Posted by
michael
on from the soon-to-be-illegal dept.
Tauvix writes: "AnandTech is running an in-depth article on the hardware of the X-box as compared to a PC, the PS2, and the Gamecube. There's some very interesting suprises and commentary on what was done right, and what could have been done better."
what's really needed is the investment into making a game that makes use of all the new geforce 3 hardware. having console games made for the xbox (then probably being very easily ported to windows) will mean a larger amount of investment in pc games in the long run.
Is it worth Hacking
by
slashnik
·
· Score: 4, Informative
It is said that the XBox is being sold at a loss but does that automatically mean that it is a good deal if it is hacked to make a general purpose computer. The CPU is soldered and non-upgradeable, the memory again is soldered and non upgradeable. The hard disk and PSU are "non standard"
Can an open platform, boxed general purpose computer with similar spec be built for the same or simlar money
Anyone who says that the XBox would make a good cluster node should price up a similar spec motherboard + CPU + memory + NIC+ case. I believe that this should come in cheaper and be far more upgradeable
What are the other uses for a hacked XBox
slashnik
Single page article
by
purplemonkeydan
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Protect your sanity and view the whole article on one page here, rather than clicking 'Next' 100 times and downloading heaps of ads.
From the article:
Microsoft has yet to announce their official plans for taking the Xbox online and unfortunately by default the Xbox's Ethernet port is not set to receive an IP from a DHCP server
Perhaps there some sort of Xbox ISP in the works exclusive to MS? A XMSN, if you will? If so, are Xbox owners need a membership to play games remotely?
Interesting Look
by
r.suzuka
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
I read through the article and perhaps I did not understand it completely but I believe the writer may have been missing the points overall.
In Japan, the market for consoles is perhaps much greater than it is in the United States. Many people have a computer but not as many as have a console. Instead of looking at the Xbox as a console, I believe it was looked at as a dedicated gaming computer. Does that make sense? Please correct me if I am unclear.
I believe that the writer missed many of the reason for the popularity and technical strength of consoles. For a console, a developer of course knows what sort of hardware his program will be running on, and he has specialized tools from the console maker to help him in his development. That is not found so much with a computer (though it is with the Xbox). Quite a bit can be done without enormous quantities of RAM as consoles through out history have shown. If you remember the Zelda game for the Nintendo 64, it would run on only 4 MB of RAM. I would like to see PC games do that ^_^
I also did not see a comparison of the Xbox to the Nintendo GameCube. I have had a GameCube since it was released two months ago and I am very pleased with it so far. I may even enjoy it more than my PlayStation 2. I believe that the GameCube is a worthy competitor to the Xbox.
I am making the point that consoles are not meant to be personal computers and they should not be judged in that way. The Xbox is a impressive dedicated gaming PC in many respects if developers will learn to fully utilize its power, but as a console, I do not prefer it.
Thank you for reading this long post of mine. Once again please correct me if I am not clear in what I say. Thank you.
R. Suzuka
Re:Interesting Look
by
JabberWokky
·
· Score: 5, Funny
Anwyay, while the US is pretty fanatical about the consoles, I think the Japanese are much more so. How many times have you heard about public launch parties that drew hundreds if not thousands?
Slashdot Helpful Hint #681: When telling someone what you think it might be like in another country (oh, say... Japan), make sure that the person that you are replying to isn't, oh... say... named R. Suzuka and a student of Physics at the University of Tokyo.
--
Evan
-- "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
What was done right:
The xbox acts as a cooker itself! no need to buy a microwave to warm up that pizza, just put it on the xbox!
Expensive heating is now cut down thanks to the myraid of heat exhauts on the Xbox
Balance your Tv, VCR and kitchen sink on the xbox's overly large service
Use the controller as an inexpensive door stop: big enough for even the heaviest of doors.
With all the versetile uses of the x box, we say use this common daily appliance in your every day life, coming soon: a hack to reverse the exhauts so the xbox doubles as a vacum!
P.s. for those with no humour, yes, this was a joke post.
-- Microsoft IIS is to webserving as KFC is to healthy eating
Wonderfull Design, but Perhaps Unflexable
by
zulux
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
The XBox has some fantastic hardware, but it puts the developer in a DirectX 8.1 sandbox. If the game is a 3D, with textures and snazy vertex shading, then the Xbox hardware is wonderfull.
If the programmer needs somthing else: like generateing all the textures using algorithms, or simulating deformable shapes on a per-pixel basis, that the design like the massivly parrallel and massivly flexible PS2 really shines.
Anand had a great example of this: Electronic A rts just used one of the the PS2 vector units to encode Dolby 5.1. sound. Thats flexible.
It's kinda like compairing the Atari 2600 to the ColecoVision - the Atari was really felxible but limited in processing power, but Coleco had a wonderfull sprite chip and a great processor.
Unfortunatly the Coleco design was inflexable, and Atari programmers were able for move the 2600 from being a pong macheine, into generating alomost thoushands of colors and thousands of sounds. The Coleco had decent games, but nobody was able to coax anything truly unique out of it.
