Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the but-the-megacorps-punch-back dept.
Krimsen writes: "It's nice to see we still have some stories like we used to hear all the time in the mid-late 90's of the little guy beating the mega-corporations to the punch."
Re:Wireless access.
by
el_doop
·
· Score: 2, Informative
Don't get me wrong; it's really cool that you have wireless access in your small town ahead of the curve. I grew up in a tiny town. We were amazed when we found that we could get local dialup access from a small startup.
Three years later, those small startups were gone, swallowed by a major cable company and Earthlink. The idea of a small local ISP is romantic, but without offering something really special they are not able to compete when the major providers decide to roll into town, and they are in no position to turn down the serious cash these companies offer for an established local customer base.
Of course, Smaller ISP = Car Salesmen
by
BrookHarty
·
· Score: 5, Informative
Its bread and butter time for the smaller ISPs, they almost live month to month when they first start out they cant have a burn rate.
Starting at a small BBS turned ISP (cet.com), I seen how the owner would sell a full T1 and split it a dozen ways, scam customers on software packages, replace broken hardware that wasnt broken. I moved onto another ISP, and saw how the salesmen reminded me of car salesmen, "Let me talk to the manager..."
People dont see whats going on behind the scenes, how the young kids are working thier ass off to keep the servers up cause they cant hire professional admins. The systems are always having outages and they blame the larger telcos as a "network problem..."
That was my biggest problem, I couldnt stand being dishonest to a customer, and you cant be a good salesmen without bending the truth, spreading on the bullshit like butter. Even with a good product, its thier job to sell or they dont eat.
Smaller ISP's have to cut costs too, I remember when all the ISPs in Spokane moved into the tel-west building so they could cut out the local exchange. Save 200 bux on federal taxes and transport fees. A T1 that costs 900 bux wholesale could be bought for 500, since all they had to do was run some cable down the hallway (overhead). Sell the T1 (frac) to 10 people paying you 300 bux, and they pay thier own costs, you could out bid. And then charge them for any hourly work needed. (You need help configuring your router? 10 hours billed) Another reason ISPs needed to move into the telco buildings was the digital lines, to have the 56K v90 modems, the ISP has to have digital lines. I remember how everyone and thier brother was buying livingston port masters and running radius. Every ISP was the same, except for the modems on the end of the portmasters.
I think most slashdotters can confirm the shady side of the ISPs. How some run out of computer stores in the back, or BBS's that turned ISP. H
Hell, one of the most popular ISPs Eskimo here in seattle runs out of his living room. When I moved over here to this side of washington state, I went over and met the guy. Typical homegrown ISP, but this guy has shitloads of customers.
Been there done that, now I work for a major wireless telco, millions of customers, and I never have to be shady. Drawbacks? Less ownership in the product. I get paid, but I dont make the choices. Management and Marketing does. Sometimes I just shake my head and say "Umm, if our stockholders only knew....)
Someday Im going to start another business, and try to keep the "mom and pop" attitude. Actually sell what the customer wants, and give it to them. Only thing stands in my way, People are cheap. (-;
-
There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
here's a locator-thingy for wireless isps:
http://www.bbwexchange.com/wisps/
Prime Directive Quicklink - a local view...
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 0, Informative
The reason PDQLink [http://www.pdqlink.com] was set up was because AT&T has for the last 4 years delayed cable 'net service to the far western Chicago suburbs.
Within the last year, they have told those living in/around Aurora, IL that they will not be bringing cable access to the area for at least 5 years, if ever (and most of us here on the western edge of the suburbs are filthy rich SOB's! Why AT&T would ignore us is beyond logical reasoning, but, well...)
Now - PDQLink. They formed because there is a MASSIVE void in the market here for high-speed 'net access. Nearly everyone in the area is still on 56k dialup, despite the fact that 6 figure household incomes are quite common... PDQLink almost certainly knows this.
However, a few reports at dslreports.com show that they have a spotty record of quality. A friend of mine, in fact, called PDQ *twice* to have his home's location surveyed to determine if he has line-of-sight to one of the towers. A rep promised that somebody would be out within a week, but the rep never showed up after either call... He has since given up on PDQ (can't say as I blame him).
They are very much a local company, and I'd like to see them succeed, but they need to improve their quality first...
Oh - their lowest-price access fee is $40/month for 128k up/down and a *total* of 1GB/month transfer... $40/month * 12 months/year * 400 customers = minimum $192,000/year gross revenue. Take out the cost of their landline (don't know specifically - I'd guess couple of T1's, maybe a T3), plus figure $25k/year * 12 people = $300,000 (just for paying employees), and it's easy to see they're probably running in the red right now. *sigh*
I'd sign up right away if the x-fer limit were raised to >= 2GB and the price/speed ratio were something like $50/256k (instead of $40/128k, $65/256k, $90/384k -- all for a single box; multiple-system residences are more (but what about me routing everything through a Linux router I have?))... Hardware/setup costs, at ~$500, are prohibitive as well (to a poor student that is, not the rich WASP's I referred to above)...
