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Mapping Gravity

overThruster writes: "No, you don't need to drink the water... Gravity is less strong in India--enough so that you weigh almost 1% less there. See BBC story about NASA's gravity map." Here's another story about the mission, and the GRACE home page (or NASA's less-informative page).

17 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. More info and links by Boiling_point_ · · Score: 4, Informative

    This was Astronomy Picture of the Day last week.

    Plenty of depth/background available from there, as always!

    --
    "If you create user accounts, by default, they will have an account type of Administrator with no password." KB Q293834
  2. This is so COOL! by Freedryk · · Score: 4, Informative

    Mapping the geoid is one of the most fundamental problems in oceanography. Ocean currents are all basically caused by water running downhill. The problem is that "downhill" in this case is relative to the geoid, which is a bumpy, not-nice surface. With this kind of map, we should be able to map surface currents from space; their velocity, their position, everything you want to know about how the surface currents are moving. This is important for climate studies of global warming, since the ocean currents are one of the main transporters of heat from the equator to the poles. This will allow us to get a much better idea of where the heat in the world is going, and how long it takes to get there, which in turn will give us a better handle on global warming.
    Oceanographers have been trying to figure out a way to remove the geoid from their equations for a hundred years. Now we can just measure the damn thing. Crazy.

    1. Re:This is so COOL! by ralmeida · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, when you have a slope in the ocean surface the water doesn't run downhill; it runs across the slope. If you have a "seamount", for example, water will circle it clockwise in the northern hemisphere.

      Most of the large scale circulation is the result of the subtropical wind circulation, and small anomalies in the geoid will be insignificant. Also, part of the ocean circulation has a thermohaline nature, and is forced by the distribution of salt and temperature across the world.

      (Yes, I'm an oceanographer)

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      This space left intentionally blank.
  3. Re:okaaaaaay by Soko · · Score: 2, Informative

    Weight != mass, dude. 1 tonne of mass takes just as much energy to move 1 kilometer across the earths surface, whether it exerts 1 "tonne of force" or 0.9 "tonnes of force" due to gravity. Basic physics. UPS hasn't ripped you off (not like they did to this guy, anyway). It's only when you go vertical that you have to counter gravity - and that's when weight becomes significant.

    Oh, and the SI unit of force is a Newton (N), which is a kilogram-meter per second squared (k-m/s&#178). One tonne (1000 kilograms) of mass would exert 9.8 KN (KiloNewtons) of force at mean gravity on the earth. Weight apprears to be the same mass since we use gravity to comapre masses, but they are not the same. As well, in the US and Imperial systems, 1 lb of mass exerts 1 lb of force - just to be confusing.

    That concludes tonight's lecture. (My Physics teacher would be so proud. *snif*)

    Soko

    --
    "Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
  4. Re:okaaaaaay by Chep · · Score: 2, Informative

    >>As well, in the US and Imperial systems, 1 lb of mass exerts 1 lb of force - just to be confusing.
    <<

    Actually, in metric land (precisely, in the land of the metre), the kilogram-force (kgf) has been in widespread use, about a century ago. It was more or less equal to the gravity force exerced by earth on a piece of matter with a mass of 1 kg. It took several decades to get rid of that unit (you can still sometimes see indications like "max 2000 kgf" on cranes in old workshops).
    Nowadays, low-level mechanics are taught to use the decanewton (daN) as their primary unit of force (be it weight or any other force)... no wonder why !

  5. And what about... by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...the fact that moving at speeds approaching the speed of light will cause you to move faster through time, so that if you left Earth, travelled at near light speeds, and then came back shortly afterwards, 100 years might have elapsed on Earth in what you perceived as about 10 minutes.

    I think that physical laws like this have a very significant effect on the lumpiness of the Earth, and therefore, on the variations in gravitational pull.

    Imagine that you're running down a square field, from one side to the side parallel to it, and it takes you 10 minutes to run across this field. Ok, now imagine that you're running across the same field, but instead of running "straight," you're running at an angle, so that you're not perpendicular to the edges of the field that you're running from and to. It will take you a bit longer to get to the other side of the field, even though you're running at the same speed, because by going at an angle, you've increased the distance you have to go to get from one edge to the other.

    Now suppose we call the field a 2-dimensional surface, like a piece of paper. You could say that the first time you ran across the field, you travelled along one axis, or dimension--let's say the X axis. But on the way back, you ran at an angle, which means that you've gone along two axes, the X and Y axes. But you went the same speed. This means that you have split the same speed across two dimensions.

