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Sunset Clauses in Software

DaveAtFraud writes: "Ed Foster over at InfoWorld has an interesting column on "sunset" clauses in commercial software. I don't have a problem with people who write, say, anti-virus software charging for a "subscription" to their virus signature update service. I am paying for something of value to me and it costs them something to maintain this data. I do have a problem with the same people extracting a little extra "squeeze" every couple of years and forcing me to learn yet another user interface just because they have decided that the old one looks little dated. Somehow, I don't buy (no pun intended) that their engine for scanning a byte stream has changed again."

16 of 293 comments (clear)

  1. What to do with the obsolete versions? by mpicker0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A company can only be expected to support a prior version for so long. We develop vertical market apps, and support a single major revision back.

    But what I'd also like to see is older versions being made free (as in beer) after a specfied time. DOS 6.0 and Win 3.11, old Amiga games, whatever. Since there's no real potential for those to ever make a profit again, why not help the handful of people who may still be able to make some use of them?

  2. It's a question of ethics... by blackcoot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And the computer industry in general has demonstrated that the concept of ethics no longer applies when there is money at stake. Read the average EULA: you have to surrender fundamental rights, such as fair use. Worse than that, the developers generally absolve themselves of any responsibility or liability whatsoever -- they won't even guarantee that the software that you have just bought will do what they claim it does! What we're seeing is the culmination of an unfortunate trend. The creators of a piece of software for as long as they control it have a monopoly -- anyone committed to using their product is pretty much at their mercy. And that means money -- lots of money.

    1. Re:It's a question of ethics... by grid+geek · · Score: 4, Informative

      On the other hand the UK gets around this by declaring that even if the consumer agrees to the EULA initially to install the software they still have all their legal rights for fair use, reliability etc. For example I could agree to the EULA of a CD-RW drive/software saying I will not copy music CD's, however UK legislation allows me to make a backup copy of any software or media which is in a format which could be damaged or destroyed so long as it is for my use only. Despite agreeing to the EULA I couldn't be prosecuted for piracy unless I distributed it.

      So all we need is well worded legislation which protects the consumer at the cost of big business ... good luck with Congress.

  3. Installation complete. by Boiling_point_ · · Score: 4, Funny

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    --
    "If you create user accounts, by default, they will have an account type of Administrator with no password." KB Q293834
  4. It happens in hardware to... by jweatherley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This forced obsolescence is evil. If you collect old arcade machines you come across a similar problem - the suicide battery. Certain Japanese manufacturers had a small amount of battery powered RAM that held the decryption tables to decode the game ROMs - when the battery goes your cabinet is useless!

    Why? Why? Why? If I buy something I expect it to work and I certainly don't expect the manufacturer to put a time bomb in it! Same goes for software. The problem boils down to the fact that you don't own the software - you just get a licence to use it under whatever restrictive clauses the vendor can dream up. There's certainly something to be said for genuinely free software - once you've got it it is your's to do with as you please.

    --

    --
    Reverse outsourcing: it's the future
  5. It's just wrong by Katravax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know all the arguments about how it's a corporation's responsibility to maximize profits for their shareholders, etc., but the only thing I see here is greed. I see people being laid off left and right while CEOs take home bonuses that would have paid all those salaries for another year. I see cuts made in quality and higher charges made for support while the price of the products go up. I see employees put on salary and threatened into working long hours for no extra consideration. When the fuck did money become more important than everything else?

    I probably sound pollyannish saying that when I pay for something, I want to use it how I see fit. I know all the college kids are going to start whining that I should use Linux instead, but I don't like Linux, as much as I've tried, so I guess I just have to take whatever crap the corps feed me. I've been a victim of the PowerQuest upgrade cycle myself, and it pisses me off as much as it pisses the next guy off. The software isn't worth $50 per year, but that's what they manage to drag out of me because of their harsh policies.

    But more than the sunset clauses, more than crappy software, the greed makes me shake my head. When is enough money enough? What is gained by adding another couple million to your own bank account when there are so many there already? In the end, you're going to die anyway, so at least make the world a better place rather than just stuffing your money chest fuller. Do these people care that no one likes them? Do they care that they're despised and all their plebs would ditch them at the first opportunity? Has greed outweighed every other thing in life? It looks to me like it has.