At least PDQ claims to be "Linux friendly".:)
Re:The Dynamics of Starting an ISP
by
Lumpy
·
· Score: 3, Informative
you are missing a HUGE part of it. as a one owner of an ISP I'll tell you a bit of the problems.
your backbone. a T-1 is 700.00-1500.00 a month and a T-3 is way too damned expensive. Those prices is without internet connectivity, that's just the wire going from point A to point B. The internet access ranges from 1/2 to the same as the line's cost per month. Now you need dial in lines. If you go woth a maximum of 28.8 as a dial in speed, you can get some really nice Boca modem racks for cheap... but at 28.8 you'll get no customers. so you need 56K modem racks, Oh and a T-1 for every modem rack of 24 incoming lines. you HAVE to buy 24 phonelines at a time as that is how a T-1 is sold. This T-1 is more expensive than the above T-1, as you get charged per call on it.. incoming or outgoing. incoming is cheap, 0.01 per call but it does add up.
wireless is different. you need to set up 1-2 towers, and if you have a 2nd tower you need a t-1 or t-3 to it also. (selling broadband? t-3)
t1 is ONLY for selling 28-56K speeds. if you are trying to offer broadband a t-3 is the minimum you can buy, and you should have 2.
sorry, mom-pop types of these businesses are not normal anymore... most mom-s and pop-s dont have 1-2 mill to drop into equipment and 3 months operating capitol just to server a few dozen customers.
-- Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Just for the information (and slightly off-topic)
by
Cpyder
·
· Score: 3, Informative
This is the same guy of the utterly cool "Homebrew Dsl" (covered in this Slashdot story)
Back then, he said:
"So, having looked into wireless... My POP is at a very low point of town and it is right beside a rock bluff. Wireless would also cover the downtown corridor very nicely but it would also be limited in distance and would be much more expensive to get up and running. Especially when you consider that I would probably have to put in a point-to-point system to feed a multipoint-to-point system on top of one of the local grain elevators (If the grain company would let me)."
Looks like he finally convinced them...
Wireless is happening in the UK too.
by
Colin+Smith
·
· Score: 4, Informative
Tele2 (http://www.tele2.co.uk/) springs to mind, however, the bigger boys are also looking at it due to the last mile problems. It makes a lot of sense.
802.11b can't be used to provide a commercial ISP in the UK so Tele2 are using something up in the 4GHz range.
802.11b is however being used by individuals to connect together volunteer run wireless area networks, the biggest I'm aware of being Consume (http://consume.net/).
Slashdot Mirror
Don't get me wrong; it's really cool that you have wireless access in your small town ahead of the curve. I grew up in a tiny town. We were amazed when we found that we could get local dialup access from a small startup.
Three years later, those small startups were gone, swallowed by a major cable company and Earthlink. The idea of a small local ISP is romantic, but without offering something really special they are not able to compete when the major providers decide to roll into town, and they are in no position to turn down the serious cash these companies offer for an established local customer base.
Its bread and butter time for the smaller ISPs, they almost live month to month when they first start out they cant have a burn rate.
Starting at a small BBS turned ISP (cet.com), I seen how the owner would sell a full T1 and split it a dozen ways, scam customers on software packages, replace broken hardware that wasnt broken. I moved onto another ISP, and saw how the salesmen reminded me of car salesmen, "Let me talk to the manager..."
People dont see whats going on behind the scenes, how the young kids are working thier ass off to keep the servers up cause they cant hire professional admins. The systems are always having outages and they blame the larger telcos as a "network problem..."
That was my biggest problem, I couldnt stand being dishonest to a customer, and you cant be a good salesmen without bending the truth, spreading on the bullshit like butter. Even with a good product, its thier job to sell or they dont eat.
Smaller ISP's have to cut costs too, I remember when all the ISPs in Spokane moved into the tel-west building so they could cut out the local exchange. Save 200 bux on federal taxes and transport fees. A T1 that costs 900 bux wholesale could be bought for 500, since all they had to do was run some cable down the hallway (overhead). Sell the T1 (frac) to 10 people paying you 300 bux, and they pay thier own costs, you could out bid. And then charge them for any hourly work needed. (You need help configuring your router? 10 hours billed) Another reason ISPs needed to move into the telco buildings was the digital lines, to have the 56K v90 modems, the ISP has to have digital lines. I remember how everyone and thier brother was buying livingston port masters and running radius. Every ISP was the same, except for the modems on the end of the portmasters.
I think most slashdotters can confirm the shady side of the ISPs. How some run out of computer stores in the back, or BBS's that turned ISP. H
Hell, one of the most popular ISPs Eskimo here in seattle runs out of his living room. When I moved over here to this side of washington state, I went over and met the guy. Typical homegrown ISP, but this guy has shitloads of customers.
Been there done that, now I work for a major wireless telco, millions of customers, and I never have to be shady. Drawbacks? Less ownership in the product. I get paid, but I dont make the choices. Management and Marketing does. Sometimes I just shake my head and say "Umm, if our stockholders only knew....)
Someday Im going to start another business, and try to keep the "mom and pop" attitude. Actually sell what the customer wants, and give it to them. Only thing stands in my way, People are cheap. (-;
-
There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
here's a locator-thingy for wireless isps:
http://www.bbwexchange.com/wisps/
The reason PDQLink [http://www.pdqlink.com] was set up was because AT&T has for the last 4 years delayed cable 'net service to the far western Chicago suburbs.
:)
Within the last year, they have told those living in/around Aurora, IL that they will not be bringing cable access to the area for at least 5 years, if ever (and most of us here on the western edge of the suburbs are filthy rich SOB's! Why AT&T would ignore us is beyond logical reasoning, but, well...)
Now - PDQLink. They formed because there is a MASSIVE void in the market here for high-speed 'net access. Nearly everyone in the area is still on 56k dialup, despite the fact that 6 figure household incomes are quite common... PDQLink almost certainly knows this.
However, a few reports at dslreports.com show that they have a spotty record of quality. A friend of mine, in fact, called PDQ *twice* to have his home's location surveyed to determine if he has line-of-sight to one of the towers. A rep promised that somebody would be out within a week, but the rep never showed up after either call... He has since given up on PDQ (can't say as I blame him).
They are very much a local company, and I'd like to see them succeed, but they need to improve their quality first...
Oh - their lowest-price access fee is $40/month for 128k up/down and a *total* of 1GB/month transfer... $40/month * 12 months/year * 400 customers = minimum $192,000/year gross revenue. Take out the cost of their landline (don't know specifically - I'd guess couple of T1's, maybe a T3), plus figure $25k/year * 12 people = $300,000 (just for paying employees), and it's easy to see they're probably running in the red right now. *sigh*
I'd sign up right away if the x-fer limit were raised to >= 2GB and the price/speed ratio were something like $50/256k (instead of $40/128k, $65/256k, $90/384k -- all for a single box; multiple-system residences are more (but what about me routing everything through a Linux router I have?))... Hardware/setup costs, at ~$500, are prohibitive as well (to a poor student that is, not the rich WASP's I referred to above)...
At least PDQ claims to be "Linux friendly".
you are missing a HUGE part of it. as a one owner of an ISP I'll tell you a bit of the problems.
your backbone. a T-1 is 700.00-1500.00 a month and a T-3 is way too damned expensive. Those prices is without internet connectivity, that's just the wire going from point A to point B. The internet access ranges from 1/2 to the same as the line's cost per month. Now you need dial in lines. If you go woth a maximum of 28.8 as a dial in speed, you can get some really nice Boca modem racks for cheap... but at 28.8 you'll get no customers. so you need 56K modem racks, Oh and a T-1 for every modem rack of 24 incoming lines. you HAVE to buy 24 phonelines at a time as that is how a T-1 is sold. This T-1 is more expensive than the above T-1, as you get charged per call on it.. incoming or outgoing. incoming is cheap, 0.01 per call but it does add up.
wireless is different. you need to set up 1-2 towers, and if you have a 2nd tower you need a t-1 or t-3 to it also. (selling broadband? t-3)
t1 is ONLY for selling 28-56K speeds. if you are trying to offer broadband a t-3 is the minimum you can buy, and you should have 2.
sorry, mom-pop types of these businesses are not normal anymore... most mom-s and pop-s dont have 1-2 mill to drop into equipment and 3 months operating capitol just to server a few dozen customers.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
This is the same guy of the utterly cool "Homebrew Dsl" (covered in this Slashdot story)
Back then, he said:
"So, having looked into wireless... My POP is at a very low point of town and it is right beside a rock bluff. Wireless would also cover the downtown corridor very nicely but it would also be limited in distance and would be much more expensive to get up and running. Especially when you consider that I would probably have to put in a point-to-point system to feed a multipoint-to-point system on top of one of the local grain elevators (If the grain company would let me)."
Looks like he finally convinced them...
Tele2 (http://www.tele2.co.uk/) springs to mind, however, the bigger boys are also looking at it due to the last mile problems. It makes a lot of sense.
802.11b can't be used to provide a commercial ISP in the UK so Tele2 are using something up in the 4GHz range.
802.11b is however being used by individuals to connect together volunteer run wireless area networks, the biggest I'm aware of being Consume (http://consume.net/).
Deleted