Windows XP Embedded

Embedded Geek writes: "Embedded Systems Programming has a piece about Microsoft organizing its employees to advocate their embedded products in online newsgroups (part of "a new culture at Microsoft" making "an effort to shed the company's reputation as an incommunicative giant.") This is coordinated with Microsoft's launch of Windows XP Embedded at their Embedded Developers' Conference (the countdown clock on their homepage says Wednesday but the launch party is Thursday)." News.com notes that this will be used in slot machines and ATMs. Insert obligatory free-money joke.

Comments

replaces embedded NT

[martin]

that already is running lots of ATM's out there. Do you ever see a BSOD on a cashpoint - I haven't?

Given the increase in complexity and code size its going to be interesting to see how it goes into devices.

Re:replaces embedded NT

[betel]

The classic one used to be on the Natwest cash machine at Charing Cross station (London, UK) - for weeks it displayed "a device driver cannot be loaded", but it still gave out cash with no problems (I can't remember if it actually came out of my account though).

Or the Natwest ones at Manchester Uni which were rebooted every Monday morning.

Or the Nationwide one at my local tube station, its spent most of the last fortnight moaning about something not being loaded and just generally not working.

Re:replaces embedded NT

[Arjen]

Do you ever see a BSOD on a cashpoint - I haven't?

I have

Embedded or built-in??

[gerardrj]

Microsoft seems re-defining the term "embeded". In my experience, embeded means a device who's OS is completly invisible to the end users.
To me a sales/Internet kiosk is not embedded, a PDA is not embedded. Embedded systems are not necessarily small, but the user is not required to know abut the system at all. For instance, a telephone switches, PVR, heart-rate monitor, automotive control.

These devices run with minimal system resoures for years on end without errors, reboots or upgrades. Frequently, the OS is coded in ROM. T
I used to use an OS called OS/9 from Microware on my 6809 based Tandy Color Computer. This OS ran in 64K (not Meg) or RAM and a single 360KB floppy drive. It's a real time, protected memory, secure operating system. OS/9 runs on quite a few low-wattage CPUs with significant processing power. While not free, it is a mature, reliable OS. And I mean OS, not kernel.

Probably everone in the United States interacts with and OS/9 embedded system on a regular basis, but they'll never know it.

MS on the other hand is providing an OS that will still run on a high power consumption system with tremendous resources that is built in to, or controls some other device or structure. In most of the applications this "embeded XP" would target, the OS would be the front end that interacts with the end user.

For some, it is too late...

[Dog and Pony]

In Sweden, some ATMs are already running NT.

And yes, they did *actually* get those "Low on Virtual Memory" errors (try to hit CTRL-ALT-DELETE to reboot on an ATM) and even a few bluescreens back then. I kid you not.

On the other hand after those child diseases, they are actully seeming to behave, and I know of noone that has actually lost (or gotten) money due to this.

The banks just needed two service packs, is my guess. :)

Well, so this product, after troubles unheard of in other systems, finally made it "stable" and "reliable".

I would not like to bet my money once again, just because I got the winning ticket once. Would you?

Dreamcast/Windows CE FUD

[Gizzmonic]

Seriously, though, Windows works a lot better for embedded than people think. Remember Dreamcast?

Hopefully for the last time: 95% of Dreamcast games do not run WinCE/DirectX. The operating system the Dreamcast uses resides on the disc, not the system ROM, and is up to the developer what OS and API to use.

Most Dreamcast games used "SegaKatana," which was Sega's own API/OS for games. It was lean, mean, and very stable.

Since the Dreamcast uses a Hitachi SH4 processor (same family as PocketPCs), Windows CE compatibility was implemented to encourage PC ports. Most WinCE games (Worms World Party, Hidden and Dangerous, etc) are notoriously buggy and ugly compared to Katana games. This is not completely WinCE's fault, as most of the developers using WinCE didn't give a rat's ass about making a good port.

Homebrew developers can also build games using gcc. Several emulators and even a version of Linux have come to Dreamcast using this toolkit.

Conclusion: Don't associate the Dreamcast with Windows CE.

Re:This is not the traditional embedded market

[MrBoring]

The self checkout market has many vendors. Having worked with one for Kroger, I can assure you that the back end at least, won't be Windows based. I'm reasonably certain the user GUI won't be either. The Kroger supermarket application runs on IBM's 4690 POS OS, which is based on a DOS derivative.

The 4690 OS much more light weight, designed for reliability and quality, and to a greater extent, upgradability. It's also been around for over 10 years. Stores have been known to run for two weeks on backup servers without even knowing it was switched over.

Also, different than Fat MS, I've been told to keep my code small so that the base Kroger supermarket app can fit within 1mb of ram. I'm not saying everything should be programmed this way, but the constraints put upon by *good* kiosks, cash registers, ATM's, and especially embedded devices are too heavy for something like XP.