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Security Flaws May Be Microsoft's Undoing

tarpitt writes: "According to this article in the LA Times, repeated software flaws in Microsoft products has begun to raise concerns that they 'threaten the stability of a major piece of the world economy and to raise questions about Microsoft's future.' Flawed security is seen as a stumbling block to accepting Microsoft sponsored on-line services. It is also driving discussion about making software manufacturers liable for damages caused by flawed products." This piece in eWeek on troubles with XP's automatic updates is an interesting companion; releasing often doesn't seem to be enough. Update: 01/15 15:00 GMT by J : Bruce Schneier's January Crypto-Gram came out this morning, and is also topical: "Microsoft treats security vulnerabilities as public relations problems. Until that changes, expect more of this kind of nonsense..."

12 of 505 comments (clear)

  1. They're no worse than the average... by Zspdude · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just a thought... If they dominate the market... Most software is Microsoft... Microsoft software is buggy and insecure.... Most software is buggy and insecure! They're right on par for the course!

    --
    What's in a Sig?
  2. Windows Update Down Again ? by Maserati · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Gee, since WU is a big feature of XP (even if MS is still breaking things with new patches) d'you think consumers have an action claim if WU fails to get them a known patch ? Lost data due to a known error could leave MS liable in today's lawsuit-happy world.


    Add in a Gartner analyst casting doubts on MS and raising the trust issue in terms of .NET, and you have some long-term sales issues for Microsoft. The analyst said that if you don't trust Microsoft, you don't use .NET. Then the article reminds us that MS is betting the company on .NET.


    A failure to execute (on security) could get Microsoft executed.

    --
    Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1992-1951
  3. Liability. by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The article mentioned a shift in political attitude: lawmakers are considering suspending the protection against liabilty that software makers now enjoy.

    Insofar as it's true that software is flakier and more vulnerable than other products, the questions we might ask are the extent to which liabiliy has motivated other product manufacturers to be a lot more careful in their manufacturing processes, and the extent to which software is "inherently" impossible to get right. Is that perception that software should be exempt from the sort of standards that other goods have accurate, or has that perception been constructed by years of poor software and a lack of accountability?

  4. Product liability by stjobe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A blue-ribbon panel of technology experts assembled by the National Academy of Sciences said lawmakers should consider ending Microsoft's and other software companies' special protection from product liability lawsuits, which have long forced makers of cars, medical devices and just about everything else to pay closer attention to the safety of their wares.

    Interesting, but in the case of free software, what would this mean for the developers? We all want Microsoft to be held responsible in some way for their security holes and such, but would we want to be treated the same way ourselves? What would happen when an author of a piece of free software was dragged to court because the software was buggy? And what would happen if it was Microsoft who did the dragging?

    --
    "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
  5. Not evident so far... by dimator · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Has shoddy security caused Microsoft any grief so far? A month after a hole is found, they fix it, and no one seems to care after that. Sure, people that don't like Microsoft remember it and add it to their encyclopedia of Microsoft holes to whine about, but people that like Microsoft fix it and go on with life. Who do they place the blame on? The "evil hacker", not the poor software.

    People are so accepting of insecurity that they are even willing to spend cash money on antivirus suite after antivirus suite every year. It's just become a part of the cost of owning a PC.

    --
    python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
  6. Free software is safe - how about shareware? by Shenyang · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hard to establish liability for free software. But shareware authors who charge a small fee (and hence make a direct profit) might be easier to target should this liability idea take hold. Shareware would become enough of a liability for small-time authors that they would be forced to either give up and find a publisher with deep pockets, or else give up revenue all together and just give their software away for free. Perhaps a threshold could be established to determine when liability kicks in?

    --
    Why aren't we told when an Editor moderates our posts?
  7. Go ahead and take the lead by Dr.+Tom · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Next time you release a software product, delete that "NO WARRANTY" clause from the license. State that you will fix any bugs that are found for one full year from when the user downloaded the program. You may even be confident enough of your code to offer a money-back guarantee (if it's shareware, for example). See how adding lines like that to your tarball affects how you code and debug.

    Dare Microsoft to even think about this. Their worst fear is a world where people choose software based on quality.

    Seriously, we don't need to whine about what some legislators are doing about the big bad wolf's coding practices. What we need to do is start setting the example. Say "I write good code!" and stand behind those words. Somebody who knows how should create a version of the GPL that includes appropriate warrantees for Free Software. The "Quality GPL" (GQL?). You don't have to use it, if you think your code is buggy or is a development version. Right now we just click on "Stable Branch" and that sends a message to those in the know, but how much better if you go visit a software repository and find piles of code that are stamped with a license that guarantees that the product is free from defects in workmanship (modifying the source code voids the original warranty, of course, and people who re-release modified code are under obligation to change the license to reflect that).

    We want people to get the idea that software that claims to be stable yet comes with the phrase "NO WARRANTY" is probably a steaming turd. Especially if they paid good money for it.

    Naturally, you can't predict how some people will use your product. "No, sir, the VCR does not function under water." Your code might not work on an SGI, either, if you developed it under HPUX. Using the product in a manner not intended will void the warranty. Sometimes it's not a bug, it really is a feature (or the lack of one). But if somebody finds a bug, you WILL fix it, won't you? Why not put that in writing? Even offer a monetary reward to the first finder (how about $2.56?) of every bug.

