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This is IT?
Dave (picked at random) and 8000 other slashdot readers wrote in to tell us that they too had been overcome by the relentless hype machine that is IT, Ginger, Segway, whatever. Read about IT in your favorite hype-dispensing media outlet, each of which thinks that it has an exclusive on the story of IT. Flash diagram of IT. Time. NY Times. Reuters. And don't forget to watch the advertisement, errr, "demonstration" of IT on Good Morning Consumers tomorrow. Update: 12/03 13:37 GMT by T : Segway's webmaster John Grohol points out the segway website as well.
"Nothing has happened at the level of the pedestrian to improve transportation since we invented the sneaker..." Really. Firstly, once on wheels, can the driver be considered a "pedestrian?" Secondly, what about bicycles, scooters, and the like. I'm sure there is some incredible technology going on there, but the arrogance seems much more powerful.
What a load of hype. So the Segway has no engine or brakes, but it has motors. So, it uses gyros and the motors to maintain stability/locomotion (doing away with the throttle), and it uses a wrist control to go left/right. The motors must use regenerative braking to stop and recharge the batteries. Looks like the Segway is an imaginative, very high-tech, very expensive.... electric scooter.
Hmm... If the Segway is allowed on sidewalks, there would be instant competition in the form of conventional electric scooters. They wouldn't be anywhere near as cool, but they also wouldn't cost $3000 or more. And, they'd run longer since they would not need to expend juice to feed the gyros and microcontrollers.
While Dean Kamen's Segway scooter is an interesting technological achievement, I have two concerns:
1. Because using Segway is so unlike anything out there in terms of personal transportation devices, the reseller better really teach people how to use it correctly. I have visions of clueless Segway riders crashing into other pedestrians and larger vehicles because they're not used to how to stop this scooter.
2. The US$3,000.00 cost for the personal version is way too expensive, IMHO. Kamen should seriously talk with the one company that produce a Segway-like scooter at a reasonable cost: Honda. Using its motorcycle and electric vehicle expertise, Honda could build such a scooter for US$1,800.00 or less per scooter.
In the U.K. years and years ago a chap called Clive Sinclair brought out a three wheeled electric car called the C5. The performance was similar to a bike when the electric motor was engaged but you often had to physically pedal it up steep inclines. It wasn`t awful but simply didn`t catch the public`s imagination. Better than walking, but not as good as a bike, and certainly not a replacement for a car.
Unless this invention turns out to be better than some existing form of transport it will probably fail. Generally the public give things like this short shrift.
I'm sorry, people won't use this as a mainstream form of transportation. The smallest form of transportation that people will use is a scooter (Vespa size.... like a small motorcycle). These are widepsread in Europe (ever been to Rome?). Something the size of IT/Ginger is just too small (thats why the motorized Razors haven't caught on). Scooters are small enough to fit a dozen or three on normal city streets (where only 3-4 cars would go) yet large enough to still hold up to 2 riders and a bag or two of groceries while moving at upt to 45 mph. And the greatest part? They use *existing* infrastructure. Don't get me wrong, gyroscopes and no pollution rock in my book, but the fact of the matter is that most people need more functionality out of their vehicles than a motorized skateboard.
I was wondering about the learning curve, like I'm trying to keep my balance, and Segway is trying to keep my balance and we get into a violent feedback loop. Then I read Grove was rolling slowly along when Doerr ambled over and pushed him in the chest. When the Segway kept him from losing his balance, Grove emitted a distinctly un-Grove-like giggle.
Now I'm wondering if we can apply the technology to bicycles, windsurfers, skates, etc. Now that would be awesome: In-line skates that act like Segway.
Amongst the great quotes:
It's pretty difficult to ride a bike or a scooter whilest intoxicated. Driving a car is illegal and stupid. So how about riding a Segway drunk? It has balancing technology that allows it to not tip over. They need to do some testing. What I suggest is take someone to a local bar, get them wasted, and see what happens. I would gladly volunteer :)
I do think that this is a great invention and I think it has a lot of potential to take off in cities like Tokyo and such....
Like many have stated already, this seems to be for those who don't want the cost/responsibility/pollutoin of a car but don't want to actually expend enough energy to use a bicycle or walk.
