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Enterprise Linux: Are We There Yet?

Simon Crosby writes " Network Computing is running an special report on Linux in the enterprise. It evaluates strengths and weaknesses of Linux useage in the enterprise. It also discusses perceptions, roadblocks, security, clustering and other Linux enterprise issues."

20 of 169 comments (clear)

  1. Linux in the Enterprise... by nsample · · Score: 5, Funny


    ...will definitely give Picard an advantage over the Borg.

    1. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Funny

      Linux is not ready for the Enterprise. There is not a single voice-controlled app for any of the mission-critical functions of the Enterprise. Conspicuously absent are warp core control, phaser bank activation, interstellar navigation, transporter operation and the all-important self destruct sequence. Until these and thousands of other important apps are written and deployed, Linux will just be a toy in the Enterprise.

    2. Re:Linux in the Enterprise... by IpalindromeI · · Score: 3, Funny

      Conspicuously absent are [snip] and the all-important self destruct sequence.

      shutdown -h +10 Self destruction in ten minutes.

      --

      --
      Promoting critical thinking since 1994.
  2. Lack of Apps by Jeff+Kelly · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Are we there yet? certainly not. Linux has shown in the last few years that it is an alternative, although it still cannot compete in every Aspect with commercial Un*x Systems. (Especially Performance)

    The greatest drawback for using Linux in your Enterprise is not the Performance issue but lack of Applications. Many Porting efforts are still beta, (Or do you consider Oracle to be stable on Linux?) or simply not done.

    It is still difficult to convince the big software firms to actually consider Linux as an alternative, especially in the Enterprise computing field.

    There has still much lobbying to be done.

    Jeff

    1. Re:Lack of Apps by ppetru · · Score: 5, Informative

      While it's true that not all the un*x-based apps have been ported, most of them are there. Examples:

      • Oracle -- which is rock solid, and you can get support contracts from Oracle for the Linux platform (the company I work for uses Oracle/Linux in a mission critical environment and it works just fine).
      • All the other big databases (IBM DB2, Clustra, Informix, Sybase, etc)
      • Lots and lots of movie and animation production tools (Maya, Entropy, etc). Linux is really popular now amongst graphics and movie professionals.

      The list could go on, but you get my point. What's more important are the advantages of Linux: superb development tools, open architecture, world-wide support, and so on.

      On the performance front, it seems that you're not aware of the fact that Solaris (and other unices) scale up so well to high-end boxes at the expense of low-end performance. In case you didn't know it, the Linux kernel smokes away Solaris (in terms of syscall latency, throughput, response time, network performance and a couple other points) on servers with up to 4-8 CPUs.

      --

      Petru
  3. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by Ami+Ganguli · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd mostly agree, except I'd exclude some high-end hardware. It'll take another couple of years before you're running Linux happily on a 64 CPU box.

    But if you're comfortable running NT or SCO in your enterprise, then Linux should be no problem. I'd even go so far as to say that Linux has always been more enterprise-ready than NT. The first version of NT that was reasonably stable was Windows 2000. Linux was solid much sooner.

    --
    It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
  4. MS Word by magi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think MS Word interoperability is perhaps the single most important barrier limiting companies from changing to Linux. Other Office products such as MS Excel and MS Powerpoint are also important.

    You should remember that it's not just necessary to have some semi-lousy import filters to Linux word-processors, but also have 100% compatible export filters. It's practically impossible to make a transition in any company that has to communicate with an existing MS Word user base. And that is the case for almost any companies and public administration.

    And 99% doesn't do, it must be 100.000%. If there are even small incompatibilities, you have to use genuine MS Word -> MS Windows.

    StarOffice 6.0 beta (same as OpenOffice build 638c) has some compatibility in basic formatting. The older StarOffice 5.2 has, in my experience, much better MS Word compatibility, but it also breaks up quite quickly. However, its Excel compatibility is worse than with SO6.0b/OO638c.

    KOffice (1.1) is not even worth mentioning with regard to MS Office compatibility. Its Word import filter simply strips all formatting, and it doesn't have an export filter.

