Advice for Older Entry-Level Programers?

jmorse asks: "My uncle recently shut down his manufacturing business and is considering entering the job market as an entry level programmer. He's done a lot of ad-hoc programming in several languages to fulfill his business' needs, but has never held a job as a programmer or software engineer. I know it's a tough time to be looking for a programming job, especially when there are so many unemployed younger people who would gladly put in long hours. What advice do slashdotters have for an older guy just getting started?"

Comments

All depends how you paint it.

[WasterDave]

CV's, job applications, it's all a question of marketing. Like all marketing you have to paint a picture. By saying that your uncle has shut down his manufacturing business and is now looking to work as a programmer... but I've not held a job in it before... but I've not had any formal training. See, it doesn't sound good.

Your uncle has some VAST advantages over a new graduate. New grads, entry level programmers: You're not going to like this so block your ears. For one he has real world experience in how businesses work, how financing a business (particularly cashflows) work, of dealing with customers, of what deadlines mean and the fact that they are important. These are hugely rare skills in the software engineering world and he would do well to bring them to the fore when talking to potential employers.

From a purely programming perspective you also have to remember that even if his projects were small and ad hoc, they: Shipped; Fulfilled the business requirements; Were on budget and on time. Again, all three of these are actually very rare. All three at once is virtually unheard of.

He's in a very good position, but I wouldn't be going for a coding job. Personally, I'd like to see him paint himself as a project lead or business analyst. If he approaches some outsourcing companies offering to be an interface between their clients and the coding teams, leveraging his real world (non IT industry) experience to his advantage, they'd be hard pressed to turn him down.

Dave

Long-term retention in IT?

[extra88]

They generally want someone they hope to retain for a long time, and dont have to start paying retirement benefits within a small number of years.

I think "a long time" to keep an IT person is maybe five years. And if they really would like to hire someone who's more likely to stay longer, they'd be smart to hire the older guy. I guy in his early to mid-twenties is less likely to stick around. I doubt this uncle is in his late fifties or sixties so he's still got a ways to go before retirement. He's more likely to have a mortage and dependent children so stability and security will be more important to him.

As for a company paying "retirement benefits," it sounds like you're talking about a pension. I think 401k programs are more the norm for this kind of work in which the company's contribution (if there is any) ends with the employee's employment with them.

Reasons companies want to hire young people:

• They're more trainable, both in terms of actual tasks and fitting into a company's culture
  
• They work harder for less money
  
• They grew up with the technology so they have more inate talent for the work
  
• Managers don't want to hire people older than they are
  

These are just my guesses and these just stereotypes of the young and old.

There are other skills besides # of languages

[dmorin]

Older candidates bring a number of excellent skills to an interview, even if their tech might not be the latest and greatest:

• maturity
• seniority, leadership
• variety of experience
• strong work ethic

This guy has his own business? Great, then he probably understands budgets, deadlines, resource management, and all kinds of other good stuff that any manager wishes his employees understood. He won't necessarily be *doing* those things when he wants an entry level spot, but he can appreciate what it means when his boss says "I understand that you want to do it this way, but you tell me that will take 8 weeks and I only have budget for 3 weeks, so do it the other way." Many of the hotshot young programmers who don't grok business will often shoot back "Then just change the budget" or something equally clueless. The experienced ones will say "You got it, boss" and make it happen in 3 weeks.

Remember too, those young kids that will put in the long hours are also the ones that will leave your company in a heartbeat the day someone else comes along and promises to make them rich on stock options. The old timers are often the ones who remember what it's like to have loyalty to their career and the people around them, and not always the quick buck. Managers would kill for that.