However, a low-power, effective gyro assembly coupled with a recumbent bicycle would definately be something I would look into, at least for use in the warmer months. When you factor in that the price of a good recumbent is about $1200 USD, plus maybe $300 more for the accessories you want/need (safety, people!), you would still have $1500 left to add in a gyro assembly and match the price of the whoseewhatzit.
I've been on a few recumbants, and I can tell you, if you are reasonably healthy they can move you pretty damn quick. The biggest issue I and most other people have is getting used to the new "balancing vectors" so to speak that recumbents require. Plus, you can actually get a cargo hitch for those camping trips or cross-country adventures, which also addresses those concerns about not being able to bring groceries home on a scooter.
Also, can't wait until hooks an Xbox up to one of these, and makes a twirling, tightrope-walking Beowolf cluster of these, and yada yada yada...
Green-voting, republican-registered, socialist-libertarian.
Here's where I'm lost:
:)
They say GINGER has *no powertrain* and only uses 5 cents of electricity all day long. Now, I dunno about you, but if that's true, less moving/powered parts = less maintainence and I sure as hell spend more than 5 cents fueling my car if I drive all day long..
Say what you will, but if he can produce the goods as promised (when's the last time anyone has done that?) I'd be very interested in grabbing one. I wanna see how it stands up to curb jumping and the like..
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
One thing I see people bitching about here is the fact that it will be impossible to lug about when you're not on them. But I think the whole point of this thing is the fact that you wouldn't get off of it. You're perfectly balanced all the time on what is effectively a zero-footprint transporation device. You wouldn't get off of it while standing in line, or while riding the morning train. In fact, since it does the equivalent of all the small body motions you do naturally to stay upright, you'd probably be less tired on one of these than you would be standing without it. The only problem I can see is stairs... I don't know about other places but here in California EVERYTHING is handicapped accessible, so I don't think that will be that much of an issue. This is brilliant technology, and I can't wait until the price point meets my budget.
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The cynicism on this board sickens me. I think people are trying to exhibit their "coolness" by putting down this device before they even see a demo. But think about it and try to understand the vision.
,etc - ie, most of america - this thing will be intriguing. Why isn't granny rollerblading around the mall, instaed of using those motorized carts? Think about it. And the population is only gettin OLDER.
1. PEOPLE ARE LAZY. PERIOD. That's why people won't bike the 3 miles to the train station from home or work. The fact that you don't have to pedal this thing will make more difference then most of you realize. Obvously, you health nuts who are complaining about how people SHOULD walk or pedal 3 miles aren't in touch with most of humanity and its tendency to take the path of least effort.
I saw a funny scene where someone at the local shopping center went into a grocery store, came out, and then moved their car about 500 feet and reparked before going into the gym (the GYM, for crying out loud). That behavior tells me that laziness really reigns supreme and that's why this device has a future.
2. So if I don't want to pedal the 3 miles between the train station and home or work, why not use a motorized bike? IT is safer than a motorized bike or scooter. Obviously, the gyros, sensors, and software are doing SOMETHING to keep you from falling over. Can't say the same for a bike. My mom , in her 60's, would probably be comfortable riding one of these things, but she sure won't touch a motorized bike.
3. Also, this thing moves at manageable speeds and seems more agile than what you'd find at lower, comparable speeds on a bike.
For those of you who are 28, fit, and in good shape - sure, bike, rollerblade, etc . For those who are lead much more sedentary lifestyles, are afraid of falling
I think this thing as real potential. Is it a done deal? No. Does this thing provide a solution to a problem that is growing bigger and bigger as cities continue to expand and surburbia means that I no longer can walk to the "corner" video store? I'm certainly going to give this thing a chance.
Granted, when we walk we're falling forward in a controlled fashion, as Kamen states in the Time article, but we then lift ourselves back up and fall again to sustain the walk.
The batteries are for balancing -- five cents of electricity per day. Where does this beast get the energy to move a few hundred pounds at speeds up to 12 MPH and sustain it "all day"?
Can the technology scale? Why not build a roofed two-wheel rickshaw for two riders? Imagine commuting at 30 MPH through a city on a few small rechargable batteries. Make it bigger, give it a fluid reservoir for load balancing, and have a two-wheeled four seated family sedan that cruises the highways safely for pennies per lengthy trip.
I dunno, I will wait until the real world product is in the hands of some real world reviewers before I believe it to be the best thing since sliced bread. Right now I come down on the skeptical side of opinion.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
Lets take a look at the the two real complaints -cost and weight- for a moment. Both will obviously come down drastically over the years.