  6. Re:Not just software... by C0vardeAn0nim0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Honda doesn't mind if you open the hood to tweak your car, and you know why ?

    Do you know how much equipment you need to make a perfect copy of a Civic ? do you know how much this said equipment cost ?

    Ford has the equipment, knowledge and $$$ to do this, but if they do Honda WILL fill a law suit aleging lots of patents and copyright infringment. As a result Ford rathers design theyr own models.

    Know, what kind of equipment do you need to make a perfect copy of a software ? how much does it cost ?

    You just need a computer with a CD burner. anyone can buy one for less tha US$ 2.000,00 and doing the copy is a nobrainer. THAT'S why software makers DO mind if you start to tweak with their products.

    You want to tweak your software ? fix that litle anoyance you found ? Use free (as in freedom) software. Linux, Hurd, GNU, whatever... The guys who develop the code does't mind if you take a look or change what they did.

    --
    What ? Me, worry ?
  7. This has always been a very common practice: by linuxrunner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Software companies from just about day one, have been doing this.
    Call it what you want, a "sunset clause", a "bomb", etc. Basically the software expires and you must pay up for another.

    The main cause of this isn't closed source software, but lack of competition.

    It's the lack of competition that allows the companies to do this. Obviously if there was another software service you could buy from, you would, wouldn't you?
    Even today there are a lot of small industries that buy software with these "expiration dates" in them because they have no where else to go, and can not afford to pay someone to write their own code.

    To all you up and coming developers.... find these markets and make software for them. It won't make you rich, but it's a start....

    --
    www.slightlycrewed.com - Because aren't we all?
    1. Re:This has always been a very common practice: by Croaker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing is... most people *are* buying a limited license... it's just that they assume that they are not. The vast majority click "OK" instead of reading the EULA. Of course, software companies go out of their way to make you think you are "buying" their software initially, rather than licensing it.

      But anyhow... how many people buy software with an eye to its longevity? Probably, the main thing people think about in this respect is whether the company manking the software is established. Intuit has been around eons (in computer years) so it's fairly safe to say they will be there down the line, so you will still be able to run Quicken whatever IS will be around in 5 or 10 years.

      At least with current software, you have it on your system, and the company can't do much about that beyond no longer giving you support. Just wait until more and more software uses the "passport" model where you need to connect to a license database when you install, or even worse, every time you use the product.

      This is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait until more software is sold as "services." "Oh, hey, your license ran out. If you want your payroll data, you'll have to pony up more cash. Oh, and we raised our rates last month, so you'll be paying us triple what you paid initially. Have a nice day."

      In this model, however, at least there should be more disclosure about the end date. It'll be more obvious that you have "subscribed" to Quicken for a year or two, rather than having bought a shrink-wrapped box and having to guess about when the "time bomb" will go off.

  8. OS Upgrade = Appl upgrades, back on the treadmill by zoward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I recently upgraded to Windows XP, hoping to get a stability boost from the NT engine in XP. I often work from home, and the multitasking required by my work had Win98 bluescreen as often as once an hour. I dreaded the upgrade because of what I knew was going to happen: I am now in the process of reloading my favorite applications one by one to see which ones are going to work and which ones are going to require upgrade in order to run under WinXP.

    I couldn't even start the intall program for Easy CD Creator 4 before Windows XP itself told me that my version was out of date and I'd need to upgrade. Even the shrink-wrapped copies of ECDC at BestBuy touted a download you could get to make it XP-compliant (ie, it doesn't even work out of the box).

    Music Match Jukebox 4 loads, but hangs my system the minute I try to rip am MP3. I can download the latest version, but in order for it to rip at 160K I have to pay for an upgrade.

    I don't even feel the need to get the latest versions of these programs; they're jam-packed with extraneous features I won't use. I need to upgrade for the sole reason that I upgraded my OS.
    All other apps combined, I'm running about 50/50 - half of my stable of frequently-used programs run under XP; half don't.

    Granted, I could create a system partition for my old copy of Win98SE, load the program there, and keep going. I could cobble together a script of command-line utilities to do some of the same things under Linux (or maybe find a decent screen-driven app, but most are lacking in completeness and/or integration). Or I can knuckle under and ante up to maintain status quo.

    *Sigh.* If I ever needed a kick in the pants to migrate more of my day-to-day functionality to my Linux partition, it arrived on my doorstep yesterday.

    --
    "Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
  9. Fundamentally, software is BROKEN as a "product". by dpilot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You have to look a little deeper for the real problem. As a society, we are used to selling *things*. *Things* eventually wear out, require repair, get consumed, etc. Then you have to go out and buy another *thing* to replace it. Some *things* last longer than others, but all are essentially ephemeral.

    Even though the concepts embodied in a book are eternal, the book itself is ephemeral, so in the public mind it became a *thing*, just like any other *thing*.

    Enter the electronic age, and the liberation of the idea from the containing physical medium.

    Aside from all the copyright brou-ha-ha, look at the implications on a software industry. Simply put, bits don't wear out. They may become obsolete; their physical expression may wear out; but the bits themselves don't.

    So how do you build a "Software Industry". Either you force obsolescence, so that what you just sold will 'wear out' after a while, and you can once again treat it like a *thing*, or you strive for a newer, more appropriate model.

    From what I can tell, software actually began on a 'non-*thing*' model, with revenue largely derived through service. But once the dollar potential got big enough, the *thing* model came in and took over.

    OTOH, now we're nearing the end of the exponential growth curve in many areas, and maybe there's a chance for a newer, more sane model to re-emerge. People are getting tired of the upgrade churn of forced obsolescence.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  10. And when the company screws up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Posting as ac for a reason.

    The company I work for follows the support-subscription-and-charge-a-premium-to- upgrade-to-the-new-version business model . Since it was in the company's interest to increase revenue, they came out with a new whiz bang gui version of an old character based tool. The customer base ooed and aahed over the pretty screens and didn't realize they were being forced marched off of an ugly, functional and stable platform onto a pretty and unstable platform. Never mind that the new tool didn't support all the requisite customer functions - it was Pretty.

    Pretty was worthless. During the last major migration, Pretty went down in flames. Pretty has been killed and now the company is saying "But wait! We've got Beautiful over here! Use that instead!"

    During all of this, the customers have had two choices - stay with an old tool that works and the company has announced is dead or migrate. Since the company is about maximizing profits, the company didn't ever consider that it was in the customer's best interest to just incrementally revise the old stalwart tool.

    As a result, our customers are pissed and our competitors are having a field day. However, even if the customers migrate to our competitors, they're not fundamentally better off. Our competitors use the same business model. Company knows that and the customer knows that.

    Given what's happened over the past year, if I were the customer, I'd insist that the source be opened up. If the company says no, then migrate to a vendor that says yes. That way, if the old tool does 95% of what I want, I can pay someone to add the other 5%.

    My guess is it'll be twenty years before the customers start reading /. and become sophisticated enough to understand that.

  11. Re:Because so many people understand the real worl by pubjames · · Score: 5, Informative

    Think of a "group of people" brought together for one purpose. If that purpose is business, then making a profit is what they are all about. In the United States business schools probably teach as much ethics as they do in the computer science program I graduated from ( A 1 Semester hour course, as compared to 3 for normal classes ). Businesses do not exist to promote good ethics. They exist to make money.

    This is so sad. "Hey, so we do bad things, we have no choice, we're a business!"

    You do have a choice. Employees have a choice. Shareholders have a choice. Company managers have a choice.

    I am Managing Director (that's CEO to you) of an IT company. A lot of my clients are reasonably ignorant about IT. It would be fairly easy for me to lie to them and sell them products and services that they don't really need, or deliberately lock them into solutions that it will be difficult for them to get out of again. It would probably make my company more profitable, and I know of companies that do it. But you know what? I don't do it. Why? Because it's wrong. When I deal with my clients, I am dealing with people. I don't think to myself "Hey, I can fuck these ignorant guys over and make lots of money." To me, and I would hope to most people, my personal values are more important than getting rich.

