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Driver's Licenses to Become National ID Cards
XorNand writes: "Time is reporting that the Dept of Transportation, acting on instructions from Congress, is in the process of linking together states' drivers' license databases. They figure that it'll be cheaper and easier to slip under the radar of civil libertarians and privacy watchdogs. Wonder if Larry is a bit peeved that he's not getting his cut?"
It's already the standard photo ID. It makes sense for the feds to require standardization of state IDs, so that all states have to meet the same requirments. E.g., I've lived in NY for a few years, and my wife has an NY state license...but my 4-year-old Florida license is much higher tech (plastic, digital photo, holograms) than the low-tech laminated paper NY state licenses.
You already have to show your license or something similar when flying. The chances of fraud will be reduced if we have common standards for all state ID cards.
How incredibly easy it was for them to get fake drivers licenses, SS Numbers and Birth certificates. So now if you get a driver's license in California under a fake name, you can create a person that exsists in every single state. I don't see how this will help.
Nice thought.
Won't work for me here in OR, though.. Already don't drive. tried to explain to cop why no license (car == 2000 # steel + 15 gallons volitile liquid intention caused to combust in a contained fashion) and no ID card.. Told him it's not against the law.
they told me that THEY could arrest me if I didn't have an ID. I laughed at the time, until I found out it was true.
end of story.
Right now, driving is considered a "privilege" (If you ask me, it's pretty much a requirement nowadays), which makes it real easy for states to take away your driving "privileges" for accumulating too many points, etc... If this becomes a national ID card, what is going to happen to that "privilege" philosophy?
The neat thing is that you don't have to be a citizen to have a driver's license, and --as far as i know-- it's not even legal for them to ask for that information when you apply for one.
so as far as the government will be concerned, there's no difference between citizens and non-citizens in our new national id card system; the only difference will be drivers and non-drivers ("state id card" holders). that will surely fight off the foreign terrorists they're trying to protect us from.
"Mister Potato-head --MISTER POTATO-HEAD! Backdoors are not secrets!" (War Games, 1983)
- Decentralized database. States would be the only repository of the information associated with the DL. This as opposed to a large federal database (and at much added cost).
- Standardizing the info on the cards. This would include a photo id, signature, and a magbar for quick input into a computer. Instead of the mess in which some states don't have photo IDs, some require SSN, etc. This still leaves enough up to the states as to not trample their states' rights.
- Improved communication between databases. Because the system would be decentralized, there would need to be an easy way for government officials to request info from such DBs; because states would be required to at least store a minimum of information, it would be simple to define a query standard. This way, rules can be put in place that if information is requested without a warrent, only specific pieces could be sent. If the database was centralized, then this would be much harder to enforce.
The groups are not completely at ease; this plan would suddenly give several DMVs near-absolute power, and unless regulations are put in place, this might be abuse. They also do worry, as many have posted, that there are both legal and illegal reasons not to have a DL; those that legally lack one may be forced to get one despite not having to drive -- this may cause states to have to provide DLs with "No Driving" restrictions to be issued in general for those currently without one."Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
This is close to the truth, ut not completely accurate. Insurance information is horribly innacurate (hell they lose my children on a regular basis and have my daughter in twice with 2 different SS numbers. I also have a friend I met in college that has sucessfully created a persona that doesn't exist from simple social engineering over a few years... (Hey it's a hobby) His dog has a credit card, a ham radio technician class license, a legitimate (as in filed with the county) birth certificiate and he recently scored a Forign service record for his dog...
.... HAHAHAHAHAHAH)
As soon as the dog get's a drivers license with the dog's actual picture.... I'll be really impressed... but creating a fake persona and hiding your real identity is not that difficult to those that really want to and need to.
Oh and the credit reporting? that is the worst database in terms of accuracy I have ever seen. After recently cleaning my credit of 5, yes 5 incorrect and plain false reportings and findong out that the rate of incorrect and plain wrong reportings on individuals credit reports and even their criminal reports is horribly high. (my ex wife still has it showing outstanding arrest warrents in different databases, even though this happened 3 years ago it has all been settled and cleared up..... I feel sad for her that when pulled over by police outside her home area she has to carry a court paper stating that the warrent is invalid..... (sad as in
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Unifying the ID isn't really a big deal in and of itself. There's no danger to civil rights that people could more easily verify the validity of identification. The particular set of information they choose to standardize on is likely to be innocuous.
The danger of a national ID is in the way it is used. In particular, in the use of a magstrip or other machine-readable common format. Most states seem to have something like this -- Illinois has some sort of 2D bar code, for instance -- but because there's no standard you cannot reasonably expect to scan every person's card at some given point. So I've never seen anyplace where they actually use a machine to read the card.