    We say that time is a fourth dimension. Now picture this: No matter what's happening, you're ALWAYS moving through the 4 axes (the three "space" dimensions and the one "time" dimension) at exactly the speed of light. It's just that you're splitting that speed (the speed of light) across some combination of the 4 dimensions. You're doing one of the following:

    • Standing perfectly still in the 3 space dimensions and moving only through time. (I know that motion is relative, but imagine for a moment that your motion is relative to the universe itself and that you can guarentee that you're really not moving through space at all but only through time). Therefore, you're moving through time at the speed of light.
    • You're moving through space and time, which means you're splitting your motion across at least one of the space dimensions and the fourth time dimension, which means that you're moving somewhat more slowly through time. If you're going through space really really fast, whatever speed is left over for time will be much smaller. So if you're moving through space at speeds approaching the speed of light, what might be 10 minutes for you might be a much longer time for everybody else. Because you're moving through time much more slowly, since you're using up all that speed in the other dimensions.
    • You're only moving through space itself and are therefore not moving through time at all. Photons, which are light particles, do this. Since they're light, they move through space at the speed of light. (Yeah, that makes sense, right?) This means that there is NO speed left over for moving through time. As a result, if a photon travels in a straight line, it is EVERYWHERE along that line at the same time. We think it takes 8 minutes for a photon leaving the sun to arrive at Earth, because we're the outside world. For the photon, the trip was instantaneous, but for us, it took 8 minutes. Just like if you're travelling through space really really fast (almost the speed of light), you'll think it was 10 minutes but for us it was 100 years.

    I think all of these physical laws have a very significant effect on the lumpiness of the Earth, and therefore, on the variations in gravitational pull.

    And, of course, the obligatory OH WELL.

    1. Re:And what about... by mgv · · Score: 2, Informative

      We say that time is a fourth dimension. Now picture this: No matter what's happening, you're ALWAYS moving through the 4 axes (the three "space" dimensions and the one "time" dimension) at exactly the speed of light. It's just that you're splitting that speed (the speed of light) across some combination of the 4 dimensions. You're doing one of the following:

      Yes, yes, its all true. We all move through space time at a constant speed (Except when I'm waking up in the morning).

      But these effects are relavistic. You have to be travelling at near light speed to have an appreciable effect on mass or gravity. They do apply to high speed subatomic particles, but these are pretty few and far between on the planet in terms of total mass.

      I think that the variations in gravity relate to variations in mass density of the earth more than anything else.

      Michael

      --
      There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
    2. Re:And what about... by dragons_flight · · Score: 5, Informative

      You make some elementary mistakes, but I'm only going to deal with two of them.

      First off relativity has nothing to do with variations in the earth gravitational field. This is entirely related to the fact that the mass density of the materials making up the earth are not uniformly distributed. Some rocks are denser than others, and moisture and magma move around. Relativistic mass scales as 1/Sqrt[1-v^2/c^2], where v is an objects velocity and c is is the speed of light. Thus for a 1% increase in mass you would have to identify objects moving at > 14% of c as measured by a stationary observer on the Earth's surface. Besides which this deals with inertial mass (F=ma), but gravitational fields (F=G*m1*m2/r^2) are more complicated in a relativistic framework.

      Standing perfectly still in the 3 space dimensions and moving only through time. (I know that motion is relative, but imagine for a moment that your motion is relative to the universe itself and that you can guarentee that you're really not moving through space at all but only through time). Therefore, you're moving through time at the speed of light.

      There is NO UNIVERSAL FRAME OF REFERENCE. When not accelerating everyone experiences time as moving at the same constant rate, and ALL are equally justified in saying they are moving solely in the time direction. One person observering another having a nonzero relatively velocity will interpret their motion as having decreased temporal component and appropriately increased spatial component(s). Sometimes it is useful for someone to interpret their own motion in terms of another person's perspective (such as saying the car is moving along the ground as opposed to saying the ground is moving under me), but this makes no difference to the objective or subjective experience.

    3. Re:And what about... by mmontour · · Score: 3, Informative

      "The frame of reference in which the microwave background radiation of the universe is stationary" Hmmm, I'm not a physicist & it's quite possible that this statement might mean somthing other then what one would logically assume it to buuuut - where might this be?

      I think the original poster meant something like "the frame of reference in which the dipole anisotropy of the CMBR vanishes".

      Right now, measurements of the microwave background radiation are blue-shifted in one direction and red-shifted in the opposite direction. If a spaceship left earth and accelerated toward the red-shift, it would eventually see the red- and blue-shifts disappear. You could then say that the spacecraft was "at rest" in the universe. However it gets more complicated when you have to consider the expansion of the universe - two distant observers can each be locally "at rest" yet they will have a relative velocity.

      (google on "COBE" for more information)

  6. Re:okaaaaaay by rabidcow · · Score: 2, Informative

    As well, in the US and Imperial systems, 1 lb of mass exerts 1 lb of force

    The pound is never a measure of mass, the "imperial" mass unit is the slug.

  7. Re:Launches... by shaunak · · Score: 3, Informative

    "Should we expect to see more US companies building launch facilities in SE Asia after this report has been out a while?"

    Not the least bit likely. India has it's own launching agency, Indian Space Research Organisation. They currently launch satellites using Polar Satellite Launch Vehicles, and have actually launched a Geosynchronous Satellite using an indigenously designed Launch Vehicle. They're close to breakthrough on indigenous cryogenic engines for the GSLV which they had to develope from scratch because of the US of A feeling threatened by the transfer of technology from Russia. (The launch used Russian engines).

