Posted by
michael
on from the promising-news dept.
TheSync writes: "The BBC reports in an article that the Mars Odyssey spacecraft has detected large deposits of hydrogen at high latitudes using its neutron spectrometer. This may indicate significant water ice on the surface of Mars!"
Re:What's the signifigance....
by
Spamalamadingdong
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
The significance may be that the neutron spectrometer is working.;)
Really, the significance depends on who you're talking to. To the geochemists, I'll bet it means that there are probably mineral formations being made by percolation of soda-water through rocks (place a CO2 glacier on top of an H2O glacier and you'll get things dissolving into each other near the bottom where the pressures get up there). To the xenobiologists, it means that they've got a place to look for life. To the planetary scientists, they've got something against which to test their models of atmospheric/hydrospheric formation and evolution. To the Mars Society, it's a guarantee of the raw materials for rocket fuel, agriculture and an eventual technological society on the Red Planet.
Colonization isn't as far away as it seems
by
Tattva
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
With this information, we have all the technology we need to permanently colonize mars at a reasonable price. Take the south pole science stations: self-contained, self heated, comfortable places to live where the only outside resources they utilized were gravity, air, and snow. Mars has all 3, but the air would need a little more work. With hydroponics, solar panels and limited chemical lab and machine shop capabilities, a self-sustaining colony is quite reasonable. Buckminster Fuller's geodesic domes are incredibly efficient enclosures, and could probably be constructed with polymers created from materials readily available in the ground.
The only thing I am not sure about is iron, copper, and other metals deposits. Polymers replace the need for these in many cases, but not all. Anyone know the mineral layout of Mars? I imagine it is like every unmined region on the Earth, incredibly rich in easily-retrievable resources. Just think of Austria's Tallar gold mines (the largest gold strike in history and the origin of the word "dollar.") or South America's Potassi silver mines (the largest silver strike.)
The only question is whether colonizing Mars is something humanity wants to do. The return on investment on Earth in economic terms would probably be close to nil due to the cost of transport. On the other hand, making sure all our eggs aren't in one basket sounds like a reasonable self-preservation strategy.
-- personal attacks hurt, especially when deserved
Interesting....
by
Fenris2001
·
· Score: 5, Interesting
The article states that the evidence of hydrogen was found in the soil near the polar caps - not unexpected, but nonetheless interesting.
There is overwhelming evidence that water flowed on Mars in the geologically recent past. The main question for those studying Mars is, Where did that water go?
We've known since the Mariner probes that there is a large reserve of water in the ice caps at either pole, but this reserve is not large enough to account for all of the erosion features of Mars. If, as has been suggested recently, there was once a giant ocean covering the northern hemisphere of Mars, then there is a LOT of water missing from Mars.
If, as has been suggested, there is a significant amount of water adsorbed into the soil of Mars, and as these results seem to indicate, this could account for the missing water.
Other theories suggest that the absence of a Martian magnetosphere may explain the lack of water on Mars - without a shield from a planetary magnetic field, the solar wind would dissociate large amounts of water vapor in the atmosphere - raising the amount of free oxygen. The hydrogen would be lost into space, especially on a planet as small as Mars.
Why is this important? Because some of the smae processes are going on here on Earth - water is lost through photo-ionization and conversion to crustal rocks. The amount of water vapor in our atmosphere is a very important factor in global warming and weather patterns. So, by studying another planet, we can learn about our own. Very neat stuff.
South pole stations
by
wowbagger
·
· Score: 5, Insightful
Actually, those stations get a hell of a lot more than just "air, snow, gravity" - they get massive shipments of fuel oil, food, construction materials, electronic supplies, medical supplies, you name it.
They manufacture almost NONE of their needs.
Now, were we to build a south pole station that actually DID use only water, air, and gravity, and created everything else they needed from materials found at the south pole and processed there, that would be something.
Oxygen doesn't mean spit
by
Spamalamadingdong
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Better than 2/3 of the mass of CO2 (dry ice) is oxygen, and there's plenty of that at the poles. A large fraction of the mass of rock is silicon dioxide, which is full of (would you ever have guessed it?)... oxygen. An oxygen detector will find it everywhere on any rocky object.
The stuff that's hard to find in accessible form off of Earth isn't oxygen, it's hydrogen. Once you've got the hydrogen it's not difficult to turn it into whatever other form you need. On a planet-like body the most likely form in which you'll find hydrogen is going to be water, though you might find traces of ammonia if it's cold enough.
The other thing about water is that it dissolves things and leaves other things. Movement of water tends to create useful ores, placer deposits of insoluble stuff like gold, and other things you could get an earful about by asking a mining engineer or geologist. Knowing where water is tells you where to look for those things.
Re:Waiting to exhale... a waste?
by
Fenris2001
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Well, not necessarily.
By melting the ice caps and driving water out of the soil, it would be possible to create a shirt-sleeve environment for humans and many other terrestrial species. I won't go into specifics, but I'm sure most/. readers are familiar with the concept: big orbiting mirrors focused on the ice caps, black dust spread on the ground to raise the temperature, artificial greenhouse gases, etc.
The point of all this effort would not be to create a stable system - that is probably impossible, due to the weak gravity and solar radiation environment. However, for a few tens of thousands of years, Mars would be habitable by almost every species on Earth.
I agree that the reality of making Mars habitable is not like the fantasies of most Mars Society members (I'm not one, though I link to them in my.sig). We can't turn Mars into another Eden, but we don't have to in order to learn a great many things & create a biological reservoir in case a truly astronomical disaster befalls our current ecosystem.
