Comparing Clarke/Kubrick's 2001 To Now

angkor wrote us about a recent Economist article that explores and compares the differences between Clarke/Kubrick's vision of 2001, and what we've got. Of course, I'd point out that the literary one wasn't meant to be a literal 2001; but this an interesting comparasion nonetheless.

Comments

not literal?

[ceswiedler]

What do you mean, it wasn't literal? Clarke and Kubrick obviously thought about things they thought would be happening in the near future. I seem to recall Clarke being pessimistic about an AI as smart as HAL, but that's not quite enough to label the date of 2001 as "not literal." In the book, the events clearly happen in the year 2001 AD (or most of them, anyway). 2001 is much more specific and literal than a dystopian book like 1984 (where I would agree the date is more symbolic).

Science fiction is never completely accurate, obviously. But Clarke was one of the most accurate and scientifically rational writers of the century. We haven't gotten to convenient interplanetary travel quite yet, but you can be sure that it will happen much like he describes: a large space station using 'centrifigal force' to simulate gravity, and rockets using the station as a waypoint so the same spacecraft doesn't have to be capable of lifting off from Earth as well as travelling to and landing on another planet or moon.

Now, being able to phone from the station to America for only a few dollars, that's probably a little over-optimistic...

Re:not literal?

[jimharris]

The progression of computer science evolution has far outstripped Clarke and Kubrick's imaginations. They only imagined an intelligent machine without going into the details. The details of computers have been developing at a wild pace since the sixties, which science fiction failed to predict.

Clarke's and Kubrick's real failure was not seeing how quickly space exploration would die. In 1968 it would be natural to predict that mankind would be traveling to Jupiter by 2001. What was unnatural to imagine was mankind would visit the moon, and then never leave low earth orbit for three decades. And there is no real reason to assume we'll leave low earth orbit for three more decades.

If they had predicted that in 1968 I would have been blown away by their power of their wisdom.
At the time I was positive that mankind would reach Mars in the 80's. Humanity's lack of real interest in space exploration has been my lifelong disappointment.

And, even though I love science fiction, the older I get the more I realize that science fiction is no more than fantasy. The gravity of the mundane keep us tied to this planet.

2001, the story just plain missed the mark.

The uses of science fiction.

[Lemmy Caution]

While an element of prophesy is part-and-parcel of science fiction, ultimately any work of literature is more about the times that it was written in rather than the times they are writing about.

A great book about the role of science fiction is Thomas Disch's "The Dreams Our Stuff is Made Of." The science fiction of the past often shapes our present by informing the imaginations of the people who created it. How many AI researchers cite HAL as an inspiration, goal, or benchmark?

Re:no HAL, no AI?

[roman_mir]

I am an atheist but I do not want my answer to be based on purely that assumption, I've being drawn into some religious battles but normally I try to stay away, it really is none of my business if someone believes in something. Atheism is in itself a system of believes, no doubts about that, of course atheists have rejected faith de facto and are trying to regain understanding of the world based on a different system of believes - so called scientific approach.

Are people just complex machines? Well, we know that no matter what else we are, we are also complex machines in some sence. We also benefit from symbiosis with other creatures (microorganisms that live inside our bodies) and we consume products that came from other organisms of this planet (I am a vegetarian, to me tomato is one of such products)
Now, let us assume that we do not know whether we just complex machines or we are some special creatures breeded by super-powerful God (or Gods, depending on your religion) So we have two cases to look at: first - we are very complex machines. If this is assumed, then it is not inconcievable that at some point in time we should be able to produce non-organic organisms that somehow imitate our own behaviour and even the train of thoughts. To duplicate our thought patterns, the creature will have to posses qualities that are shared by all living organisms on this planet (ability to see, hear, feel a touch, necessities for food or fuel) and qualities specific to human race - sex drive and necessity to socialize and some others. If we are just very complex machines, duplicating the environment for robots capable of all the above mentioned will probably drive these robots to become more like humans, will teach them to think in abstract ways, will force these robots to evolve (the merits of this evolution are questionable)

Now let's assume we are not simply complex machines, that for us in order to think in an abstract manner we need some divine intervention. In this case we still should be able to produce robots with above mentioned traits, but these robots will not amount to anything beyond social structures found in bee or ant colonies. At best in this case we could hope to produce intelligence comparable to that of a primate ape, a gorilla maybe, but even that would be a major break through. However, if it is completely and totally impossible to create intelligence comparable to human in a manner that humans can comprehend, we can still simulate it. You see, Alan Turin left specifications that allowed many to devise tests that can be used to find out whether you are communicating with a real human or with a machine. In fact, there are already today some AI programs that are capable of fooling some people and make us think that we are talking to a human rather than a machine. But the catch is that it does not really matter what or who you are talking to if you cannot tell the difference between it and an identifiable human. So, we could in principle have machines that would run simulated versions of ourself convincinly.

About us being unique - we are unique on this planet, we are the only creatures capable of handling tools and more importantly of producing a large number of different sounds that can be combined into complex speech. This is our main advantage and not something unidentifiable (if it were identifiable, we would have identified it already, otherwise it does not make any difference if it is there or not.)