Three things- electronics, gyroscopes, and the batteries make the Segway expensive. The electronics will be a tenth the price within a month of even a single Segway sisterboard making it to Taipie, no matter how poorly the Segway's sales might do. Barring any hereforeto unforeseen aviation boom, I imagine that the gyroscopes will probably only drop in price in proportion with the volume of Segways produced. The batteries should far slightly better (but not as good as the electronics), steadily, albeit slowly, dropping in price over time, a trend that will also take place whether or not Segway is successful.
As I see it, only one thing really adds significant weight to Segway, and that is the batteries. They mention both NiCd and NiMH batteries can be used. IANABE (battery expert?), but I would bet that they are using those older battery technologies because of their power-to-weight ratios, or perhaps even their power-to-volume ratios. Many other power solutions are available, each with drawbacks. Batteries where probably chosen for efficiency, simplicity, and safety concerns. Better battery tech, or fuel cells, or Stirling engines, or even gasoline engines (probably requiring some lightweight, high-velocity flywheels for energy storage) could potentially help reduce the current weight of the Segway. Heck, if these things do become popular in cities, run them right off of overhead wires, like bumper cars! Or maybe even through substreet power lines via inductance. No need for much of a battery at all then.
When Thales was asked what was difficult, he said, "To know one's self." And what was easy, "To advise another."
I don't know what's more depressing: that you actually thought you were being insightful by posting this, or that our ever-vigilent moderators voted you up for it.
At the risk of responding to your knee-jerk, brainless dribblings with an actual answer instead of the back-handed slap upside the face that they so richly deserve, allow me to call your attention to:
- the elderly
- the handicapped
- people too young for a driver's license
- people who live in communities with noise-abatement laws
...and that's just off the top of my head, and not even speculating on possible uses in industrial applications. The question isn't whether people can drive a car or a scooter, although there are plenty who cannot for reasons having nothing to do with being "retards". The question is whether there are applications for which the Segway might be more appropriate than a car or a scooter.The problem with the Segway isn't that it lacks a market. The problem is that it's at least $2300 too expensive for most of them, and probably about twice as heavy as it should be.
How is IT as safe as a car? You're totally unprotected on an IT, just like on a scooter or a bike.
With a top speed of under 10mph, comparing a Segway's safety to a car is, well, about as stupid as the rest of your post. I suspect that its safety is about comparable to a bicycle, but the Segway has the advantage of not putting the rider in a hunched-over position -- jumping clear of an accident will be much easier.
In passing, let me just say that I am astounded and overwhelmed by your level of compassion and understanding for your fellow human beings. Here's hoping that you contract a degenerative neural disease, so you can taste some of the same.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
Pure physics states that a bumblebee can't fly.
Pure physics states no such thing. Individual scientists might have made such statements, but they would have been unwise, as a bumblebee inarguably flies, and to state that it is physically impossible for them to do so would be ludicrous and incorrect. A scientist, or anyone else, might argue that the aerodynamics of bumblebee flight are a mystery, and they would not be an ass for stating that opinion.
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Yes, the hype sucked. No, it's not Cochrane's warp drive.
But it is a new mode of transportation. It is a motorized, stand-on, auto-balancing, fly-by-wire, two-wheeled unicycle.
I use "two-wheeled unicycle", because the unicycle is the only single-axle vehicle that is familiar to everyone. (Or think of a non-bouncing pogo stick with wheels if you prefer.)
The single axle is the most significant distinguishing feature of this invention.
This is a very cool ride because it's a motorized unicycle that anyone can walk up to, stand on, and go zipping around. If it works well, that's gotta feel really amazing.
This is a very cool hack because you can't build a single axle vehicle that everyone can use without sensors, computing power, and software to do the balancing. $3,000 for this is pretty fscking cool. $200 in 7 years will be really significant.
This is also a novel UI. This is the first throttle/brake on a motorized vehicle that I've heard of that is coupled to corresponding body motion rather than being hand or foot actuated. One UI thing I question is that it sounds like you twist your wrist to turn. Since you lean forward or backward to throttle or brake, why don't you turn your body to turn (pivoting your torso and the handlebars with respect to the platform)?
