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3G Network Coming to America
Not2Bryt64 writes: "Reuters has a story about Cingular building a nationwide 3G network. According to Cingular it 'will deliver mobile users data at rates of up to 470,000 bits a second -- fast enough to watch video clips over phones.'" I just hope it doesn't mean that we have to see more annoying Cingular commercials. But I want my video cell phone!
my true love bought for me:
five video cell-phones
four sega dreamcasts
three thinkgeek shirts
two copys of The Hobbit*
and 2.4.15 on a CD
*One copy to read, another to keep under the mousepad for luck.
lysergically yours
As long as wireless providers insist on keeping the idea of a "mobile phone" then this is useless.
Watching movies on my phone is dumb -- I'd rather watch them on my home theater or in a real movie theater.
Reading/writing email on my phone is dumb -- I'd rather do that on something with a _real_ keyboard, thanks.
If we can make wireless devices that actually have a _use_ (think wireless Newton), then maybe we're getting somewhere.
If I can read my email comfortably and actually _write_ a response (pressing 4433555555666 just to write "hello" is unacceptable!!) then I might have a use for it.
Of course, none of this matters since 3G doesn't work anyway.
Most of these wireless solutions bandy about large bandwidth numbers, but never give break downs of actual usage scenarios. I imagine that this is the bandwidth in a cell or for optimal loading scenarios. If so, then I can see only getting old modem speeds in the average cell in a metropolitian area.
Shared bandwidth maybe effecient for the carrier, but it can really bite for the user.
Instead of just talking on their cell phones while driving, they can watch video on their cell phones while driving. Oh joy. Oh rapture. Oh ecstasy.
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...of the primary 3G usage example being "watching video over your phone."
NO ONE is going to watch video over a phone for long periods of time, even if the battery could handle it.
However, how would you telecommuters like to be able to work from ANYWHERE in the world without sacrificing your high-speed, always-on connection to the internet?
IT is a cool invention, but 3G really could change the world.
"And like that
I dunno about the states, but here in the UK 3g mobile networks have basically hurt the phone companies really bad financially. The government put up the 3g licenses for auction and the top 4 mobile companies paid something like a combined 60billion ukp for them. And that doesnt include actually building the network.
Plus, some pundits have already slated it as doomed as the current networks are already vastly popular with relatively cheap phones. It would have to take a big incentive for most people to get rid of their cheap gsm phones and move to 3g ones. Because chances are, they are gonna be expensive so the phone companies can actually try to break even. Its gonna take em a long time though...
However, considering that the states isnt all gsm already, i hope your 3g network gets sorted properly.
Any hope the quality of a voice call will go back to where it was in 1980 (in North America, anyway)? I am constantaly amazed at (a) just how bad the voice quality of digital cellular is [yes, dropouts count as "poor quality"] (b) how willing people are to pay for such bad quality.
sPh
Sounds like a fantastic start, but I want to know more. In my opinion, speed is only one of the major variables in the wireless networking equation. It balances against cost, coverage, and openness. A high speed, reasonable cost, general purpose network with nationwide coverage would be a dream come true. A high speed, high cost, proprietary network that only works in major cities doesn't interest me much.
As an aside, though, am I the only one who wonders about the weird fixation cellular network planners seem to have with video clips? Honestly, if you asked me the top 25 things I'd want to do with a high-bandwidth portable personal communications device it wouldn't even occur to me to put "watch video clips" on my list. Am I the one who's out of touch here, or are they?
It is only GSM V.3, being based on TDMA.
It is done via channel bundeling and new protocoll for airinterface.
3G is WCDMA (here in Europe) or some other stuff (ask Qualcomm).
cees
Now, think about a small video camera in your phone. 3G is the bandwidth to speak to eachother Face to Face (well sort of) over a cell phone. Add a little cradle for the thing (so you can sit and look at it) and you can put a face on the other end of the line. IMHO, that would be a worth while use of video on a phone.
But if that wasn't good enough, imagine calling 911, getting patched to an Paramedic with a video phone, and being able to pass video data to mdical techs on their way to the scene (they may even be able to help provide instructions for emergency care). Useful stuff if you ask me.