    Note that agreeing to fix bugs, or claiming that your product is bug free, is completely different from assuming liability if the user uses your program to kill himself. That's a completely different story.

  8. Conspiracy theory! by BlueUnderwear · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The only one I can think of is Microsoft. This wouldn't be their undoing, it'd only make them stronger.

    So, it is actually in their best interest to do shitty software, in order to prompt lawmakers for such a change in law. Once the law is passed, they clean up their act, and watch with glee as OSS developers get sued into oblivion by liability lawyers...

    Such law should have a provision that it only applies to commercial software (i.e. software that is sold for a price, or on the base of signed license contracts). Free (as in speech) software should be excluded from such liability. Free (as in beer) software would still be covered, by considering it as promotional material to sell commercial software (i.e. give away Internet Explorter to sell Windows).

    --
    Say no to software patents.
  9. YAMA by krmt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Yet Another Microsoft Apologist

    What about Apple? Are we forgetting the fact that the original Mac was relatively secure for over a decade, despite granting full root access to whoever? Yes, there were virii and trojans and whatnot (can't really be prevented) but the design of the system prevented a lot of problems for the average user. These are the same average users who are going to be affected by the XP problems, not UNIX admins.

    MS-DOS and its descendants were around for even longer than the Mac, and the NT system is very mature. Why can't they match Apple's security?

    I'm sick of MS apologists. Microsoft makes shit. It's shit that's getting better, but it's still shit. Don't whine and say it's unfair. They have the money, the power, and the resources to make what is far and away the best software in the world. And yet we get articles like this, and we get people like you whining about how MS is being treated unfairly. Forget it.

    As the market leaders who the majority of the world depend on for their computing needs they deserve heavy criticism.
    As predatory monopolists they deserve heavy criticism.
    As people who promise security they deserve heavy criticism.
    As people who would like nothing better than to see Windows everywhere, and the GPL and Linux and Apache and SAMBA wiped off the planet they deserve heavy criticism.

    So fuck whining about how MS is treated unfairly. If we complain enough then maybe they'll listen for a change.

    --

    "I may not have morals, but I have standards."

  10. How's this for a destructive payload? by Frank+Sullivan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On most modern PCs, the BIOS is flashable. The control chips on the IDE drives are flashable. The CPU has flashable instructions. These are all there to deliver upgrades in case of a bug.

    Now, imagine a virus that destroys the IDE control chips on each drive (no accessing the data again, short of mechanically removing the platters), destroys the BIOS (no booting again short of physical replacement of the BIOS chip), and destroys the CPU (instructions are broken, starting with the ability to update the instructions).

    Cross this with Warhol propogation techniques. While you're at it, delay the payload long enough to maximize propogation rates, but not long enough to allow antiviral reaction.

    This could lead to *hardware kill rates* on the order of 10%-50% (or more) of the computers on the Internet. None of those computers would ever work again, and data stored on them could not be easily recovered.

    All of this is doable from publicly documented information, crossed with the Microsoft wormhole-of-the-week.

    Are you frightened? I am.

    --
    Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
  11. Re:Liability -- extending the concept by Reziac · · Score: 3, Interesting
    This is an outstanding concept -- it would allow both free and commercial software to pick the standard they intend to adhere to, and be liable in proprotion to the degree that they claim to meet a certain standard of performance (including stability, fitness for purpose, whatever).

    As to whether it actually meets said standard -- yes, it would be good to have an independent testing team, but who's going to fund it? Do you only get to have a rating if you can afford to help support the test process?

    That being the case -- I'd suggest a twofold system: a rating the software author agrees to meet, and a number assigned by independent review when that is available. So if I claim a 3 rating but actually manage a 4, I get a 4/3 rating. Consumers have caught onto similar systems quickly in the past (such as gas mileage ratings on new vehicles).

    To extend the idea another step, the penalties for failing to meet said standard should also be set on the same scale, so there will be no question how heavily any breach of performance standards will be penalized. Frex, if you claim to produce grade 5 software, but it's actually only grade 4, you get one increment worth of penalty. If you claimed grade 4 but it was really grade 1, you get 3 increments worth of penalty. And so on. That way someone who tries but didn't quite get it right doesn't get penalized as much as someone who really screws up and doesn't care.

    If you can't afford the liability, then don't claim the reliability. Simple.

    Occurs to me that liability insurance for software (both individual and corporate products) could quickly become reality under such a scenario, with premiums set apace with the reliability claimed for said software.

    Perhaps it could start as a voluntary system, which develops coercive force on the software industry as consumers become accustomed to the concept and as more funding for independent testing becomes available -- the system would make it in the publishers' best interest to support it, perhaps with some charity testing for free software.

    Anyone else have ideas for how to extend the concept?

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  12. Fearmongering. by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually most flashable cards have a backup non-flashable ROM, mainly in case the power goes during a BIOS flashing or similar. Also, chips can't turn off write access to themselves so if you just have a valid ROM to boot it, you can overwrite the BIOS again with a working version. When there was this BIOS-overwriting virus some years ago, there were a few laptops that didn't have a backup chip, probably to save space, and they choked permanently. The remaining ones were just to reflash, problem solved. After that, they've learned.

    Kjella

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings