Slashdot Mirror
Emigrating DVD's?
RenHoek asks: "I found the love of my life on the internet, and I'm about to emigrate from the Netherlands to the USA. This leaves me with a big problem. My carefully collected DVD's are region 2 (Europe) and the USA is region 1. So except for buying a new DVD player (220 volts in Europe, 110 in the USA) does this also mean I have to sell my entire DVD collection here, and try to buy everything together in the US? It would seem I have a legal right to watch my legally bought DVDs, but region locking prohibits this, and circumventing region locking carries stiff penalties. Emailing the MPAA resulted in deafening silence. So what does the slashdot community advise? Should I follow the new American dream and start suing the moment I enter the US for the fact that the MPAA is either taking away my rights, or forcing me into a DMCA crime?" Thank god there are regionless DVD players! For those who don't know about them, which ones do you recommend and where are
the best places to buy them?
I've easily found regionless hacked versions of Apple's DVD player software online. While I haven't used one myself, all reports point to the regionless part of the equation working while the playback quality depends on hardware/software version.
If you disagree then it must be overrated, redundant or trolling.
Couldn't you use your old DVD player with a voltage converter? Admittedly, it's a bit of a kludge, since you'll need a new player to play US bought DVDs, but it should tide you over in the meantime. Radio Shack sells plenty of them for less than $40.
evanchik.net
How would I know, I don't know about them, right?
Just buy a new player - but don't sell your old one, leave it at your parent's house, or put it in storage. In two years you'll be back home. :)
Be wary of getting a 'region-free' DVD player, as opposed to a region-switchable one. I seem to recall that some recent discs have a slightly different region-check that doesn't like region-free players, but is fine if you have a player that can be set to the correct region.
Wish I could remember what it was called, but I think Gladiator and some versions of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon were the two movies mentioned at the time.
That said, I have a region-free DVD player (Wharfdale DVD-750) and I've yet to come across a problem disc (apart from some VideoCDs, but that's another story).
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
you've have the entire Slashdot Crowd behind you
That, or it'll be the far more serious charge of conspiracy to deprive Walt Disney's frozen head of his rightful cash cow.
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
There's several hacks available to make it play DVD's from anywhere. There's one built into the hardware of some of them as illustrated here, or you can buy a disc to do it like this.
- Freed
"Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love." -Turkish Proverb
I don't know about Dutch law, but in the US I don't see any reason why you have a legal right to watch DVDs in a different region. In general, there seems to be a lot of confusion about what "fair use" entails -- it frees you from liability if you do certain things that might otherwise constitute infringement, but it doesn't create any responsibility for the copyright holder to enable you to do anything.
Should I follow the new American dream and start suing the moment I enter the US for the fact that the MPAA is either taking away my rights, or forcing me into a DMCA crime?
RenHoek, I think you'll fit in well in our country! Hopefully, someone will have a legal solution for you. If not, if I were in your position, I'd use a mod or whatever illegal circumvention you had in mind, on the principle that it's a violation of the letter but not the spirit of the law in this case. Despite the hysterical, paranoid ravings you read here, you won't be facing any "severe penalties" if you're a user, not a mod reseller or a large-scale pirate.
Besides, now that you're in a relationship, you won't be watching your beloved collection much anyway. Brace yourself for a lot of Meg Ryan, Julia Roberts and *gag* Hugh Grant.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
If you're lucky enough to find one of the original run of this Apex player, you can disable region coding altogether. Mine plays every R1 and R2 disc I've tossed into it.
My understanding is that having a region-free player is only half the battle... an R2 disc in PAL format won't play back on a region-free NTSC machine, but this Apex automatically senses and converts between the two formats. My one R2 PAL disc (Citizen Kane) plays fine on my NTSC television (and I would assume the reverse holds true as well) so you wouldn't have to jettison your current collection.
Quality-wise, the machine looks a little cheesy, but the picture is great, it has component video and DTS/SPDIF audio out, and all the features you could want. Best of all, it uses a standard IDE DVD-ROM drive, so all the moving parts that are likely to go bad can be replaced on the cheap.
You can also turn off Macrovision via the secret menu, but I've yet to feel the urge to make a VHS copy of any of my DVDs.
I don't experience any problems when playing off these NTSC-DVDs, so I guess the player has some sort of built in conversion-system.
My understanding is (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) but the actual image data on a DVD is system independent. Nothing is encoded on the DVD as NTSC or PAL or SECAM. Its the player itself that takes the MPEG stream and converts it to the appropriate signal, thus the reason for region encoding in the first place. Back with VCRs the movie studios had market seperation because the "data" on a tape is tied to the system its recorded in. This all goes away with DVDs (and is IMO one of its strengths) but, of course, removed the barriers between each of the TV systems. Region encoding is a way of artifically keeping those barriers up.
I feel the orig poster's pain. I'm heading back from the UK tomorrow and I've purchased a few Region 2 DVDs that you cannot get in Region 1 versions (Billy Conelly vids). The new iBook's DVD-ROM drive gets a firmware update when I get home to make it region free.
The site vcdhelp.com is a good site that lists just about every dvd player with it's ability to play stuff from different regions. Just about every player has a "region hack" that allows a different region to be selected.
Lets admit it. Most of your PC is Region 3. Some of it may be made by cheap labor in Region 6, and the sand might come from Region 1 or 5. But region 2? I dunno..
Break it. Buy a chipped player.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Technically speaking it's not "PAL", but it is 720x576 at 25 frames per second rather than 720x480 at 29.976 frames per second. Depending on the player, it may or may not be able to output PAL-ish data as NTSC. If not, he can just bring his TV with him or look around for a multi-system set (or just use his computer).
Chu vi parolas Vikipedion?
Get a computer DVD drive made before Jan 1, 2000. You'll have to get it used, of course, but I got mine from a Dell Optiplex PII-450. The key thing here is that it must be RPC-1.
Then, install Linux on the computer with the drive, and use XINE or XMPS or any other fine DVD playing software, none of which care about region codes. Just plug and play! You can even get a video card with TV out and watch it on your normal movie viewing device.
Actually, most pr0n is region 0 so it will play anywhere. Pr0n publishers aren't stupid enough to artificially limit their market!
However, I also recently bought a local DVD player because of all the local DVDs I've wanted to buy or rent, but couldn't see because they were not only region-2 encoded, but because they are in PAL format and my DVD/LP player is NTSC-only.
My advice would be to do the same in reverse for your situation -- buy a DVD player in the Netherlands or the UK that can either accept a region mod or is already region switchable. Make sure that it can output both NTSC and PAL format, because TVs in the US are NTSC-only. If you can't get a European DVD player that can output both NTSC and PAL, then you'll need to get a European TV that can handle both NTSC and PAL input that you take with you (with any luck, your existing TV will be able to handle both NTSC and PAL input).
Just keep in mind that you'll probably need a 240VAC@50Hz/120VAC@60Hz voltage/frequency converter to handle any European video equipment that you bring over with you. Make sure you get a high-quality model, not one that does only the voltage side and skips the the frequency conversion part, because that will be likely to fry your sensitive eletronic equipment. I've found good ones over here in Belgium (they tend to work both ways), but they are hard to find and expensive.
Brad Knowles
http://daily.daemonnews.org/ -- if you're not
I got a DVD player for christmas, and of course picked one that made changing the regions very easy. So far, I highly recomend the Daewoo 9000n. Dolby 5.1 decoding on board, progressive scan composite out, digital audio out, and user upgradable firmware. The one thing I havn't tested is PAL on NTSC, and havn't heard any reports for or against. For $150 on amazon, it's the best deal around as far as I'm concerned. Once you get over the legal issues involved, head ove to http://www.nerd-out.com/forum/ for all the information on picking out a DVD player and how to upgrade it.
Visit 220giftcenter for code-free dvd players. Grab a transformer and you can even bring over your old player. You'd be mad to bring a TV to the states, they're huge! Get a TV that supports PAL (so you can play it with your old DVDs/Player) as well as NTSC (for your new DVDs/Player). Try here I have a similar dilemma. But mine is what to do with my NTSC/US region DVDs when I go back to New Zealand!
Of course, you could just sell your DVD collection and not replace it. I bet you haven't watched most of your titles for quite a while -- many probably haven't been in the deck more than once.
It's too late for my preferred solution -- don't get tangled up in DVD crap at all. Temped as I have been, I still don't have a DVD player (despite being given two DVDs as a gift about a year ago). I might finally cave in and get a PS2 when Wipout Fusion finally makes it to Australian shores.
As far as I can tell, Malata is the king of codefree DVD players. The N996 is completely region-free, is progressive scan, has a built-in PAL-NTSC converter (and vice-versa), built in Dolby Digital decoder, and is tweakable beyond belief. On the other hand, I recently bought a Philips 712 that is remotely hackable (like the legendary Apex) for $179, and am quite happy with it. Check out www.dvd.reviewer.co.uk for lots of good info.
Most DVD players are NTSC/PAL/SECAM agnostic- If the region coding allows the disk to be played, the player dumps the signal out to your TV using whatever format it is encoded in.
IOW, if you have a 'no region' DVD disk with PAL content, it still won't play on the average North American NTSC television.
Playing a DVD under MS-Windows to a VGA monitor ignores the encoding, and some DVD decoder cards for PC's (e.g. DXR2 or Hollywood+/DXR3) will convert the signal between PAL and NTSC before output to your TV.
http://www.techtronics.com/uk/shop/87-00-video-sta ndards-ntsc-pal.html
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Because the USA is a cultural behemoth, Europe has an ample supply of players and televisions with the ability to decode and display NTSC disks with reasonable accuracy.
In the USA, there are very few means to play your PAL-encoded disks without distorted colors and other artifacts. The converter devices and the few PAL capable TVs sold for US use are both found in only two grades: cheaply made models with poor quality, or very expensive.
The best solution might be to check availability of American (NTSC/Region 1versions) of movies at good prices in the USA, and sell off the easily replaceble disks before you leave the Netherlands.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
It's now region free, and the hack had the added the benefit of removing macrovision. Not bad.
The player plays pretty much anything (DVD, VCD, SVCD, MP3, CDR/RW), and also does NTSC/PAL conversion. Not bad for a unit I picked up for $80 US.
You wrote: Most DVD players are NTSC/PAL/SECAM agnostic-
Isn't that pretty much what I said?
Nothing is encoded on the DVD as NTSC or PAL or SECAM.
Good point - I'd forgotten about that part. I got my Toshiba DVDROMs just as the RPC-2 drives were coming out.
However, the DVDROM in my new Toshiba laptop (August 2001), also works fine with DVDGenie, and I think the Creative one I got a little while ago works OK too (it's in a PC I don't use to watch DVDs much).
There are several sites around that collect data about which drives are RPC-1/RPC-2, this is one.
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
Isn't that pretty much what I said?
Yes and no. The DVD player just takes the signal on the disk and dumps it out to your TV, projector, etc. Generally the player doesn't care if the signal on the disk is PAL, SECAM, or NTSC.
Wrong. My research and experience confirms that the disk itself is encoded as NTSC, PAL, etc.That is to say, I live in the USA, and I personally have a copy of ' South Park: vol 4 ', as released in Region 2. This disk is clearly labeled as 'PAL'.
I can play this disk in a 'region free' Apex player on my NTSC television, and it works fine because the Apex internally does the conversion from PAL to NTSC.
A friend of mine has another brand of 'region free' DVD player, and while the player plays the disk, his TV displays a severely distorted picture.
In other words:
DISKS CONTAIN PAL CONTENT, OR NTSC CONTENT, OR BOTH. A PAL DISK WILL NOT DISPLAY CORRECTLY ON A NTSC-ONLY AMERICAN TELEVISION SET.
I know this both from references and from personal experience. If you claim otherwise, prove me wrong.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Hmmm.. checked your links and stand corrected. But it does bring up some issues though:
Why have region encoding at all? If having different encoding systems was good enough to keep markets seperated with video tapes, then why not do the same thing with DVDs. Since the DVD consortium (sp) has the right to dictate what goes in a licencee's machine (and therefor give them the right to display the DVD logo) why not just mandate "DVD players sold in PAL countries can only show PAL DVDs, DVD players in NTSC countries can only show NTSC DVDs, etc." Granted, there will be those manufacturers who tell 'em to "get bent" and do it anyway, but they're the same manufacturers who are telling them to "get bent" by making region free VCRs.
Also, the FAQ mentioned that most NTSC DVD players don't have PAL converters, but all of mine have played region 2 PAL DVDs with no problem. Granted, a few DVD players does not a sample set make, but I've yet to find any problems.
Oh, also forgot:
DISKS CONTAIN PAL CONTENT, OR NTSC CONTENT, OR BOTH. A PAL DISK WILL NOT DISPLAY CORRECTLY ON A NTSC-ONLY AMERICAN TELEVISION SET.
Is there any way of checking what's on a DVD disc (in term of encoding)? I have some region 2 DVDs that I would think would be PAL only (frightfully british content, never sold here) that plays fine on my region 1 DVD/NTSC only TV.
Part of it might be lack of granuality- there are just three competing video formats in the world, but more than three regions:
Another issue is that DVD are different in that they usually offer both the original soundtrack and a local dub, where most tapes were only available with the local-language soundtrack. For example, many of my US DVDs have a Japanese or French soundtrack also). Both Japan and the USA use NTSC, but they are in different regions, and Japanese releases of US movies are delayed by six months.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
Some RPC-2 drives can be converted into RPC-1 ones by changing their firmware -- for example, BDV212B, that I have seen being sold for $59. And free software players -- say, Ogle that I use now, don't care about those things.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.