If I can't see it in Lynx I'm not interested.
Watching movies on my phone is dumb -- I'd rather watch them on my home theater or in a real movie theater.
/ in dex.html
Reading/writing email on my phone is dumb -- I'd rather do that on something with a _real_ keyboard, thanks.
Relax, their will be PC/PCI cards that use 3G technology to provide you with internet access just like your ethernet and WiFi cards today.
If we can make wireless devices that actually have a _use_ (think wireless Newton), then maybe we're getting somewhere.
The SprintPCS Visor phone springboard module actually has built in support for 3G, so that when sprint turns on their 3G support (now in testing), the visor phone will be ready for it. (Although it only supports the lower ISDN-like speeds of 3G, which is what Sprint PCS will roll out first.)
In fact, I daresay Sprint PCS is closer to rolling out 3G than Cingular, since they already have an all digital CDMA network laid out across the nation, and have been testing 3G for quite some time.
http://www.sprintpcs.com/aboutsprintpcs/Cdma_3g
"And like that
It's a little bit of a leap for some geeks to move from the productivity-centered focus of desktop computing and its derivations to the idea of communications-oriented socializing technologies, but for most people the latter is usually more exciting.
From what I've read so far, Cingular is one of the cellular service providers who will be offering the Handspring Treo. An integrated pda, cell phone, messaging system, and all around wireless device plus more bandwidth can't possibly be a bad thing. Hope it works out.
- Good voice clarity - equivalent to wired when in better-than-marginal conditions.
- Good enough battery life to talk for at least 3 or so hours on a charge. LiIon batteries for no memory and good power density.
- Antennas that are either recessed or integrated to the body. Nokias do this well in current models. No protruding breakable dongles like the StarTAC.
- A phone that fits in my pocket.
- The ability to download phone numbers from my PC. But that's all the PIM functionality I want.
And from the phone company, I want the following:
- Coverage almost anywhere. Digital, too. No more AMPS service anywhere.
- No roaming. At all. And no long distance if the carrier has a national footprint.
- Either free incoming or "caller pays" incoming, the way real telcos do it.
- Finally, and most importantly - I want a service that just gives me minutes, at a comparable cost to wired minutes. I should pay less than $0.10 per minute for any kind of outbound call, regardless of location or destination. One of the things that sucks the most about US mobile phone companies (I can't speak to what they do elsewhere) is the way they differentiate between peak and off-peak, and the high cost of minutes once you use the monthly allotment. I don't pay extra on my wired phone - I shouldn't have to on a mobile.
Slightly better data support would be nice (up to, say, 56k support), but not essential. If I need wireless data badly enough, I can buy it separately. And if I want broadband, I probably will do better having it wired (to my home) than in my pocket on the road.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Sprint PCS is expected to have 3G in June.
on a side note. For those of you compaining about the video on phone. It seemed to me that they weren't pushing video on phone, but that they were trying to give people an idea of how fast the throughput is. Not everyone understands what a KB is.
Misfit
This sounds to me like a simple case of media overload! I mean, how much information do we really need at once? And where's the application for this?
"sarcastic voice"
oooo, ooooo look streaming video
"/sarcastic voice"
Really, so what? What can the average person do with this except maybe the I'm-late-for-a-bored-meeting (board purposely spelt incorrect). or a new twist to phone sex and 1-900 numbers.... After that, what would the average person want with this..... Sorry CMDTACO... You are not the average person so you're allowed to want this....
I have no need for this, nor would I wish to pay for such a device
Any ideas how much extra this would cost?
Heck, I can't even reason with paying for wireless internet access anymore. It was a great novelty at first, and maybe checking my stocks or e-mail at the beach...
But really, do we all need to be THAT connected?
www.slightlycrewed.com - Because aren't we all?
The infrastructure required for the 3G is massive, complex and expensive. In my opinion, it may well be doomed.
Consider this - local wireless is becoming increasingly popular and powerful. How long will it be before your handheld, Palm, or whatever, instantly connects to your office network via wireless so that you can have a broadband connetion to the Internet via that? Project a bit further - how long is it going to be before your handheld instantly becomes a guest on other companies' networks when you are visiting them, so you get a broadband internet connection through that? How long will it be before hotels also have this facility? Universities? Schools?