    The fact is, the Indian government is a launching agency, and getting permission to set up a private launch facility is not possible.

    Besides, ISRO are said to provide the cheapest (money wise) launches compaired to Airaine and NASA.

    --
    -Shaunak.
  8. Re:Soo... by Dyolf+Knip · · Score: 3, Informative

    As I recall, the debate is between an asteroid/comet impact in the Yucatan vs a violent and prolonged period of volcanic activity in India causing the mass extinctions 65 MYears ago. Both would produce huge amounts of dust and ash and lay waste to whole continents. Problem is, geology can't quite pin down which one caused it. Hell, it could be both that pushed them over the edge, though the timing for that would be rather amazing.

    --
    Dyolf Knip
  9. earth doesnt have any gravity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    gravity
    n 1: the force of attraction between all masses in the universe;
    especially the attraction of the earth's mass for bodies
    near its surface; "gravitation cannot be held
    responsible for people falling in love"--Albert Einstein
    [syn: {gravitation}, {gravitational attraction}, {gravitational
    force}]

  10. Re:Let me get this straight... by raduga · · Score: 2, Informative
    Ok, Troll-feeding time!
    Since I don't have any karma I can't lose it :)

    The worst terrorist attack in recorded history occurred on September 11th, and now we're involved in a WAR against Islam and you people have the gall to be discussing mapping gravity????

    Yes, we have the gall.

    Ask NAVO (the Naval Oceanographic Office) just how much gall they have, mapping gravity over the surface of the seas! In the Old Days, before nifty toys like Satellite Gravity, we used to grid the earth's field by taking in situ measurements all over; *much* of which was done by oceanographic research vessels

    Now, a good portion of that gravity grid was done for nice oceanographic or geologic reasons; if you know the density of the stuff below you, you can get a pretty good guess at the shape and contents of the seafloor below, but curiously, the more sensitive and more accurate gravity meters were owned and operated by the USN.

    Why is that? Because a good map of the gravity patterns of the sea floor can help with navigating around it, when you *haven't* the luxuries of GPS or loran or other positioning systems.

    Submarines!

    Gravity maps done by NAVO ships in the Indian Ocean (which have greater detail and precision than the NASA maps, even if they are much narrower and smaller region of coverage) are quite possibly as we speak, helping guide USN subs in the vicinity, as they prepare for any lurking regional threats.

    For a quick glimpse of grav fluctuations in the south pacific, as recorded on a Navy Gravimeter (aboard a civilian research ship) try at the bottom

    Anyway, most everyone in the Oceanographic community is really excited about satellite gravity, since its coverage is just about universal (except for the poles) but we still lug out the Bell Aerospace meters (ugly black things) from port to port.

    If anyone were interested, I could post descriptions of how some or any of these things work, except this is slashdot and this post will probably end up as (Score:-1, TrollFood)

    --
    First, nothing begins if not opening
  11. Yucatan not India by ZigMonty · · Score: 2, Informative
    IIRC the asteroid theory only gained popularity when they found that huge son of a bitch hole in the Yucatan peninsula and managed to date it to 65 million years ago, which matched the time of the Cretaceous extinctions.

    It's huge. It's only hidden because it's under water. Check here for pictures of said hole in the ground.

  12. Re:Oh, it's not actually LAUNCHED yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    One satellite that was launched and is busy producing data, is CHAMP. It too is mapping the Earth's gravity field, by virtue of GPS tracking and a three-axes accelerometer. And it is sounding the atmosphere by GPS limb sounding, just like GRACE will do and METSAT has been doing some time ago already.

    For those not aware of the importance of GPS limb sounding, it is a method to determine indirectly the scale height and thus temperature around the tropopause, a useful indicator for global warming.

    Actually one thing nobody here has pointed out is that GRACE aims at studying changes in the gravity field, mostly due to movements of ocean water, ground water, ice, air etc. etc. (in short, the 'blue film' we see in space photographs of Earth!). The sensitivity of the GRACE mission, which will consist of a satellite pair tracking each other, to such changes is quite unbelievable.

  13. Re:Let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Good explanation. Thanks!

    Two more things though.

    1) The gravity field of the oceans can be mapped from space by using satellite radar altimetry. One Navy satellite especially launched for this was GEOSAT. The detailed altimetry data from this mission was long classified, until equivalent data became available from the ERS-1 mission...

    It works by mapping the precise shape of the ocean surface from space, from a known orbit. Assuming that the ocean surface is in hydrostatic equilibrium, this gives you the geoid ("mean sea level"). The assumption is wrong, of course, which is where the "real" satellite gravity missions -- and in-situ measurements -- come in.

    2) The reason the Navy wants to have the precise gravity field is not only to be able to use inertial navigation themselves (for the submarines), but also, and especially, to know the direction of the vertical at the precise location where those Poseidon missiles take off. They too use inertial guidance, and the platform aligns with local gravity before launch! If they take off in a direction that is 5'' wrong, due to an erroneous local vertical deflection, that translates into a 150 m targeting error at 6000 km.

    For some reason this is not considered good enough ;-)