QuickTime To Move To MPEG-4

spav writes: "Looks like Apple will be embracing MPEG-4 for its new versions of QuickTime according to C|Net News.com. That could mean quicktime for Linux, but would we need it?" This sounds like a start toward OS-neutral video, but until companies decide not to add proprietary layers making otherwise widely-available formats unavailable, it won't be the end. The first half of this article dwells on QuickTime's 10th birthday, but then gives slightly more detail on the MPEG4 transition.

Comments

MPEG 4 is already based on Quicktime format

[abiogenesis]

MPEG-4 standard, as defined by the ISO, is already based on Quicktime format. Don't be fooled just because Microsoft and DivX has created their own proprietary formats before the standards has been put down.

http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/quicktime/qt de vdocs/QTFF/qtff.html

Re:MPEG 4 is already based on Quicktime format

[BlowChunx]

The MPEG4 file format is based on the QuickTime file format. The codec is not derived from Apple technology, otherwise I would be able to watch MPEG4 videos already on my mac....

Quicktime

[eXtro]

Contrary to Timothy's rant, Quicktime itself is a published file format. The most commonly used CODEC used with Quicktime, Sorensen, isn't open or published however. There's ample published information on reading the Quicktime file format, there's even a couple of Open Source projects that can parse it. If the data the file format contains is Sorensen compressed then your S.O.L. for displaying it.

If MPEG4 is the CODEC then the data will be displayable assuming there are MPEG4 decoders, which I think there are.

Quicktime has been linked with MPEG 4 since 1998

[Anonymous Coward]

MPEG-4 is actually based on work done in QuickTime back in 1998. Here is a link to a story from 1998: http://www.internetwk.com/news/news0211-15.htm (and another from Wired) :
http://www.wired.com/news/news/business/story/10 25 5.html

Here is the Apple press release: http://www.apple.com/pr/library/1998/feb/11iso.htm l

I'm sure there is some ranting to be done about Apple here, but let's not get to reactionary about this.

No, it was __MPEG moving to__ QuickTime

[Marioroi]

QuickTime was choosen as a basis for MPEG-4.

Completely ignorant article, as usual

[lordpixel]

As pointed out ad nauseum by people on the last story, QUICKTIME IS A CONTAINER FORMAT. It WRAPS different streams of audio and video.

The supported audio formats include WAV, AIFF, AU, mp3 and half a dozen others.

The video standards used have included CinePack, 3 different versions of Sorenson and even Intel's Indeo video (used for years in Microsoft AVIs).

The container format is supported on Linux Open Quicktime

The problem is Sorenson is exclusively licensed to Apple and they do not release it for Unix/Linux.

The other layer of ignorance is that MPEG-4 is also a container method for compressed audio and video streams. In fact its very similar to Quicktime (the packaging standard) indeed because it is actually _based on_ Quicktime!

That's not going to help Linux if they keep using Sorenson. It might help Mac users watch 3ivx, Divx and whatever other encoding formats are sometimes refered to as MPEG-4. You're not going to find this out from the CNET article though. Actually, since Quicktime is a container format, it supports pluggable codecs, so I watch MPEG4/{X}ivx video in Quicktime already - but it sure would be nice if Apple shipped those codecs out of the box.

The article is BS on many other points in any case - I would estimate over 50% of the streaming video I see out there is available in Quicktime format (though often alongside one of the other two). I mean, its very much the right tool for the right job at present... have you ever seen a good looking movie trailer in Real Video? I've seen a couple of OK ones, but the filesizes were similar to better looking Quicktime packaged (ie, Sorenson encoded) trailers. On the other hand I might use Real where image quality is less important. Oh, and of course, Quicktime includes mp3 support - its not competing with it!

So what does all this mean? Obviously Apple adopting MPEG4 could mean one of two things:

• Since the MPEG 4 packaging standard is based on QuickTime, perhaps they are just updating it so the next Quicktime is 100% compatible with the official standard. This would certainly help the Open Quicktime people, as they can then just write to the MPEG-4 standard
• It may mean Apple are going to ship the codecs commonly used with MPEG-4 (ie, the {X}ivx variants, FivX, 3ivx etc). That would help Linux because it would mean more Quicktime movies would exist compressed in formats which are available on Linux.

If Apple stick with pushing Sorenson as the primary codex (and hey, it is *really* nice looking) and don't ship any of the typical MPEG4 codecs, well that's not much news. If they ship {X}ivx alongside Sorenson, that's great because it allows content producers to choose, and Linux users can ask them to choose the more widely available {X}ivx compressors.

If I was more naive I'd say I can't believe CNET were presenting the "move" to MPEG4 as a retreat for Quicktime. MPEG 4 is the standardization of Quicktime and a vindication of its owenership of the professional market! Are they stupid or deliberately spinning it - you decide!

So all in all the CNET article is biased, tells you very little about what's actually been announced (is it new codecs? is it more standards compliance?) and tries to spin a victory as a defeat. Oh yeah, and Timothy's comments show he has no clue in this area either...

Re:Completely ignorant article, as usual

[Aapje]

Sorenson is working on a Mpeg-4 codec. I've seen beta versions floating around. I believe that this announcement means one of two things:

1. Sorenson Mpeg-4 will be bundled with Quicktime, which is to be expected. Apple will probably make a big deal of it. This won't help Linux one bit as the codec will still be proprietary.
2. Apple will adapt Quicktime so that it will easily work with codecs that follow one of the ISO MPEG-4 profile codec definitions. This is also to be expected. Mpeg-4 will allow you to use the same codec with any video-architecture that supports Mpeg-4 (Quicktime, WMP, Real, etc).
Take your pick.

Here's a link: 9 januari, behold the beta of Sorenson Mpeg-4

PS. Could someone mod down lordpixel, his sensible post doesn't fit it with the other posts: "F*ck Apple, why can't I play Quicktime trailers? It's a conspiracy."
PS2. 90% of the posts can be answered with this: "complain with Sorenson to port the codec to Linux".
PS3. This topic is about Quicktime. Not Linux.

Re:Completely ignorant article, as usual

[lordpixel]

>PS2. 90% of the posts can be answered with this: >"complain with Sorenson to port the codec to Linux".

Unfortunately I think Apple require Sorenson to exclusively license their products to only Apple, at least as far as the decoders go. Otherwise I guess we might see Sorenson support in Windows Media Player or Real.

I know this was true for earlier Sorenson, can't see it having changed for 3.

So Apple are not off the hook...

OS-neutral? Hmmm...

[PRobinson]

I was at BSDCon Europe last month where Jordan Hubbard (now working at Apple) gave a presentation on all that was brilliant about Mac OS X for the BSD Unix crowd. At the end, in the Q&As, somebody did ask about the porting of Quicktime to other OS.

From the answer, which was pretty neutral and he didn't seem to want to rock the boat - Jordan rated the chances of it being ported as smaller than slim. Because of all the low-lovel codec code that needs to be ported and optimised for the OS, porting QT is apparently an Evil Job, and they wouldn't have ported to Windows if it wasn't for the fact Windows had such a huge market share.

In short, don't hold your breath. If it does start making it's way out as a port, expect it for the BSD Unixes first, as they are likely to be the easiest to port to from OS X/Darwin (i.e. nothing more than a recompile on another machine)

rid yourself of the "Why upgrade?" � slightly OT

[slurry47]

QuickTime asks you to upgrade on the first application start of each day it's used.

BEFORE starting QuickTime change your date to a MUCH higher year e.g. 2020.

Then start QuickTime.

When asked to "Why upgrade?" click "Later." NOTE: giggle to your self at this point.

QuickTime won't ask you to upgrade again til the first time you use it in 2020.

Oh yeah ... change your date back at this point.

Quicktime

[Anonymous Coward]

Obviously timothy doesn't understand what Quicktime is. It is an encapsulation format for time-based media (not necessarily compressed video) and API to manipulate it. And NOT a compression algorithm.

This newsitem is meerly saying that there's a MPEG-4 codec for Quicktime under development. Is anyone surprised at all? If Apple decides to prefer MPEG-4 over Sorensen2. Then that will be newsworthy. But that isn't what they are saying.

Tom

Re:Quicktime Pro

[Anonymous Coward]

Quicktime Pro "activates" is what you get when you put a SN into Quicktime. Inserting the SN grants you increased functionality - Full Screen Playback, Splicing Movies, Converting Movie Formats as well as numerious other things that i dont know about (visit www.apple.com/quicktime/ for further info. as for MPEG-4 multiplatform i suggest you examin 3ivx - from what i udnerstand the 3ivx group is part of mpeg and their codex is avaliable on windows (all), macOS(pre and post 10), Unix/Linux (for both xAnim and OpenQuicktime), BEOS and amegia (for MooVid & SoftCinima) for more information check www.3ivx.com.

So you see, MPEG-4 is not new, nor is "multiplatform" mpeg-4... but its great to see it getting the recognition it deserves

Re:"Would we need it?"? Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

We already had this discussion about Sorenson about a year ago, in short
1. Sorenson is only the codec and Sorenson said they were ready to port it for use with Linux (means any Quicktime-Parser) but Apple blocked
2. Sorenson is only the codec and Apple probably can do what they want with it so when they would release Quicktime for Linux we all could watch the next Star Wars Trailer

jm2c

Re:Of course!

[Graff]

Quicktime is not just a player, it's a very useful file format that holds tons of extras, such as alternate soundtracks, multimedia compositing, text tracts, midi tracks, meta data to direct the combining of layers, etc. It is simply amazing what you can do inside a Quicktime file, as opposed to a simple video file.

Not to mention that the Quicktime Streaming Server is open source and free, in all senses of the word.

Yes and No

[BigJimSlade]

I wouldn't expect to see Quicktime for Linux anytime soon.

However, an interesting fact: according to last month's Linux Format (a really good UK Linux mag, IMO) Apple actually changed their license so that CodeWeavers could legitimatly use the Windows Quicktime 5 plugin for Netscape under Linux.

So again, don't expect to see a native version of Quicktime for Linux anytime soon... but don't expect Apple to completely ignore Linux either. (Insert obligatory plug for Codeweaver's plugin here... here's mine: Quicktime works great even on my laptop! Try it out!)

Quicktime on Linux

[bluetoad]

Quicktime on Linux is not a problem with the CodeWeavers plug-in Crossover plugin (http://www.codeweavers.com). Some will baulk at the 20 bucks.