On a more practical note, a single-axle vehicle can have advantages in size and maneuverability, and probably efficiency, over two-axle vehicles. Standing humans, after all, are single-axle and two-wheeled (horses are two-axle and four-wheeled), so this is the vehicle configuration that most closely matches our bodies.
It hasn't been practical before, because it requires cheap and reliable "AB" (Artificial Balance :-), which Kamen's team seems to have built. Once the required AB software and hardware are cheap and small (fist-sized and $5), this will be the most cost-effective single person vehicle.
It's not nearly as significant as the automobile or the bicycle/moped/motorcycle, but mankind's first practical single-axle vehicle is sure not a fscking scooter!
=LavaTrollUm... it sounds like the decoder glitched
Yeah, I live across the Long Island Sound from his island, I can see it out my window. He secceeded from the United States over building a wind turbine as I recall. The state of New York had a law against, and he said screw it and built it anyway. So he's got this island with a big house, a big wind turbine thing on top of it, a duck (one of those cars that drives on water as well as land), and a few other oddities. I honestly don't know that I've ever seen anyone actually ON the island, but it's pretty cool nonetheless.
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This invention isn't going to change the world overnight. If it changes the world at all it will take a couple of years.
Change is scary stuff That's why nobody like this idea. It COULD change the lives of everyone, everyday. The internet still doesn't affect everyone's daily lives (just ours) but transportation is something everyone needs and uses and we all have to share the same roads.
Forget hype. I have no problem with deserved hype. see apple commercial with hammer.
I can go 15 miles or more on my bike, try that on this.
A can zip between cars on a bike.
this thing is more dangerous in a collision. If I get hit by a car on my bike, I go on top of the car, you get hit on this and you'll go under the car.
My bike is pratical on the street, this is not(too wide) that means you'll be on the sidewalk, with pedestrians, that means a) you'll be travelling the same speed as the walker, b)bigger foor print.c)laibility when you injure some one by running over their foot.
2 inch step? haha, geet the thing to go over a standard curb, or it immediatly become more of a hassle for the user.
I can not stress this enough, crowds. it is too big for crowds.
If he made it skate board shaped, it would be far more practical.
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seems great for new yorkers commuting from upper west/east side down to wall st...manhattan is what, 7 or 8 miles long? you could do the r/t on one charge, or charge it up at work...cities will probably offer incentives so people will buy them, kind of like the transitcheck program in nyc...remember, the subway is like $50/month with metrocard, right? that's $600/year...so let's say the city offers you a $600 rebate, then you pay $2400 and recoup the cost in 4 years (plus you can use it to escape muggers in central park -- bonus!)...a 4 year loan on $2400 is around $50/month, which is what you would have paid for the subway anyway...hopefully it has a 5 year warranty!!
don't know if I'd try it in wintertime, though, your face might freeze off at 12.5 mph -- unless you wore ski goggles or something...but in summertime it would be great with the breeze you make as you cut up park ave at 12.5mph...
one question: how do you tell which is yours in the parking lot? not much room for personalization...maybe there's a business here...be the first to design custom segway wheelcovers, yes!!!
and what about a headlight for those late night starbucks runs??
Kamen is a famous Microsfot hater: as per this article on cnn, so it's not coicidence that this is in the article. He uses Intel chips in some of his inventions because they are cheaper, but laments that they are so poorly designed and wasteful.
The two limiting issues I see with this as a product are battery life/recharge time and how it handles curbs. Every day I drive 30 minutes, pay to park, board a ferry boat, ride the ferry for an hour, then walk 15 minutes to work from the boat. Could I use a Segway? If it made it easier to get around in Downtown Seattle, then yes, I could. The major difference between walking and riding is the way you deal with curbs. I have a very good friend who is in an electric wheelchair. He certainly gets around, but he has to travel a little further to find the places where there are curb cuts. I'm imagining that if I'm riding a Segway on the sidewalk (if I'm in the street I'd probably be run over), then I'm having to actively look for curb cuts and/or lift the Segwey over curbs. I'm really skeptical about how well that will work. Also, how long will it take to recharge? If it takes six hours (like some reports say), then that's probably too long to be useful in some cases. Also, if I run out of juice somewhere, what do I do? drag it? I guess I'm on the fence as to what I think of it. It seems like pretty cool technology that might fit into people's lives, but I'm not totally sure until I actually get a chance to use one and find out how well it handles curbs, stairs, bumps, etc and the power issue.
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