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Black Holes and Hidden Dimensions

Slackware Geek writes "It is being reported in the Nature Science Update that a new observitory being built in Argentina to study cosmic rays could detect extra hidden dimensions if they exist. 'Cosmic rays could find holes in Standard Model of particle physics ...If the Universe contains invisible, extra dimensions, then cosmic rays that hit the atmosphere will produce tiny black holes. These black holes should be numerous enough for the observatory to detect.'"

2 of 200 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Random thought: no dimensions, no space by Bryan+K.+Feir · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And every particle DOES have "simultaneous exact position and momentum," it's just that we aren't capable of determining both through observation. We can determine one or the other.

    No, not exactly, though this is a common misconception.

    Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle has nothing to do with the act of observation. The actual uncertainty is fundamental to the quantum model. It's not that you can't measure both the position and the momentum at the same time, it's more that the particle's wave aspect cannot be constrained by both 'measurements' at the same time. Think of the particle like a water balloon on the position/momentum graph: if you compress it in one direction (measuring position) it spills out in the other (uncertain momentum).

    The fun part is that you can actually use the uncertainty principle to make more accurate measurements. An experiment that was done years ago in Australia proved this. The idea is that a photon travelling here from a distant star has a very narrowly defined transverse momentum: it's heading almost directly towards us, so the uncertainty in its side-to-side momentum is directly related to how much space it takes up in the sky. (Since that defines the range of angles the photon could arrive from.) Since the transverse momentum is highly constrained, the transverse position must be highly spread out. So in theory the photon could be seen as a paper-thin pancake several miles across.

    Now, from the standard double-slit experiments, you get an interference pattern as long as there is a possibility of the photon 'hitting' both slits at the same time. In this experiment, the slits were replaced with radio telescopes on train cars, on a long straight section of track. (Hence why this was done in the Australian outback.) So long as the telescopes are closer together than the uncertainty in the photon's position, you get an interference pattern. Once they're further apart than that, you revert to two seperate streams of photons.

    So, you slowly move the telescopes apart, watching the star, until the interference pattern disappears. Presto, you have the 'size' of the photon, which gives the uncertainty of its transverse position. Back-calculating throug Heisenberg's inequality gives you a limit on its transverse momentum. And that gives you a good idea of the 'size' of the star in the sky, in fractions of an arc second.

    This has been done, and gave answers that agreed with other observations of the stars. So the Uncertaintly Principle has, in this case, improved the accuracy of measurements.

    And demonstrated that the HUP is a lot more fundamental than what you said. Particles simply do NOT have "simultaneous exact position and momentum."

    -- Bryan Feir

  2. More info on the Observatory by barawn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Oh my God, I'm amazed - this is the observatory I actually WORK for, and it's on SLASHDOT, my God.

    Forgive me for going completely crazy replying to everyone, but this is just too cool.

    OK, so long as people promise not to Slashdot the server (heh, that was dumb) for anyone who wants more information, go to the main Auger website, or for even cooler information, go to the Auger site in Argentina.

    Auger is actually a very interesting project, and it's not like anything you'd ever think of - it's a 1600 km^2 array of water Cerenkov detectors (10 cubic meters of water) spaced 1.5 km apart - the picture in the article is of the flourescence detector, which is more like what you think of for a standard detector, but due to the limitations of the flourescence method of detecting cosmic rays, its duty time is only 10%, as opposed to the 100% of the surface array.

    The project is proceeding along... pretty well. We've basically finished the Engineering Array, a small-scale testbed to find all of the design flaws in the initial project (and boy, did we find them) and we've detected some cosmic rays which we believe to be ~10^19 eV. We've also demonstrated the hybrid design as well (events where the flourescence detector triggers as well as the surface detector).

    The black hole stuff isn't the important goal of the project - the goal is to elucidate the spectrum of cosmic rays above 10^20 eV, because we have no idea where those particles come from - all of basic physics says they can't exist. This is one of the big questions in astrophysics in recent years, up there with gamma ray bursts and odd quantum states of matter.

    It's way cool. And not just because I work on it...