    I imagine that Bill Gates rocks himself to sleep at night thinking "I've got all those suckers locked in and now I can raise prices and they can do nothing about it! What a bunch of losers! I'm the king of the world!" I know people like Bill Gates are highly respected in America, but they aren't so much in my corner of the world - they're seen as greedy, selfish ego-maniacs.

  12. Our discontinued software was free (as in beer) by kriegsman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I led a small, innovative Internet software company for six years -- long enough for several of our older products to be superceded by newer, different, or competing ones, and to ultimately be retired.

    In most cases, when we finally discontinued all support for a product, especially a potentially mission-critical server product, we made a fully-functional perpetually-licensed version of the software available for free to anyone who wanted it, and who acknowledged that there was no warranty or support.

    Our logic was simple: once there was no more money for us to make with a product, if people found it useful (in its completely unsupported state), then at least we were doing something good for our customer community, and hopefully generating a little goodwill.

    I think for some kinds of software, making "retired" products available (unsupported) for free has the potential to be good for everyone involved.

    -Mark Kriegsman

  13. Norton Antivirus - real case scenario by Vspirit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    my mother has an IBM laptop with norton antivirus preinstalled. Thats good. You've paid for the software once. That was one of the motivators for her to buy the laptop. All she now need to do is to upgrade her access to the virus definition updates. Thats good. Now just recently her last subscription ran out and she wanted to renew this. She couldn't. There were nolonger an option to update order a new subscription to that version of Norton Antivirus. She have to upgrade the whole software package though all she need is the antivirus definition subscription to be updated. Something they did not say wasn't possible in the marketing. Now she can't and is running without antivirus.

    She has lost her trust in the Antivirus company who's most important issue is trust in their service.

    Similar cases are seen with small business clients of mine who were promised the same from the marketing of Norton.

    They have been left out in the open as well.

    Fact is that eg. the marketing of Norton antivirus have not lived up to its promises = false marketing in my book, and in law in Europe/Denmark it means a crime.

    So I'm now wondering if we will see class action suits in America sooner or later knowing this is going on.

    And just to finish it off.. Where are the companies strategy? it definately do not seem to be in quality when quality is defined by:

    what is delivered / what is expected = 1
    if the result is not 1, quality is questionable.

  14. The free market can take care of this, too by dcavanaugh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Once upon a time, software was primitive (PC, mainframe, makes no difference). Constant bugfixes and new/improved versions were a fact of life. No one ever thought the software companies were doing this just forose things would be free. In the PC world, you bought the base product once at full price and subsequent upgrades at a discount. In the mainframe world, you bought the product once and then paid 20% annually for "maintenance", which was essentially a subscription for any patches, new versions, and phone support. In this scenario, software companies had work to do, and a customer base willing to pay for it.

    Then software "matured". Fewer bugs, more features than most people needed, not much of an incentive to keep upgrading. Y2K and excessive hardware/software costs put alot of mainframe systems into "legacy/do not upgrade" status. The few vendors who had mission-critical mainframe products really "milked" the customer base with whopper fees. Ask some of the IBM big-iron customers about CA (or IBM for that matter). It didn't take long for customers to revolt.

    Today, we see this in the PC world. Many people are jumping off the upgrade bandwagon because they see insufficient benefits to justify the cost. Microsoft is a perfect example: they have a diminishing upgrade rate with each new release of Office. Why? Because the product is mature -- each new release is only a little better than the one before, and the customers are not really clamoring for new features.

    Companies that have mission-critical PC products will no doubt use restrictive licensing to assure a revenue stream even if there isn't much of a demand for upgrades and bugfixes -- hence "Software Assurance (tm)" from Microsoft.

    It always was and still is the responsiblity of the customer to figure out how to avoid getting painted into a corner and "milked". Look for competitive vendors, be willing to migrate to new products, consider open source alternatives. Plan an escape path for everything you do. The alternative is to get "milked" as a cash cow.