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First Looks at Linux DA PDA
e1en0r writes "My Linux DA PDA finally arrived yesterday. It's a great PDA for under $100. I put up a review of it here. It's very similar to the Palm OS, with a few more interesting features. The most notable being the file manager. You can see where everything is and view all the files in text and hexadecimal mode. It also appears that you can overclock the 16 MHz DragonBall CPU up to 25 MHz. There are some screenshots on their site, which include the CPU Speed application. Unfortunately that application is lacking in documentation." The review is a little thin, but its still cool seeing these in the wild.
Palm IIIxe Hardware Compatible
2 MB Flash Upgradeable
8 MB RAM
Motorola Dragonball CPU
Battery Operated
Color Available - GALAXY GREY
15 Days Technical Support by Email
6 Month Linux DA O/S Software Upgrade
One Year Warranty
DataSync Program Only Available in MS Windows Platform
Includes: Carrying Case, 2 AAA Batteries, PC Sync Cable, CD with PC Sync Program, Quick-Start Manual, Handwriting Guide, Warranty Card, Registration Card
The irony here is while it promotes linux as a pda system, the datasync feature is available for windows only right now.
The product page says " 6 Month Linux DA O/S Software Upgrade", but if it's based on free software, I should always be able to download the latest source and install on the handheld, at least for the kernel, which is obviously GPLd.
It looks like a Palm , only chunkier.
It runs very little software and won't sync.
A linux PDA that doesn't even attempt to sync with anything other than Windows and then fails anyway ?
Seems like a pointless device. Why try to emulate a palm anyway ? If you're going to take them on try to be BETTER.
Seems like a joke device. I wonder if the reviewer would be favourable at all if it wasn't a linux based device ?
I'm a big fan of Linux, but why would I want this instead of kicking a few bucks extra and actually getting a Palm device?
I'm serious here; my Visor does what I want it to, does this solve some problem that existing PDAs don't? It seems like sort of a tough sell, especially when the device has only 15 apps.
Which would be a better buy? The Linux DA goes for $99 and you can get an Agenda VR3 for $119 at Tigerdirect. You have to wait 6-8 weeks for the DA though. The Agenda, right now, has more applications, a faster processor (66Mhz compared to 16-25 for the DA), and more memory but support could be dwindling. As far as pure hacking pleasure goes I'm still tempted to go with the Agenda VR3. Any opinions?
Thank you, drive through.
Here's a related article at LinuxDevices.com. It's not a review, but it has links to more information.
Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
What bugs me about this is not that some company is using the Linux kernel to build a proprietary PDA, but the fact that they so prominently use the Linux name. This is not a "Linux" PDA in any useful sense: it doesn't run Linux utilities, it thumbs its nose at the open source process, and even its kernel software development appears to take part outside the Linux community.
I also wonder whether the company even still has the right to use the Linux kernel. They failed to make source code available for months (I requested it), even though they were distributing binaries. That was a violation of the GPL, and once you violate it, you lose the right to use the code. Also, the source code that they did finally distribute is a mess, and I have my doubts that it even corresponds to the kernel that they ship, which would constitute another GPL violation.
Promotional Photo? A) Why would any self-respecting company use this photo? and B) I feel sorry for whoever this is.
I ordered a Linux DA PDA on Sept. 22 and it finally arrived today (Nov 15). Their website gave me errors when trying to have it shipped to a different address than the billing address, so I had to put the shipping address in the special instructions field. Needless to say it was delivered to my old apartment. Thankfully I thought to go over there and check for it. Aside from the shipping annoyances, I really like this PDA, especially considering that it was under $100.
It's about twice as thick as my Palm Vx and comes with batteries, a data sync cable and a pretty decent case. It looks pretty nice too. There was a lame Linux DA sticker on the case that I peeled off right away, thinking it was just protecting the logo like the cover I peeled off the screen. Heh. Oops. The packaging was nice and it arrived in one piece.