If you have a national ID, then this would no longer be the case. It makes it very possible -- and likely inevitable -- that IDs will regularly be scanned in all sorts of locations. Courthouses, airports (whether or not you are flying), privately secured locations (office buildings, etc.)... and the next thing you know there's random road blocks (to catch drunk drivers, drug smugglers, terrorists, or whatever other justification they choose) and they'll scan your ID.
If these systems were one-way, even this wouldn't be too terribly bad. That is, if such scans only checked to see if there was an outstanding warrant or other legal restriction placed on you. However, this is unlikely to be the way these cards would be used by the government, and certainly not the way they'd be used by private security. It is all too easy to record every time you pass such a checkpoint, and in that way coming up with an extensive profile of every person's movement and associations.
Of course, much of this already exists with credit cards. And who knows... maybe they'll join them together.
Yeah, just what I want, to have to carry my passport around every time I have to step out the house.
It wouldn't be so bad if the INS actually got off its butt and issued my greencard. It's been over a year now, I had to go down to Memphis and waste a day getting my passport restamped back in November (and then, even though my wife had called up a couple of days before to find out where/what/how, the damn stamping office was closed so we had to make a fuss until we got it stamped).
It's no wonder that terrorists are wandering around on expired visas. I bet half the visas that are expired in this country are because the INS hasn't renewed them when they should. No wonder they aren't chasing expired ones, it would show up their incompetance.
Rich
In TN, it's optional. I opted in because back in the UK, I had to use my NI (Like SSN) number so infrequently that I could never remember it. I even actually wrote it on my (paper) driving licence (which doesn't have a photo by the way) so I would at least have it somewhere that I accessed frequently. But here, I have been called to use my SSN so often that within 2-3 months, it has been burned permanently into my brain.
Wake up people, you already have a national ID system, now the government is just looking to consolidate it.
"Land of the Free". Beginning to sound a bit hollow these days.
Rich
Having had a few deep breaths and calmed down a bit, I'd like to add that despite 30 years of terrorist attacks (sponsored by US citizens), the UK hasn't seen it necessary to introduce ID cards.
In fact the only time there was a widespread to detain possible terrorists was the internment in the 1970's, which cause so much hatred of the UK government, that it recruited a whole new generation of terrorists for the Republican cause.
To prevent terrorists striking against you, a country has three options:
1) Stop the terrorists hating you so much that they will risk their lives or commit suicide to hurt you.
2) Have focussed intelligence agencies that can actually gather and act on intelligence data, rather than destabilising other countries.
3)Kill _everyone_ who might not like you.
The US is having a good go at number 3 (3,800 civilians so far and counting), but in the long run methods one and two are cheaper in dollars, lives lost and liberties given up in the name of freedom.
"Free software as in beer, copy protection as in racket" - Telsa Gwynne
Welcome to America, where you're innocent of a crime until proven guilty, but all I have to do is say you owe me money and the burden of proof is on you to prove you don't and get it erased from your credit report.
DO NOT DISTURB THE SE
Here is a discussion of smart card security by cryptographer & computer security expert Bruce Schneier. It's pretty hard reading, but the main point is that, by depending on an external keypad and display, the smart cards allow a lot of new security breaks. For example, a hacked ATM terminal may steal your PIN and also divert the money -- the screen says your deposit is going to your account, but actually it's going to the somewhere in Belize, from which it will be untraceably transferred before you find out you've been robbed.
Bruce didn't consider putting a fingerprint sensor in the card itself. That will rule out some breaks -- neither stealing the PIN by "wiretapping" (and European PIN keypads have some protection against that), nor stealing the card and beating the PIN out of you will get someone into your accounts. But other vulnerabilities still remain. If you build the keys and display into the card itself, you may be quite a lot more secure -- especially if the card does good enough encryption internally and talks directly to the server, which is the only thing outside of the card which knows the key.
But then you've got the case of the Saudi terrorist (say) with a German ID (say), at a traffic stop in Maryland. Will the police car be carrying equipment that can query a database in Germany? Will results come back in a reasonable time? And even if they do, why would a German database show that the FBI wants this guy?
There is also the big issue of how identity is confirmed when someone is first entered into the system. Anyone with my birth certificate and social security number could get an ID in my name, and the SSN is in all sorts of records while you don't have to prove identity to get the birth certificate. If I'm alive and in the system, it should notice the duplication, but there are plenty of dead people to choose from. Internationally, there are many nations where records got blown up or never were complete, so you've pretty much got to take people's word about their identity.
Also, driving is actually a right, not a privilege, upheld by the US Supreme Court and other courts numerous times. They are still free to regulate driving however, including requiring a license to drive. It just means that they can't arbitrarily revoke your license for no reason. Similarly, your right to vote or own a firearm can't normally be revoked, but can if you commit a felony.
Here's a good explanation of the right to drive: