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Highspeed Downloads Via DTV
NYCadAdept writes " E-insight reports that Clear Channel Communications has begun to provide high speed downloads in Cincinnati, via the broadcast DTV signal of WKRC-TV. You have to use proprietary hardware/software; and you still need a modem for up-stream communications, but it is an interesting alternative for those beyond the reach of xDSL."I don't want to sound rigid, but these frequencies were given in exchange for the analog ones, so I don't see how they can do this without breaking thier agreement with the FCC.
SkyStream already provides "Internet delivery over DTV", in their own words. DTV Internet is spreading slowly but surely, VisionConsult is looking into Internet@Digital.TV. In Europe, Internet over digital TV set-top boxes where available as early as 1990 according to Re:Think (see the section entitled "Case Study: Digital TV Set-Top Boxes).
What do you think of MusicCity now?
Easy. The FCC gave them 6mhz worth of spectrum, good for ~19Mbps. The broadcasters have to use some portion of that for no-cost television, but they don't have to use all of it. WRAL in Raleigh uses a portion for an all-news sub-channel, and another chunk for PC data services.
For anyone seriously interested in the technical and official aspects of DTV, either for Internet or video, be sure to check out the FCC's Digital Television: MM Docket No. 87-268 page. The FCC is reallocating TV channels 52-59 (687-746MHz) for digital broadcasting, perhaps even Clear Channel's Internet will be used on that part of the spectrum. Evidently, Clear Channel wants to convert all analog broadcasts to digital, but 687-746MHz will act as a sort of test bed.
What do you think of MusicCity now?
I live in Cincinnati for one. This is being marketed to people who cannot currently get cable internet or DSL.
/. post I can't find one now. No.. I found the FAQ. From there you can surf through the other parts of the site to find more.
They are holding beta testing now, although I've tried to 'refind' the website before for another
They've advertised this as a new way to get broadband in area's where there is none and claim download speeds of 250K, which would make me sign up for $39.95 a month.
The target here around Cincinnati would be the homes that aren't even close to the city but carry the WKRC station [Channel 12, "The new Generation of News!"-which is the same old people.]. This is a huge untapped market in plenty of area around Cincinnati.
As I've said earlier there will be many implementations of 'last mile' solutions. This may actually take off.
Considering Clear Channel 0wns this town's airwaves [thus politics and more!] I expect this service to take off somewhat. It isn't ideal anywhere but beats the similar 'Dish' technology.
Here is a PDF from 12/18/01 about the service... although it's been on TV for almost a year.
Sometimes we here in the 'Nati get things faster. We had HBO-On Demand first, and our Cincinnati Bell was featured as the first to offer 'Internet Call Manager' services. We were putting in Digital [two way] cable years before anyone had Cable Modems [about the time Time Warner bought out both cable services] and DSL was here pretty quick.
Maybe Mark Twain was wrong when he said: "When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Cincinnati because it's always twenty years behind the times."
Get your Unix fortune now!
This is probably a DOCSIS variant. You can look
into the DOCSIS specs at:
http://www.cablemodem.com/specifications.html
if you are interested. Basically DOCSIS is the
Data over Cable System Interface Specification.
It's how your cable modem works.
DOCSIS puts your downstream data inside MPEG
frames on a normal 6Mhz television channel.
For cable modem normaly this is the only digital
data on the downstream channel and so the MPEG
framing is largely irrelavent. I'm pretty
sure that your standard digital TV signal is
exactly the same as your DOCSIS signal up until
we get into the contents of the MPEG frame
( which probably is MPEG for digital TV ). Since
You can get about 28Mb/s in a QAM-64 carrier and
compressed HDTV only takes about 19Mb/s, I'd
say this is a creative use of the leftover
bandwidth.
As to the phone dial back... getting a return
signal even over cable is trickier, over
air it is likely to be downright prohibitive
( can you image how much power you would need
to broadcast from your home to get back to the
station? ). Because not all cable providers
originally had cable plants that could provide for
upstream channels, the DOCSIS spec already lays
out neatly specifications for providing for
a dial return path.
I'll almost bet this is what they are doing in
Cincinnati. Doing anything to different would
just make their equipment at their headends
really expensive for no good reason.
The downstream channel would have to be multiplexed among all simultaneous users of the service, which means they can support roughly 30Mbps total modulated bit rate of the channel/256Kbps per user ~ 120 users...Even if we assume a 10x gain due to statistical packet multiplexing, that is still only 1000 users max. I wonder how they plan to deal with congestion... -rkgmd
That's a bad quote. Approximately 100 lines are used for timing information and retracing. Go ask anybody who knows anything about how a TV works if they'd like to do away with their horizontal and vertical sync pulses. Plus, your math is wrong. The refresh rate is 60Hz, not 60MHz. No way you'd be able to do this. Now, it is definitely possible to insert some information in the VBI (vertical blanking interval), but that's normally used by networks to send timing information to affiliate. Ever look at the top of an ABC network signal straight off the satellite? It's loaded with white blips.
FC Closer
I'm actually using the service. I got on as a beta tester for the service. Unfortunately, I can't get anything less than Satellite (at least until the phone company get's off their duffs and installs a dslam in the mini C.O. about a mile away). Here's the skinny from a user's perspective.