But on to the important details - the PDA itself. I'm very happy with it. It's got a DragonBall EZ 16 MHz processor that you can apparently overclock up to 25 MHz, 8 MB RAM and 2 MB Flash Rom. The physical buttons are pretty much the same as a Palm and there's a backlight and contrast control. It comes with 7 games, 10 applications, and 4 system utilites. A lot of the features are similar to the Palm OS, but it has some cool differences. For one, you can change the keyboard to QWERTY or natural. I also like that you can choose whether or not you want small or large icons. I'm having a little trouble with the handwriting recognition because it's a little different than Palm's. One cool feature is that when you write something it pops up a box showing what you're writing.
My favorite application is the File Manager. It's cool to see where things are, and you can view the files in text and hexadecimal mode. I'm trying to figure out if you can actually do anything with the htdocs directory. It seems strange to have it but with no purpose. I also like the paint application. It's a basic application that lets you draw crude pictures and save them, but it's so fun coloring things in. The games are your basic free games - snake, mine, tetris, etc. Plus there's the standard applications like an Address Book, Expense, Email, Memo, Schedule, Clock, etc. There are some screenshots here.
Unfortunately the software that this comes with only works on Windohs. And it even seems to have problems with that. I'm using Win2k and I'm getting various sync connection errors (COM2 is using by the other program!, Communication error). The strange thing is when I press the sync button, the PC pops up an error and the PDA shows the sync screen but times out. So they're both recognizing the sync request but not connecting. I've tried both serial ports but have had no luck. There is a nice feature that lets me import my Palm addresses and memos. Hopefully I can actually sync them eventually.
Overall I'd say the Palm is easier to use, but if you're looking for a cheap PDA I'd highly recommend this one, assuming that the sync utility will eventually work. It definitely holds its own against the others that I've played with. The lack of software is an issue, however. I haven't found any other applications for it. You can download their development kit, complete with core dump, and try making your own though.
Here are the specs from the official site:
* Manufactured by Linux DA O/S Licensee
* Embedded with Linux DA O/S for PowerPlay III
* Palm IIIxe Hardware Compatible
* 2 MB Flash Upgradeable
* 8 MB RAM
* Motorola Dragonball CPU
* Battery Operated
* Color Available - GALAXY GREY
* 15 Days Technical Support by Email
* 6 Month Linux DA O/S Software Upgrade
* One Year Warranty
* DataSync Program Only Available in MS Windows Platform
* Includes: Carrying Case, 2 AAA Batteries, PC Sync Cable, CD with PC Sync Program, Quick-Start Manual, Handwriting Guide, Warranty Card, Registration Card
Pictures coming soon. Although the pictures on their site are accurate.
Haven't tried this thing yet, but do remember getting my paws on an Agenda a while back - it was pretty neat, especially watching it boot up - made you feel right at home. Ate batteries like it was it's job though (which I guess it kinda was)
Anyway, I don't use PDAs since I took my Visor sailing with me - doh! (WON the sucker from Handspring too, easy come, easy go I guess)
sic transit gloria mundi
Pointless to you (as a Linux user), yes. Pointless to them (as a company), no way. One of the great things about Linux (and Open Source in general) is that everyone now has this awesome repository of code that they can pull from. No longer do people need to start at ground zero in their development cycle, rather they can plunk in code from the Open Source community and get a real jump start.
Now, to get Linux "at the right end" companies just need to be convinced that there is a large enough paying population to justify putting out a product. My bet would be that this is less likely to happen. Even if a company put out a great product that ran on Linux it would likely be cloned, forked, warez or simply not purchased. Typical Linux users don't want to pay for code; if its not Free (as in beer) they don't want it. Now there are some that will plunk down some $$ for a project they like or an application that they need, but overall there is no large market for commercial Linux desktop applications.
I wonder if the reviewer would be favourable at all if it wasn't a linux based device
Nope. The product wouldn't even get to market. Inferrior products don't go anywhere unless they've got some reason to survive. In this case the company hopes that Linux users will buy it (over Palm, etc.) simply because it runs Linux, not because it has better features.