The technolgy to do this is very nearly here, today. It will be relatively cheap to implement. So, the telcos are going to be loosing out on all that lovely revenue from connections to the internet made in or near company offices, hotels, schools, universities, etc. What proporition of their mobile phone revenue has that got to be? Sixty per cent? More?
Remember Iridium? Once upon a time it sounded like it couldn't loose, didn't it?
The telcos are years behind with 3G. My advice - don't invest in it.
This press release is just a way of hyping Cingular and Nokia.
The FCC has not authorized ANY frequency band for 3G yet. Plans to re-allocate military spectra fell through.
3G deployment is years in the future in the US because no standard can be set till the Government gives up some useable range of frequencies.
So this is just GSM with the added benefit of a hyped up press release. GSM can be upgraded to EDGE (3G) in the future (though it will require more towers and different equipment on them), but it ain't happening now (we're talking about now, aren't we?)
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Does anyone know what kind of sillicon they're planning on throwing into their phones? I read a while (6 months or so) back about some ericson engineers who complained that they could get the throughput (the bandwidth) happening, but they kept melting the phone chassis because the processor was too hot.
You'd need some fairly muscular processing to do video replay, etc... and small phones don't really ventilate well, especially inside my pocket.
On the other hand they could bill it as a combination tool. "It's a cell phone, a portable video-on-demand device, and a hand warmer
Howard Dean for president
I had the chance to use the other US 3G provider, VoiceStream, a few weeks ago for a few days. While the connection was a decent speed (fluctuated from 3kBps up to ~12), what killed my hope for it was the latency. Doing anything directly interactive, namely telnet/rlogin/ssh, was highly painful. I can't in good concience solely blame 3G because voicesteams' equipment could just be shite, but I don't think it would be bad enough to give me ~2 second latencies.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
The overhead for operating a mobile network here is much higher because you need a lot more towers to reach the same number of people. That extra cost prohibits attractive pricing of most of the handheld mobile devices.
Even Slashdot wants to hide some things
Project a bit further - how long is it going to be before your handheld instantly becomes a guest on other companies' networks when you are visiting them, so you get a broadband internet connection through that?
As soon as they install an internet-connected 802.11b and you install something like Air Snort on your handheld.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
The one thing that 3G is going to do for me is FINALLY provide a decent wireless service for my PDA that i can pay for along with my cell phone.
Heh, I'm sure with the wonderful providers that exist in the United States, you will probably have the luxary of paying for the added services on a "per-byte" basis...
Doh!
This is GPRS/EDGE-network, delivered by Nokia, and only 3G in an american sense. Cingular is moving from old TDMA system to GSM-based technology simply because they want to enable GPRS/EDGE (packet data) services. In theory, this could be done with TDMA as well, but there is no hardware available from any vendors.
As for the bit rates, 470kbps is reachable...in a test lab. In GPRS, depending on the encoding (CS-1 to CS-4) you get 10 to 20kbps per timeslot. Note, that this is the rate on PHYSICAL layer. You lose a slice for all the overhead caused by the protocol stack, of course.
One TRX (tranmitter/receiver) means 8 timeslots on a 200 kHz band. The newest GPRS phones are "4+1"-devices, using 4 timeslots for downlink, 1 for uplink, with CS-2 encoding, yielding about 40 kbps bitrate - in optimal conditions. This means that there are no other users and you get those timeslots completely for your own use.
EDGE brings in a new modulation (8-PSK instead of GMSK), in which the bitrate is tripled (symbol rate/baud rate stays the same).
So, in optimal conditions, with CS-4 encoding and EDGE, you get about 80 kbps. This means that for 470kbps you need 6 timeslots. Right. That means almost one whole TRX for a single user.
Either Cingular invests a LOT of money (well, since they are switching their entire infrastructure to a new system, they are doing that already), and brings in one TRX/user, those rates are unreachable in any real world environment.
Of course, EDGE is not ready yet, and in GPRS only CS-1 and CS-2 encodings are implemented anywhere (CS-3 and CS-4 coming in on H1 of 2002), so the maximum bitrate at the moment is about 40kbps.