, Insightful


    we came in and said there should be a platform that's identical with millions and millions of machines, and the bios of that should be open to everybody to use


    I kind of see what BG is saying here, that the free software movement couldn't have taken off without open, commodity hardware. This is wrong. The free software movement, as it came out of RMS and the MIT AI lab was a direct response to proprietary, closed hardware and software. The free software movement grew out of the tradition of open access to software and tools on very non-standard mini computer hardware.


    In the early 80s when the FSF was founded, it was not clear yet that the IBM PC would be such a dominant force in the computing world. Commodity home machines aren't even mentioned in RMS's initial announcement. In fact, he is talking about replacing the system on very expensive, practically custom built machines, which were only found in universities and big businesses.



    Sure, the pervasiveness of computing has been a major boost for free software, but this is a base rate issue (i.e., there are x free software users out of n*x computer users).

  8. Billy is Afraid of the GPL!! by DG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Take a gander at this excerpt: (emphasis added)

    MR. GATES: Let me start out, really the reason that you see open source there at all is because we came in and said there should be a platform that's identical with millions and millions of machines, and the bios of that should be open to everybody to use, and all the extensibility should be there. And so it was very predictable that once we had gotten the PC going, and going and gotten hundreds of millions of machines out there, that it had always been sort of free software and the universities would flourish and there would be more of that. We certainly accept free software as part of the software ecosystem. In fact, there's a very virtuous cycle where people do free things, some people find that adequate, sometimes companies will take that work and turn it into commercial products, those companies will hire people, pay taxes. And so you see the free software and the commercial software existing together.

    There is a particular approach that breaks the cycle called the GPL that is not worth getting into today, but I don't think there is much awareness about how so-called free software foundations designed that to break that cycle

    In terms of getting people excited about software and building communities around them, yes, that is a key to success. Nobody has done that more effectively than we have with Windows. Are there ways that we can do that better? Are there aspects of this where we're actually learning from all our different competitors out there? I think it's fair to say yes.

    In the free-software vision is that there would be no jobs in the software industry, there would be no testers, no engineers, no taxes paid, or anything of that notion. So I certainly don't agree with the full sort of free software foundation view that there should be no jobs in this area, and that the kind of commercial advances and risk taking that we've been able to do you can't get that, you can't get things like speech recognition on a tablet computer coming out of that kind of a paradigm. You can get things that follow along, you can get some smaller software, and so we embraced the idea of the free software paradigm and the commercial software paradigm moving forward in really a self-reinforcing way.

    Sounds like ol' Billy has seen his doom coming, and it's the GPL!

    Take a good hard look at that rambling morass of a quote, and you see the strategy (and the enormous depth of self-delusion) that will be driving Microsoft forward. Free-as-in-Beer, Good! Free-as-in-Speech, Bad!

    In Bill's world, Free Software is fine as a toy, an interim solution, and educational tool, but it takes a company to turn it into something useful! Nothing good ever comes out of the commons!

    Except, of course, the "Microsoft Commons". Funny, when was the last time community work became part of Microsoft, except by force?

    And gee, where have we seen this attitude before?

    How about in the actions of every tin-pot political dictator who tried to buy off the goodwill of his oppressed subjects with free goodies! The barbarians are howling at the Gates, and Bill is offering Microsoft's shareholders bread and circuses!

    Funny thing Bill, those dictators don't have much of a track record....

    Stallman (for all his faults and foibles) is the Martin Luther of the information age, and bill is the Pope. Quick - who can name the Pope who was in service when Luther nailed his manifesto to the door of the cathedral?

    Me neither.

    --
    Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
    1. Re:Billy is Afraid of the GPL!! by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >We certainly accept free software as part of the software ecosystem. In fact, there's a
      >very virtuous cycle where people do free things, some people find that adequate, sometimes companies will take that work and
      >turn it into commercial products, those companies will hire people, pay taxes. And so you see the free software and the
      >commercial software existing together.

      I'm sure that Bill Gates thinks the idea of selling software he obtained that was written by the sweat of people that he doesn't have to pay is extremely virtuous. But let's put that to one side for the moment.

      He also seems to be implying to politicians that they should outlaw the GPL licence so that Microsoft can steal open source software and charge for it, and pay more taxes- this would be a good thing- right?

      Of course the fact that this would allow him to sack quite a lot of Microsoft and would end up reducing the taxes that he pays.

      >In the free-software vision is that there would be no jobs in the software industry, there would be no testers, no engineers, no
      >taxes paid, or anything of that notion. So I certainly don't agree with the full sort of free software foundation view that there
      >should be no jobs in this area, and that the kind of commercial advances and risk taking that we've been able to do you can't
      >get that, you can't get things like speech recognition on a tablet computer coming out of that kind of a paradigm.

      Actually, this is extremely not clear. There's nothing to stop companies financing software that they need for their business and paying for it; and having the software remain open source. After all if one company has the software that it needs, it doesn't mean that its competitor can even use the same software that they use; and to the extent that their competitors can; they both benefit, and each can end up contributing improvements back.

      That's where IBM is coming from- the fact that their main competitors SUN and Micro$oft can't use Linux much doesn't hurt.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
  9. Rhetorically impressive, most impressive by kannen · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You have to admire the man's rhetorical skills. He says its not worth getting into what the GPL is, but in so doing, he implies that the GPL is a mysterious, evil force that is going to keep people from making money. Gates states that the normal business cycle is one in which companies hire people and pay taxes. But the GPL tries to break that, so now you won't be able to feed your family and there won't be any tax money to pay for public schools and neighborhood patrols. Its a terribly insidious idea that the he has planted into peoples heads, and yet he avoids making a single factual statement about the GPL.

    It occurs to me that maybe he should run for public office. His debate skills are most impressive. But then he'd probably find some way to oust the Chancellor, hunt down all the Jedi, and disband the Imperial Senate. (Can't you just see Ballmer jumping up and down in Vader's outfit? Tee hee hee.)

  10. The Open Source comments by shanek · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the meeting transcript:

    Let me start out, really the reason that you see open source there at all is because we came in and said there should be a platform that's identical with millions and millions of machines,

    This is laughably wrong. RMS made the GPL and the Free Software movement in the early 80s, when Gates was still piddling around with DOS and saying that 640K should be enough for anybody. The actual movement started even earlier; the concept of open source predated commercial software.

    In fact, there's a very virtuous cycle where people do free things, some people find that adequate, sometimes companies will take that work and turn it into commercial products, those companies will hire people, pay taxes. And so you see the free software and the commercial software existing together. There is a particular approach that breaks the cycle called the GPL

    Gates apparently doesn't know what a "cycle" is. A cycle, by definition, has to link back up again with its origins, in this case, free software. Microsoft breaks the cycle by incorporating open source code into, for example, its TCP/IP stack. The GPL restores the cycle by requiring developers to give their changes back to the community.

    In the pre-software vision is that there would be no jobs in the software industry, there would be no testers, no engineers, no taxes paid, or anything of that notion.

    Tell that to Red Hat.

    Here's a telling quote from Ballmer:

    If there's a key learning for us, we can't have free software, it's kind of inconsistent with the goals of most people in the room.

    In other words, Microsoft is against freedom in software. Remember, we're talking free speech, not free beer. So all this stuff about "Freedom to Innovate" is nothing more than a thinly veiled apologetic for Microsoft's business practices.