Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the finally-moving-forward dept.
jandrese writes "According to Cnet, Intel is finally getting around to supporting DDR SDRAM in their P4 chipsets. This is a good move on Intel's part, as they need to bring the cost of their P4 based systems down to compete with AMD, and moving away from Rambus is a good start."
I Broke it I Bought it!
by
artlu
·
· Score: 1, Informative
I recently had a P4 1.4Ghz with 256megs of RDRAM. I fried that processor. How, you ask? By breaking the fan clips and seeing if it would boot without a fan on. (It doesn't, dont run a proc without a fan or other cooling solution, unless u want to waste money).
Anyway, i had to buy a new Motherboard, Proc, but not ram. However, i was sufficiently impressed with the new Athlon XP line. (especially the low cost of the XP 1600+).
Basically, i ended up updating my system to an AMD Athlon XP 1600+, Abit KG7-Raid MoBo, and with 256megs of Crucial PC2100 DDR Sdram at 266mhz. This machine SCREAMS compared to my P4 with DDR, and the processor is the exact same clock frequency. RDRAM is faster in benchmarks, but for me, the price vs. performance for the AMD was unquestionable around christmas time and now i'd think twice about getting an AMD vs. Intel if Intel supports DDR.
p.s. I know RDRAM is faster, but my DDR just seems more stable and more responsive, just me, who knows.
Have a good one,
AJ
Initial Designs
by
Murdock037
·
· Score: 3, Informative
As we all know, the P4 is designed to take advantage of high memory bandwidth-- which is why the 845 chipset (or whatever) that used SDRAM was such a flop.
When the P4 was first introduced, Intel claimed that it was designed specifically for RDRAM. If this is true-- and I suppose it doesn't have to be-- then is it possible that the new DDR stuff will actually perform below RDRAM systems? Is the only advantage going to be price?
I'm not really a tech guy, so this is an honest question. I'm not a Rambus fan-- I've got a PIII with the 820 chipset, and I'm not particularly fond of it-- but could it be that the company that everybody hates is actually the better way to go in this case?
Of course, everybody around here is going to be be gushing over DDR over Rambus-- if they choose Intel over AMD, which doesn't seem likely-- but it seems that Intel is either stepping backwards or conflicting with their past words.
RDRAM not to bad....
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 3, Informative
People seem to forget that RDRAM has gone down DRAMATICALLY in price. The days of $900 128mb RIMM's are long gone. You can order 256mb RIMM's for like $76 on pricewatch.com now
Yes DDR is still cheaper per mb, but RDRAM isn't that much more expensive. Especially when you consider how fast & stable it is in the i850 chipset by Intel.
Hasn't anyone being paying attention to VIA? What about the P4X266 chipset, even Tyan has a board with it: http://tyan.com/products/html/trinity510.html
Intel motherboards and chipsets are fine however you don't have to wait for Intel to come out with a DDR chipset for your P4. VIA has one already.
The i845 actually does and has supported DDR SDRAM since it was designed. Only, Intel has only allowed motherboard manufacturers to produce SDRAM-based boards thus far, allegedly for "validation" reasons, although clearly pressure from Rambus has had something to do with it.
Then there are the DDR P4 chipsets from both VIA and SiS. Don't forget about that.
--
"(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
Re:Isn't it too late to worry about this?
by
nusuth
·
· Score: 3, Informative
My comments were only applicable to programs that stress memory subsystem, otherwise you won't see much of a difference between sdram and rdram anyway. So I didn't (at least didn't intend to) claim that all (even most) apps should be tuned for optimal memory performance.
I don't agree with you comment about context switching emphasising latency. Context switching takes doesn't happen frequently, time slices are too long from a cpu perspective (linux defaults to 10ms, I guess that corresponds to ten million or so cycles.) Contexts are loaded in burst rates so latency would have little effect on overall performance. Offcourse it might be that context switching occurs more frequently because programs are releasing their time slices, but that would mean you don't need performance either since your processes are idle. A busy process still gets its ten million cycles, wasting a tiny percentage on context switching - high latency or not.
Its almost 4am here, I'd better sleep now.
--
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Re:Rambus - now even more obsolete!
by
talonyx
·
· Score: 2, Informative
I'm an Athlon fan too, but I have to point out one error: P4's don't catch fire, or even burn out in most cases - they simply turn off.
It wasn't so much the price of RAMBUS...
by
Derek
·
· Score: 4, Informative
...it was the principle!!
For those who missed it. In 1992 Rambus joined an industry consortium (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council JEDEC) made up of companies seeking to develop a *royalty-free* standard for the next generation of memory chips. The resulting standards (SDRAM, and DDR RAM) have been widely adopted during the past few years.
Then, about a year ago, Rambus let the lawyers loose. They claimed that, despite its participation in JEDEC, it owned patents that were being infringed upon by any company making SDRAM or DDR RAM chips without a license. Moreover, Rambus claimed it was entitled to damages in the form of retroactive royalty payments.
Re:Rambus - now even more obsolete!
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 1, Informative
No. Read the THG article. The same article states that the P4 *KEEPS RUNNING WITHOUT A HEATSINK OR FAN* while the P3 crashes and the Athlon fries itself.
I'm as big an Athlon fan as you can find, but if you are willing to let your HSF fall off, go with the P4
Slashdot Mirror
I recently had a P4 1.4Ghz with 256megs of RDRAM. I fried that processor. How, you ask? By breaking the fan clips and seeing if it would boot without a fan on. (It doesn't, dont run a proc without a fan or other cooling solution, unless u want to waste money).
Anyway, i had to buy a new Motherboard, Proc, but not ram. However, i was sufficiently impressed with the new Athlon XP line. (especially the low cost of the XP 1600+).
Basically, i ended up updating my system to an AMD Athlon XP 1600+, Abit KG7-Raid MoBo, and with 256megs of Crucial PC2100 DDR Sdram at 266mhz. This machine SCREAMS compared to my P4 with DDR, and the processor is the exact same clock frequency. RDRAM is faster in benchmarks, but for me, the price vs. performance for the AMD was unquestionable around christmas time and now i'd think twice about getting an AMD vs. Intel if Intel supports DDR.
p.s. I know RDRAM is faster, but my DDR just seems more stable and more responsive, just me, who knows.
Have a good one,
AJ
-------
artlu.net
As we all know, the P4 is designed to take advantage of high memory bandwidth-- which is why the 845 chipset (or whatever) that used SDRAM was such a flop.
When the P4 was first introduced, Intel claimed that it was designed specifically for RDRAM. If this is true-- and I suppose it doesn't have to be-- then is it possible that the new DDR stuff will actually perform below RDRAM systems? Is the only advantage going to be price?
I'm not really a tech guy, so this is an honest question. I'm not a Rambus fan-- I've got a PIII with the 820 chipset, and I'm not particularly fond of it-- but could it be that the company that everybody hates is actually the better way to go in this case?
Of course, everybody around here is going to be be gushing over DDR over Rambus-- if they choose Intel over AMD, which doesn't seem likely-- but it seems that Intel is either stepping backwards or conflicting with their past words.
People seem to forget that RDRAM has gone down DRAMATICALLY in price. The days of $900 128mb RIMM's are long gone. You can order 256mb RIMM's for like $76 on pricewatch.com now
Yes DDR is still cheaper per mb, but RDRAM isn't that much more expensive. Especially when you consider how fast & stable it is in the i850 chipset by Intel.
Hasn't anyone being paying attention to VIA? What about the P4X266 chipset, even Tyan has a board with it: http://tyan.com/products/html/trinity510.html
Intel motherboards and chipsets are fine however you don't have to wait for Intel to come out with a DDR chipset for your P4. VIA has one already.
Nathaniel P. Wilkerson
www.haidacarver.com
The i845 actually does and has supported DDR SDRAM since it was designed. Only, Intel has only allowed motherboard manufacturers to produce SDRAM-based boards thus far, allegedly for "validation" reasons, although clearly pressure from Rambus has had something to do with it.
Then there are the DDR P4 chipsets from both VIA and SiS. Don't forget about that.
"(Man) tries to live his own life as if he were telling a story. But you have to choose: live or tell." --Sartre
I don't agree with you comment about context switching emphasising latency. Context switching takes doesn't happen frequently, time slices are too long from a cpu perspective (linux defaults to 10ms, I guess that corresponds to ten million or so cycles.) Contexts are loaded in burst rates so latency would have little effect on overall performance. Offcourse it might be that context switching occurs more frequently because programs are releasing their time slices, but that would mean you don't need performance either since your processes are idle. A busy process still gets its ten million cycles, wasting a tiny percentage on context switching - high latency or not.
Its almost 4am here, I'd better sleep now.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
I'm an Athlon fan too, but I have to point out one error: P4's don't catch fire, or even burn out in most cases - they simply turn off.
For those who missed it. In 1992 Rambus joined an industry consortium (Joint Electron Device Engineering Council JEDEC) made up of companies seeking to develop a *royalty-free* standard for the next generation of memory chips. The resulting standards (SDRAM, and DDR RAM) have been widely adopted during the past few years.
Then, about a year ago, Rambus let the lawyers loose. They claimed that, despite its participation in JEDEC, it owned patents that were being infringed upon by any company making SDRAM or DDR RAM chips without a license. Moreover, Rambus claimed it was entitled to damages in the form of retroactive royalty payments.
And then the lawsuits began....
-Derek
No. Read the THG article. The same article states that the P4 *KEEPS RUNNING WITHOUT A HEATSINK OR FAN* while the P3 crashes and the Athlon fries itself.
I'm as big an Athlon fan as you can find, but if you are willing to let your HSF fall off, go with the P4