First and foremost, it beats 56k (53K) downstream, even though I can't get much higher than 256Kb right now (using the indoor antenna that came with the kit).
The price is, IMHO, a bit steep ($40.00) based on the fact that you still need an ISP, and also an additional analog line (unless you don't like to talk to people). To the people in the area that can't get Cable or DSL, that equates to about (ouch) another $45.00 on top ($15.00 if you don't like talking to people). However, if you were up watching WKRC at 3am (the only time I saw a call for beta testers), you could have gotten in on the beta tester price (which I did), and that made it reasonable.
The upside is that it doesn't require you to drop about $200.00+ on satellite equip, and doesn't seem to have rain fade problems.
The technology itself is actually a no brainer (the spectrum's already there, why not use it), but the interface app leaves a bit to be desired.
This service is also only good for surfing, and maybe some peer to peer swap services (if people don't mind the fact that you can only push 33.k up to them). Net games won't get it based on the diff in speed up/down.
They are basically creating a tunneled connection once you connect to your ISP, so they can add the appropriate re-direct info to the packet.
Bigger on the downside: they currently won't allow the connection to be shared, and it only works on a Win98SE install, WinMe, or Win2KPro. The interface app (that controls the DTV card, etc.) is pretty weak at this point(read: BSOD on occasion), but they are currently upgrading both the H/W and Software, and I haven't had time to schedule it.
But, overall, at the beta user price, it's a good alternative to 56k. Will I chuck it out the window the minute the phone company gets a dslam close enough to me to go DSL? You bet.
In Hungary, of all places.
I'm pretty sure it was over three or four years ago - however, they did this with analog signals and not with DSS.
They used a modem connection for upstream, and some clumsy hardware that you plugged between your satellite receiver and the dish for downstream.
It never took off - initial costs were too high, and once they started getting more subscribers the "huge" bandwidth just disappeared as it got divided further and further amongst users.
Now everyone & their sister is on ISDN, ADSL & cable, and the situation's not a whole lot better. Between 6-12 PM all the backbones are fully loaded. Well, that's what you get when they start giving away ADSL for $20 per month.
The broadcasters' agreement is not with the FCC, but with Congress.
The broadcasters agreed to provide favorable coverage to incumbent members of congress. In return, and Congress agreed to give them, free of charge, vast swaths of spectrum worth billions and billions of dollars. The broadcasters would theoretically have to give back the old spectrum they currently use (and also never paid for), but the prerequisites for the spectrum giveback will not be met. (Surprise, surprise!)
Of course, now that the broadcasters and Congress have robbed the taxpayers once, they want to do it again by letting them sell their old spectrum (remember, they didn't pay for that spectrum either). Also, now that the 'Free over-the-air HDTV' cover story has done its job, it can be quietly dropped, and pesky restrictions on the broadcaster's valuable new property are no longer needed. Pretty soon, we'll see that the broadcasters own both the new and old spectrum outright, with no restrictions on use or resale.
It goes without saying that the broadcasters won't pay the government one red cent for the spectrum, since they hold a currency even more valuable in Washington: control of media exposure.
...and being under NDA, I'll try to inform as to what any beta tester can figure out on their own.
1. This is not a competitor to Cable/DSL, both are obviously better. This is targetted to those in the "sticks", outside of Cable/DSL range.
2. Yes, it will use some bandwidth of the DTV signal. Yes, that means that the full-res version of DTV won't be available. But when Cable/DSL expands, it will eliminate this market, leaving the DTV bandwidth ready to be converted back.
3. At the ClearChannel booth at NAB, this was advertised to broadcasters as a way to "help fund your DTV transition." Broadcasters are also wary of converting to DTV, because no one is watching it. (And no one is watching because no one is broadcasting...etc)
4. For security, IPSEC is used. Make your own judgements.
5. Yes, the modem uplink is slow. No, it is not intended for gamers to get great ping times. Yes, it is download-centric.
6. No, ClearChannel does not limit the usage (as of this writing). You can browse, read, download to your heart's content.
7. I don't know anything about pricing.
I'll try to answer more questions if I can. I can also be reached at: sykik(at)yahoo.com
My understanding is that the only requirement is that they provide one channel of no-charge video at no less than 4:3 480i mode. This would use a very small chunk of the spectrum available. Yes, it takes 6MHz of RF to do this in analog mode (480i 4:3 is the current standard) but the FCC is giving the new spectrum on a MHz per MHz basis, i.e. the digital stations get 6MHz to work with.
Also, I see this as being a terrestrial counterpart to DirecPC, which is DirecTV's inbound-only internet service. AFAIK, it is not all that well received, with cable, DSL and Starband collectively whooping DirecPC's ass.
I don't think it will work.
www.wavefront-av.com
Cue is in bankruptcy after losing their single biggest customer a few months ago (I understand it was a million dollar/month acct.). They were in default of their subcarrier leases on Clear Channel FM stations as of November and were disconnected in early December. They were given one more chance to pay and were turned back on a few days later. Alas, they couldn't come up with the $$ and were disconnected for the (final time) last week. I would say that as of right now, they're dead in the water....
and I am going to hack a box to allow me to download faster using it. What am I going to download? Pron, of course.