Perhaps the PS2 will do a likewise transformation.
--
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Re:Wonderfull Design, but Perhaps Unflexable
by
TheMoog
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
If the programmer needs somthing else: like generateing all the textures using algorithms, or simulating deformable shapes on a per-pixel basis, that the design like the massivly parrallel and massivly flexible PS2 really shines.
...it shines if you like programming an almost impossible-to-debug multiprocessor system. Orchestrating four separate processors with DMA accesses flying over limited bus power is tricky. Plus Xbox, though DX8-based is not just DX8, it's superficially similar but greatly optimized and tailored specifically for Xbox.
Xbox has UMA too, which means the CPU can get in and address textures directly itself, unlike on the PS2 where DMAs have to be set up to talk to texture memory, so in fact it's easier on Xbox to generate the textures using algorithms, as you describe.
As for 'simulating deformable shapes on a per-pixel basis' I've been in the graphics trade for five years, and have never heard such a made up bunch of junk. You want deformable shapes? Cool; you can either dump polys completely and write your own renderer, in which case Xbox will beat PS2 as it has a faster processor, and none of the specialist rendering hardware in either box can help you. If you mean deformable as in morphing/procedurally modified vertices, then both machine are equal. If you mean procedural generation of geometry, then granted, the PS2 shines here, though it's not as if Xbox can't do it. As for anything 'per-pixel' the PS2 can render a single texture per-pixel at a time. Only Xbox and GameCube can do anything like arbitrary per-pixel operations.
Anand had a great example of this: Electronic A rts just used one of the the PS2 vector units to encode Dolby 5.1. sound. Thats flexible.
Granted, that is cool; but you are of course giving up 30% of your processing power to do something Xbox does in hardware. All credit to them though!
Re:Wonderfull Design, but Perhaps Unflexable
by
zulux
·
· Score: 5, Funny
"Inflexible" and "wonderful". Failing english should be unpossible for someone who's been speaking it as long as you have.
I always thought that Slashdot needed a spell check, but who need a spell check nowadays, when there are so many useless people with so much time on their hands that they voluntarily correct your postings for you?
--
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Earliest computer entertainment devices?
by
WowTIP
·
· Score: 4, Interesting
From article: But although PC gamers have taken the lime light recently, every true PC gamer and most PC users in general can trace their roots back to the earliest of computer-entertainment devices: videogame consoles.
Most people I know started out on Commodore 64, Sinclair or some of the other early home computers. In fact, I think most people that started out on computers are still gaming on computers (PC). Those that started out on consoles still pretty much run consoles.
But that's just my buddies... Might differ...
--
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
Anand wrote a very good article with plenty of meat and potatos to satisfy but I think he is sort of missing a very important point. He mentions in the article how the PS2 falls behind the XBox in some way because it has less fancy graphics and sound capabilities. SONY HAS SOLD NEARLY 20 MILLION OF THE FUCKING THINGS AND HAS HUNDREDS OF GAMES AVAILABLE FOR IT. I think Anand needs to reassess his position on the PS2. It is still selling for 300$ because people are still eating it up at this price. The XBox may be able to do a bajillion polygons per second but it still doesn't have the game franchises that make bank on console systems. Nintendo's also in a good position because they are destined to get the little kids who want to play Pokemon until their eyes fall out. Who cares if Pikachu's only rendered with half a million fucking surfaces, people want to play the games not write a master's thesis on the theoretical graphic capabilities of a computer system. I bought a GC on my way home from Louisiana and since I've been home my brother's been playing Rogue Squadron almst non-stop. He hasn't yet complained about the lack of theoretical polygons the GC can render yet and I sort of doubt he will. The XBox will only truely contend with Nintendo and Sony when it has games in high demand. I thought it's launch titles were pretty crappy compared to the GC's though a little better than what the PS2 originally offered. Besides that I got a GC and two games for the price of either the PS2 or XBox.
Slashdot Mirror
what's really needed is the investment into making a game that makes use of all the new geforce 3 hardware. having console games made for the xbox (then probably being very easily ported to windows) will mean a larger amount of investment in pc games in the long run.
(also possibly a monopoly on the games market)
free (as in mp3s) electronic music
It is said that the XBox is being sold at a loss but does that automatically mean that it is a good deal if it is hacked to make a general purpose computer. The CPU is soldered and non-upgradeable, the memory again is soldered and non upgradeable. The hard disk and PSU are "non standard"
Can an open platform, boxed general purpose computer with similar spec be built for the same or simlar money
Anyone who says that the XBox would make a good cluster node should price up a similar spec motherboard + CPU + memory + NIC+ case. I believe that this should come in cheaper and be far more upgradeable
What are the other uses for a hacked XBox
slashnik
Protect your sanity and view the whole article on one page here, rather than clicking 'Next' 100 times and downloading heaps of ads.
Perhaps there some sort of Xbox ISP in the works exclusive to MS? A XMSN, if you will? If so, are Xbox owners need a membership to play games remotely?
I read through the article and perhaps I did not understand it completely but I believe the writer may have been missing the points overall.
In Japan, the market for consoles is perhaps much greater than it is in the United States. Many people have a computer but not as many as have a console. Instead of looking at the Xbox as a console, I believe it was looked at as a dedicated gaming computer. Does that make sense? Please correct me if I am unclear.
I believe that the writer missed many of the reason for the popularity and technical strength of consoles. For a console, a developer of course knows what sort of hardware his program will be running on, and he has specialized tools from the console maker to help him in his development. That is not found so much with a computer (though it is with the Xbox). Quite a bit can be done without enormous quantities of RAM as consoles through out history have shown. If you remember the Zelda game for the Nintendo 64, it would run on only 4 MB of RAM. I would like to see PC games do that ^_^
I also did not see a comparison of the Xbox to the Nintendo GameCube. I have had a GameCube since it was released two months ago and I am very pleased with it so far. I may even enjoy it more than my PlayStation 2. I believe that the GameCube is a worthy competitor to the Xbox.
I am making the point that consoles are not meant to be personal computers and they should not be judged in that way. The Xbox is a impressive dedicated gaming PC in many respects if developers will learn to fully utilize its power, but as a console, I do not prefer it.
Thank you for reading this long post of mine. Once again please correct me if I am not clear in what I say. Thank you.
R. Suzuka
Welcome to the Xbox, a nerds best friend:
What was done right:
The xbox acts as a cooker itself! no need to buy a microwave to warm up that pizza, just put it on the xbox!
Expensive heating is now cut down thanks to the myraid of heat exhauts on the Xbox
Balance your Tv, VCR and kitchen sink on the xbox's overly large service
Use the controller as an inexpensive door stop: big enough for even the heaviest of doors.
With all the versetile uses of the x box, we say use this common daily appliance in your every day life, coming soon: a hack to reverse the exhauts so the xbox doubles as a vacum!
P.s. for those with no humour, yes, this was a joke post.
Microsoft IIS is to webserving as KFC is to healthy eating
The XBox has some fantastic hardware, but it puts the developer in a DirectX 8.1 sandbox. If the game is a 3D, with textures and snazy vertex shading, then the Xbox hardware is wonderfull.
o mbat.JPG
If the programmer needs somthing else: like generateing all the textures using algorithms, or simulating deformable shapes on a per-pixel basis, that the design like the massivly parrallel and massivly flexible PS2 really shines.
Anand had a great example of this: Electronic A rts just used one of the the PS2 vector units to encode Dolby 5.1. sound. Thats flexible.
It's kinda like compairing the Atari 2600 to the ColecoVision - the Atari was really felxible but limited in processing power, but Coleco had a wonderfull sprite chip and a great processor.
Unfortunatly the Coleco design was inflexable, and Atari programmers were able for move the 2600 from being a pong macheine, into generating alomost thoushands of colors and thousands of sounds. The Coleco had decent games, but nobody was able to coax anything truly unique out of it.
The Atari 2600 went from Combat http://outerspace.terra.com.br/special/historia/c
to psudo 3D Poleposition http://www.whimsey.com/z26/POLEPSN.GIF due to it's fexibility.
Perhaps the PS2 will do a likewise transformation.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
From article:
But although PC gamers have taken the lime light recently, every true PC gamer and most PC users in general can trace their roots back to the earliest of computer-entertainment devices: videogame consoles.
Most people I know started out on Commodore 64, Sinclair or some of the other early home computers. In fact, I think most people that started out on computers are still gaming on computers (PC). Those that started out on consoles still pretty much run consoles.
But that's just my buddies... Might differ...
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
Anand wrote a very good article with plenty of meat and potatos to satisfy but I think he is sort of missing a very important point. He mentions in the article how the PS2 falls behind the XBox in some way because it has less fancy graphics and sound capabilities. SONY HAS SOLD NEARLY 20 MILLION OF THE FUCKING THINGS AND HAS HUNDREDS OF GAMES AVAILABLE FOR IT. I think Anand needs to reassess his position on the PS2. It is still selling for 300$ because people are still eating it up at this price. The XBox may be able to do a bajillion polygons per second but it still doesn't have the game franchises that make bank on console systems. Nintendo's also in a good position because they are destined to get the little kids who want to play Pokemon until their eyes fall out. Who cares if Pikachu's only rendered with half a million fucking surfaces, people want to play the games not write a master's thesis on the theoretical graphic capabilities of a computer system. I bought a GC on my way home from Louisiana and since I've been home my brother's been playing Rogue Squadron almst non-stop. He hasn't yet complained about the lack of theoretical polygons the GC can render yet and I sort of doubt he will. The XBox will only truely contend with Nintendo and Sony when it has games in high demand. I thought it's launch titles were pretty crappy compared to the GC's though a little better than what the PS2 originally offered. Besides that I got a GC and two games for the price of either the PS2 or XBox.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.