This is just the current state too. We know that Palm is doing all this in an economically viable way, whereas Linux DA may not be and probably is not. In other words, with Palm the continued support and development is pretty much a sure thing...Linux DA on the other hand.....will likely be forced to fold very shortly.
I think it's time we revisit the key details surrounding this story:
It would seem this is actually a convoluted plot to reduce consumer faith in the Linux family of operating systems in favor of Borg alternatives. The viscious Microsoft PR machine has struck again!
"Galaxy grey"!? Since when are galaxies grey? I suppose if you are the sort of guy that wears PDAs and mobile phones in their belt (a bit of the galaxy-coloring is visible around the buttons), things like fashion and colors tend to become a blur.
Opinions stated are mine and do not reflect those of the Illuminati
I can't say i'm terribly impressed with this thing. Only syncs with Windows, no third-party apps (that'll be fixed in time), and even the Windows sync program is broken.
Not to mention, Palm could probably sue them for ripping off their UI... Other than that the fonts are ugly as fuck and not positioned onscreen properly, it looks exactly like PalmOS.
The one thing i'm curious about though : They claim "Hardware compatibility with Palm IIIxe". Does that mean I could buy one of these devices, get a ROM image of PalmOS 3.5 somewhere and throw it onto this $100 handheld? (Slightly illegal, I know, but I'm just wondering if it's possible)
Wow, there's a new PDA out! Let's hack it and put Linux on it!
:)
... oh, wait, it already runs Linux. Move on geeks, nothing to hack here
Petru
I've had my eye on the iPaq H3135. 200MHz StrongARM, 16MB RAM + 16MB ROM. Those specs put the VR3 to shame, and handhelds.org should have all the info on flashing the OS to Linux. Amazon.com is offering them for $150 after rebate.
Note: the status of Linux on the mono iPaq seems to be a little behind the color version, so be sure to check the relevant info on the development site before jumping on the idea.
Well, I didn't make that claim. In fact, I gave the VR3 as an example of what I would consider a true Linux PDA, as opposed to to the "Linux DA".
In fact, I like my VR3 a lot. The only thing it really needs is an MMC expansion slot.
Forgot to turn on the brain again?
One thing I didn't see on the page or any of the follow up comments is about battery life. For such a slow CPU (at least by today's standards), I'd expect a pretty good lifetime. The old Casio Zoomer (c. 1992), a product done with Geoworks and Palm before they started doing their own hardware was slow. Way too slow -- otherwise it probably would have done much better even though it was expensive. But it had a great battery life, something like 100+ hours. Some other products recharge through their sync cradles. What is this one like in that regard?
A friend of mine is an engineer with them. I asked him why use Linux vs. NetBSD (which has a more proprietary-friendly license), QNX, etc.
Apparrently, it was a management decision from the top, and most people agree it was only used so it could get "Linux" buzz. Maybe they'll be as successful as VA Linux...
If I collect all 7, do I get super ultra powers and fly around and fight 5 episode long fight scenes!!!!!! That would be so cool....
It's basically a Palm computer (its probably made in the same factury, on the same line in Taiwan or something), with the Linux OS loaded on instead of Palm OS to save on licensing costs. So they can flog it for under $100.
Some pundits think a good proportion of buyers will just load Palm OS on it (if this as the same one mentioned in an article I read a month ago that was to be released in about a month at a RRP of US$97).
All the hardware is fully Palm OS compatible
Anybody know if you can get to a shell? I'm always looking for another device to run SETI on (hey, I'm a stats whore). ;-)
Why on earth anyone would release such a thing, with the name "Linux" on it, without disclosing all the technical and programming info, as well as the in-house development stuff is beyond me.
The SDK download wants you to agree to a fairly restrictive license, the tar files have cores in them, the docs are almost useless, and there is no way to backup or restore the unit from linux.
Someone at empowered technologies is a very confused person. Without more hacking info, that is easy to get, this thing is doomed.
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