    I work in an IT company, doing purely Linux work, but have to do all documentation, communication, and administrative tasks with MS Office. I was able to use StarOffice 5.2 for a while in some tasks, but can't rely on it completely. The situation really sucks.

    1. Re:MS Word by joeytsai · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is true, but unfortunately, this is very, very, very hard. Speaking as someone who's worked in the filters area of a major company's word processor (think what used to be Word's competition back in the day) filters are horribly complex and making a quality filter is just grueling... and we're not even talking about a "100%" one.

      In fact, even Microsoft's filters aren't very good. Naturally, most people don't even notice it because .doc has become the de facto standard.

      And this is where the situation is bad: if filters aren't that great in commercial word processors, with full time paid programmers, they will be long coming in Linux. Let's be honest, people working on projects for fun will probably have the itch to do something much more interesting and noticable.

      But you're right, .doc is the standard on the vast majority of computers today, so have great import filters is needed. However, I think it would be a better idea for the focus of the different Office suites to be a common file format. All the groups - Gnome, KDE, OpenOffice, should really decide on a XML based format and work together on the .doc import.

      How are we going to compete with the Windows world, which has one common file format (albeit terrible) when our own different office suites each have their own file format (which will naturally mean even more filters)?

      --
      http://www.talknerdy.org
  5. "who do you sue?" by kevin+lyda · · Score: 5, Insightful

    could this question please die? considering the realities behind shrinkwrap licenses and ever dedicated support contracts, you can't sue anyone. and even if you could - how can you hope to win? the us gov't sued microsoft and look at how victorious it was?

    a better question is: if things go wrong with widget x, what are my options to get it fixed? with closed s/w, the only option is the vendor you got it from (and really, knowing that, do you want to sue them?). with free software you can use your vendor, another vendor, your own staff, or private contractors (and knowing that, you could feel free to sue your vendor; assuming they failed to live up to their support contract).
    note: i'm assuming in an enterprise situation you'd have some sort of support contract with ibm, redhat, microsoft, suse, sun, linuxcare, apple, etc.

    --
    US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
    1. Re:"who do you sue?" by fanatic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      a better question is: if things go wrong with widget x, what are my options to get it fixed? with closed s/w, the only option is the vendor you got it from (and really, knowing that, do you want to sue them?). with free software you can use your vendor, another vendor, your own staff, or private contractors

      Someone, please, mod this up some more.

      --
      "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
  6. Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be there? by fanatic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    (Some is also legal... if you run into a snafu with kernel 2.6.1, who can you sue??).

    You sound like you've got a good view of the issue, but this sentence cries for rebuttal. When, oh WHEN, will pople stop parroting this nonsense? Any CIO that uses this as an argument against OpenSource/Free software is a moron. I challenge anyone, anywhere, to give evidence that anyone has ever collected a single penny from suing a mass-market software maker for shoddy code. If MS didn't lose their shirt over putrid crap like win3.x or win9x, with it's dll-hell and semi-annnual re-install schedule, how can anyone get sued?

    --
    "that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
  7. Re:The definition of 'Enterprise' by smoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Enterprise" has two components, first is the relatively straightforward "Core Application" of a company, which might be some sort of ERP system like PeopleSoft, or some other commercial produce. For many companies, this will be an amalgamation of custom programs written over many years. These applications are typically based on some form of transaction processing system (e.g. CICS on the Mainframe, Tuxedo on Unix, or even database-driven transactions ala Oracle, DB2, etc.)

    The second, and more critical part of 'Enterprise' is the nature of the computing service. Generally any outage is measured in dollars per minute or hour. It's not unusual for a large company to face severe monetary losses for even slight outages. Think millions of dollars an hour (or even per minute). This measure tends to be a little slippery, but with some analysis a pretty solid figure can usually be determined.

    For some enterprises, Linux might make complete sense (e.g. Google). For others, the potential of saving a few thousand or hundred thousand in licensing costs pales in comparison to the probable re-training, new hardware, and "potential" instability of moving to Linux. If you've got something that works, why fix it?

    Given the above, even if all of the big 'Enterprise' vendors port their software to Linux, you're not done. Linux clustering in a business context such as Solaris, AIX, and (in the good old days) VMS provide would be one stumbling block. The lack of high-end hardware is another -- and yes I know that Linux runs on anything from a PC to a SPARC server to a S/390 mainframe. In reality, you're unlikely to drop $2million on a big Sun box then load Linux -- you'll want to take advantage of Solaris's dynamic partitioning and other proprietary hooks.

    Loading Linux on diverse old hardware makes business sense -- turn that old Sun box into something useful. It doesn't make nearly as much business sense when buying a new non-intel server, since the license fee of the OS (if any) is negligable compared to the overall value of the system in the 'Enterprise'.

    Over time this is likely to change, since Linux represents a constantly improving and freely available system, vendors will start adopting it as 'their' OS. IBM is an early starter here, but the process will take time. And like a battle of attrition Linux has the advantage over time, since it is constantly improving (for free), while commercial vendors have to dump $millions into R&D to bring out each new version of their OS.

    --
    "But actually trying to use m4 as a general-purpose langage would be deeply perverse" --ESR
  8. Re:Off-topic: Re:Are we there? Will anyone ever be by odaiwai · · Score: 3, Funny

    > And while I'm at it, how about a business app
    > that caused measurable damage in the workplace:
    > MS Word.

    And one that has caused even more: Outlook'

    How many enterprise wide virus scares have shut down communications? All thanks to Outlook and its "wide open and pre-lubricated" approach to security.

    dave

  9. "could this question please die?" by dpilot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, because the question itself is wrong, and is really a red herring.

    It isn't "Who do you sue?" because instead it's really "Who can I blame and send the heat somewhere besides me?" The IT management structure will take heat for any service problems, but with a Microsoft solution they have the perfect blame target. Between "Everybody uses Microsoft," which absolves blame for having chosen them, and the fact that Microsoft is essentially lawsuit-proof, between their EULA and size/tactics, things are nicely diffused. Doesn't keep the systems up an running, but at least you're suffering in the same boat with everyone else, and there's the general, "Nothing can be done any better," to protect you.

    Contrast that with Linux and outsourced support. First off, you've chosen something different, and hence inherently risky. Second, your outsourced support is probably less lawsuit-proof, and therefore maybe something might actually have to be done, rather than sighing in resignation.

    Also contrast with Linux and internal support. Now you're to your own resources, and directly and immediately responsible for anything that goes wrong.

    Note that NONE of this says a single thing about service levels, outages, or whatever. It's merely about adequate 'diffusion or responsibility' to keep the IT peoples' jobs protected. Microsoft provides a great 'responsibility diffusion sink,' one of the best at that.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  10. Office Apps != "The Corporate Enterprise" by brassrat77 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I think MS Word interoperability is perhaps the single most important barrier limiting companies from changing to Linux. Other Office products such as MS Excel and MS Powerpoint are also important.

    Desktop office applications are a noticable but small part of "the Enterprise" and NOT the main point of the original article.

    "Enterprise" usually refers to the core applications running in the corporate data center. Inventory, payroll, order processing. Applications where downtime costs $$/minute. Applications where "No application"=="No business".

    Linux is making gains in these areas. The adoption rate appears slow because

    1. It is slow. "Bet the company" decisions are always slow. Implementation is slow. Anyone remember how long it took Windows NT to break into corporate data centers? (Many would argue it still isn't ready)
    2. Companies don't always consider what is a "mission critical" application. Areas where Linux excels - web, mail, dns, and many other RFC-based services, for example - may not be viewed as "critical". At least until the boss wants to know why the corporate web site is down (nmida) or the email system is hosed (badtrans). Then we get something like the Giga Group recommendation to use anything but IIS.
    3. Companies see this as a competitive advantage and do not want to discuss it. The big NYC financial firms are a good example.
    4. Consulting firms need more linux experience. Many enterprise customers rely on the IT consulting arms of the big system integrators and consulting firms. If these outfits push something other than Linux, something other than Linux gets proposed. Do they get incentives from MS, Sun, IBM, HP, CPQ...? Maybe. Anyone pushing Linux like that? Not yet.
    5. CIOs don't always know what's running. I've come across repeated examples where the top managers swear "Linux isn't allowed" but there are stealth, pilot, and production deployments all over the shop. The file sharing and print system runs Samba on Linux and "just works" (and isn't considered "enterprise" until a key document is needed).

    Penetration of Linux could still be better, of course. We need better support from enterprise management and backup systems. We need more "mind share". This article helps.

    Desktops remain a problem. Out of sight, out of mind. Windows is in everyone's face every day.

  11. Still Does Not Answer My Question by 4of12 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is all fine and good - using Linux for servers is a great business decision. No licensing hassles, stays up like a champ and keeps on performing. End of story. Let's move on.

    But what about:

    Doing system administration for large LANs of Linux desktops?

    Over the years we've been running RISC workstations that are becoming increasingly expensive from a hardware standpoint relative to what can be got in the x86 world.

    We'd like to take advantage of the price performance advantage in hardware as well as the increasing maturity of Linux desktop end user applications (which are getting real close now). It seems like a lot more applications are available for Linux desktop than many of the traditional commercial Unices.

    The problem is that everyone I know that runs Linux runs their workstation or laptop as their own cowboy system administrator. They typically don't worry about integrating dozens or hundreds of these things together in such a way that a small support staff can manage them effectively.

    You know the kinds of systems.

    • Haphazard applications installed whereever they felt like
    • distro installed out of the box without enough applications
    • no patches applied for necessary security updates
    • strange hardware hanging off moldy interfaces,
    • never thinking about whether it might be nice to use something like NIS (but I know that's not good enough) or automount,
    • never providing regular user file backup,
    • deciding whether to put apps on a central server or each desktop, (pros and cons either way)
    • how to handle upgrades,
    • etc.

    So what I want to know is:

    Has anyone done this?
    How did it work? What should we look out for? What is the advantages and disadvantages? Good tools? Web sites?
    --
    "Provided by the management for your protection."
  12. Almost There by uslinux.net · · Score: 5, Interesting
    There are still a few things lacking in Linux distributions to make it fully "enterprise-ready" (I hate that term). For anyone who has truly spent time with other Unices, the following is obvious - Better Package Management! The ability to test out packages without "commiting" them so, if something breaks, you can immediately roll back to the prior state. Yes, I know you can uninstall and reinstall old packages, but it's NOT the same. Use HP-UX for a while and you'll understand - you can install, remove, commit, rollback, and test packages. In a production environment, it is critical that a newly installed patch or program doesn't break existing systems!


    As far as the kernel goes, I think Linux is there. I DON'T think Linux is necessarily ready to compete with NT or 2000 (though I give it 18 more months), since it is still lacking quite a few easy to use admin tools (think of the NT print manager or DHCP admin and you'll understand what I mean), but it is coming along.

    1. Re:Almost There by uslinux.net · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, the kernel is ready, mostly depending on which kernel you use. There are a number of people (myself included) that think the kernels aren't necessarily getting enough testing before release, but if you stay a stable revision or two behind, you're probably in good shape. 2.4.10 is stable, and so far 2.4.16 has been (though I'm sure there will be revisions to it). If you REALLY want something stable, use an -ac kernel - Alan has done an excellent job of making sure these ARE production ready.

    2. Re:Almost There by uslinux.net · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Easy to use != less secure

      Hard to use != more secure (perhaps just the opposite)


      Easy to use does not necessarily mean there are flaws in security, or that you only need to point and click. It DOES, however, mean that someone like me who knows DHCP or DNS doesn't need to look up the man page every time I need to add an option, or forget to add an important security setting that isn't in a default configuration file. It also means that, by restricting _what_ can be modified, there is far less chance of an error. Ever use a # sign as a comment in a DNS zone file? It's terrible that Bind will keep on going without an error messages, but resolution (particularly of MX records) will fail miserably


      Commented config files are easier to use than non-commented ones which require you to read a man page. Similarly, GUI tools are easier to use than config files (generally) - especially when they include good help functions. GUI admin tools SHOULD NOT replace an admin or be a substitute for stupidity, but they SHOULD be there to make our lives easier.

    3. Re:Almost There by demaria · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Administrators are busy people. Many IT departments are understaffed. Admins have better things to do than battle with the UI.