Mars is valuable in the minds of many for the opportunity it offers - truly global projects can be done that would be impossible on Earth for reasons of safety. Some of these are silly (melting the ice caps with thermonuclear weapons), others serious (building giant cables that stretch from orbit to the surface). The problem comes when, for whatever reasons, the delusions of some people crash headlong into reality.
Percival Lowell thought he saw a network of canals built by a Martian civilization, and Burroughs wrote books chronicling the end of that noble race. Neither the canals or the civilization existed.
If we approach the unknown with an open mind and a sense of wonder, then we learn much more about the way things really are. If we keep pinning our hopes and dreams on phantoms, we will forever be disappointed.
Slashdot Mirror
Really, the significance depends on who you're talking to. To the geochemists, I'll bet it means that there are probably mineral formations being made by percolation of soda-water through rocks (place a CO2 glacier on top of an H2O glacier and you'll get things dissolving into each other near the bottom where the pressures get up there). To the xenobiologists, it means that they've got a place to look for life. To the planetary scientists, they've got something against which to test their models of atmospheric/hydrospheric formation and evolution. To the Mars Society, it's a guarantee of the raw materials for rocket fuel, agriculture and an eventual technological society on the Red Planet.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
The only thing I am not sure about is iron, copper, and other metals deposits. Polymers replace the need for these in many cases, but not all. Anyone know the mineral layout of Mars? I imagine it is like every unmined region on the Earth, incredibly rich in easily-retrievable resources. Just think of Austria's Tallar gold mines (the largest gold strike in history and the origin of the word "dollar.") or South America's Potassi silver mines (the largest silver strike.)
The only question is whether colonizing Mars is something humanity wants to do. The return on investment on Earth in economic terms would probably be close to nil due to the cost of transport. On the other hand, making sure all our eggs aren't in one basket sounds like a reasonable self-preservation strategy.
personal attacks hurt, especially when deserved
The article states that the evidence of hydrogen was found in the soil near the polar caps - not unexpected, but nonetheless interesting.
There is overwhelming evidence that water flowed on Mars in the geologically recent past. The main question for those studying Mars is, Where did that water go?
We've known since the Mariner probes that there is a large reserve of water in the ice caps at either pole, but this reserve is not large enough to account for all of the erosion features of Mars. If, as has been suggested recently, there was once a giant ocean covering the northern hemisphere of Mars, then there is a LOT of water missing from Mars.
If, as has been suggested, there is a significant amount of water adsorbed into the soil of Mars, and as these results seem to indicate, this could account for the missing water.
Other theories suggest that the absence of a Martian magnetosphere may explain the lack of water on Mars - without a shield from a planetary magnetic field, the solar wind would dissociate large amounts of water vapor in the atmosphere - raising the amount of free oxygen. The hydrogen would be lost into space, especially on a planet as small as Mars.
Why is this important? Because some of the smae processes are going on here on Earth - water is lost through photo-ionization and conversion to crustal rocks. The amount of water vapor in our atmosphere is a very important factor in global warming and weather patterns. So, by studying another planet, we can learn about our own. Very neat stuff.
---------------
Vpered na Mars!
Actually, those stations get a hell of a lot more than just "air, snow, gravity" - they get massive shipments of fuel oil, food, construction materials, electronic supplies, medical supplies, you name it.
They manufacture almost NONE of their needs.
Now, were we to build a south pole station that actually DID use only water, air, and gravity, and created everything else they needed from materials found at the south pole and processed there, that would be something.
www.eFax.com are spammers
The stuff that's hard to find in accessible form off of Earth isn't oxygen, it's hydrogen. Once you've got the hydrogen it's not difficult to turn it into whatever other form you need. On a planet-like body the most likely form in which you'll find hydrogen is going to be water, though you might find traces of ammonia if it's cold enough.
The other thing about water is that it dissolves things and leaves other things. Movement of water tends to create useful ores, placer deposits of insoluble stuff like gold, and other things you could get an earful about by asking a mining engineer or geologist. Knowing where water is tells you where to look for those things.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Well, not necessarily.
/. readers are familiar with the concept: big orbiting mirrors focused on the ice caps, black dust spread on the ground to raise the temperature, artificial greenhouse gases, etc.
.sig). We can't turn Mars into another Eden, but we don't have to in order to learn a great many things & create a biological reservoir in case a truly astronomical disaster befalls our current ecosystem.
By melting the ice caps and driving water out of the soil, it would be possible to create a shirt-sleeve environment for humans and many other terrestrial species. I won't go into specifics, but I'm sure most
The point of all this effort would not be to create a stable system - that is probably impossible, due to the weak gravity and solar radiation environment. However, for a few tens of thousands of years, Mars would be habitable by almost every species on Earth.
I agree that the reality of making Mars habitable is not like the fantasies of most Mars Society members (I'm not one, though I link to them in my
Mars is valuable in the minds of many for the opportunity it offers - truly global projects can be done that would be impossible on Earth for reasons of safety. Some of these are silly (melting the ice caps with thermonuclear weapons), others serious (building giant cables that stretch from orbit to the surface). The problem comes when, for whatever reasons, the delusions of some people crash headlong into reality.
Percival Lowell thought he saw a network of canals built by a Martian civilization, and Burroughs wrote books chronicling the end of that noble race. Neither the canals or the civilization existed.
If we approach the unknown with an open mind and a sense of wonder, then we learn much more about the way things really are. If we keep pinning our hopes and dreams on phantoms, we will forever be disappointed.
What the heck. It's only Karma.
---------------
Vpered na Mars!