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Microsoft Promotions Turn Up in USPS Offices
Several readers, like this Anonymous Coward, have written with links to a letter from Cliff Crouch on macintouch.com. "I stumbled across this letter submitted to a web site I frequent. Apparently Microsoft has promotional displays with free WindowsXP promotional software in U.S. Post Offices."
Microsoft has a large advertising budget. So what are you so riled up about?
For better or worse, the US government is large. In fact, it is HUGE. It would be impossible for every decision to be internally consistent in any organziation this size. This is why you always see those exposes on ABC and the like saying Branch A of govt does this and that while Branch B seems to be doing someething flying in the face of it. Its not necessarily that the govt. are hypocrites, all it is is a aggregate of people like you and I. So in this case, its not really the worst thing in the world. And what happend to "innocent until proven guilty"?
Here in Australia, anyone can stick things in post offices if they pay for it. There are all sorts of brochures and things, plus most of the larger ISPs and phone companies have free samplers and recharge kits there.
I assume Microsoft's deal isn't an exclusive arrangement?
The US Post Office is a semi-private agency. It's entirely self funded, but there is congressional oversight.
The Post Office, due to poor management, is running a _BILLION_ dollar deficit right now. So it's no surprise to me that the USPS is looking for other sources of funding. Basically, it's either this, raise the price of stamps (something they proposed to Congress and they got slapped down for), or a hefty government bailout at taxpayer expense.
"You get what you pay for after all." --
I hate M$ same as everybody else but who cares? They paid some dough and the post office put up a display. Anybody could do it if they had the money.
The Post Office isn't some holy place, it's barely connected with the government, and hasn't received any tax dollars since Nixon. It's basically a private organization.
When you see Windows product placement in, say, a courtroom, that's when I'd start to worry....
...And what's most disturbing is that this is the same government which has an anti-trust suit against Microsoft. So much for the left hand knowing what the right hand is doing.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
Why would the Post Office let a competitor advertise in their building? I'm sure whoever uses XP will use email, which means less snail mail for the Post Office to deliver.
... is the government trying to decrease the public's need for snail mail so they can lay off postal workers, or are they smart enough to know that XP is such a poor, insecure excuse for an OS that they know it'll crash and people will go back to snail mail and increase their business?
So
I saw this display, and now after reading this post I must ask, "What does it matter?" It's not as if MS is advertising in your local city hall or courthouse. It's the post office... A branch of the government that isn't responsible for anything remotely important (yes, I realize mail delivery is important, but it's not going to make or break my life/freedom either way).
Not only that, but it's a branch of the government that's entirely self-sufficient. Not one red cent comes from taxpayers. So again I ask, what does it matter?
Advertising with the post office isn't new. Ever change your address? This is hardly noteworthy.
The postal worker in the article says that FedEx and UPS are doing the same thing. Why should the USPS not take a check to provide ad space?
It'll help keep stamps cheap.
sig is
We should double the cost of bulk-rate advertisements, rather than giving them a cut-rate. Why subsidize mail that no one wants?
Just the disks I have on hand... I'll make 10 copies of Red Hat, 10 copies of Mandrake, 10 copies of Suse, trek on down to the post office tomorrow and stuff them in the Microsoft ad. I encourage everyone to do the same :)
Maybe scribble a sign overhead and tape it to the MS ad. "...Or use Linux!"
Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny, Wile E. Coyote. They're all there. They've done that for years.
I've seen American Express application forms at the Post Office for as long as I can remember.
I really don't see much wrong with this.
Can that happen?
I know this sounds a bit naïve, but there are some places were I feel
I shouldn't have to see ads. My taxes (as much of a pittance that they are)
pay for post offices among other things. Why should the post office then need
get funding from elsewhere? I would be willing to pay 35 cents for a stamp if
it meant not having to see ads in the post office, just as I would pay more
taxes to make sure there aren't
any ads in schools
Sleep is for the weak!
Regardless of your opinions of Microsoft, it's advertising. AOL has done the same for years, leaving their CDs or floppy disks everywhere imaginable.
So MS puts posters in CDs into a USPS office? Big deal. It's not like you can argue that the USPS is a government office and the government is promoting it, the USPS is a government-contracted company, just look it up in your history book.
If the USPS agrees to hang the signs, then they're there. Personally, either someone will or won't upgrade, and a nifty poster in a post office won't influence too many people, and certainly not the type who would use Linux.
Call me a troll for not flaming Microsoft, but it's just marketing, not monopolistic business tactics. And hell, maybe the cost of postage will go down with the money that MS gives the USPS for putting the posters.
Gawyn
Freedom of Speech?
Why do you suppose the post office is advertising for Microsoft? Is it a conspiracy designed to kill Linux?
No, the truth is, Microsoft can advertise Windows XP because they have a large advertising budget. Linux doesn't get advertised nearly as much because Red Hat, Debian, Suse, Slackware, etc. are all operating on a very thin profit margin and can't afford the kind of advertising that Microsoft can.
Now, the question as to whether the US Postal System should endorse or provide a venue for the promotion of Windows XP is another issue altogether. But it is important to realize that without Microsoft's advertising budget, this wouldn't ever have happened.
Actually, I could use them as coasters in my living room. That would make a cool conversation piece!
The post office is not really part of the government, but rather a business run to support an important country function. Regardless of how its set up, it's a business nontheless. There's nothing illegal or even really that strange about this. In fact, the government has thier hands in other businesses much more than they do in the Post Office's. (Enron, for example.)
The USPS does not get any money from the taxpayers. They have to earn everything themselves. Since 9/11, the USPS has lost Billions of dollars in lost revenue, anthrax hassles, etc. They have to make up the money somewhere! If Micro$oft came to them and offered them a large amount of money to put up such display cases, I'm all for it!
BTW: the USPS does a tremendous job for the amount they charge for the postage. Have you looked at first-class postage rates in Europe?
You've missed the point entirely. Using the mail service to disseminate is one thing. I can't recall when I've seen the Post Office used to shill something totally unconnected to mail.
The Post Office is a place to conduct official business (like register for Selective Service, or paying your taxes). It is most definitely not for commercial advertising of this sort.
People do not complain about AOL free CD's because AOL not a monopoly.
:)
If I go into (insert any major shop) I can pick up a different free 'get online CD' (In the UK it's normally one of the following three, AOL, Yahoo or BT), then you have all the smaller ISP's, add on to that the commercial ISP's. Choose, you have it with ISP's, can you really say the same about the desktop?
As to 'free for home use', hell it virtual is, I know no one who paid for Windows, it comes preinstall on computers. As with Office, what you are suggesting is free upgrades... God bless capitalism...
mlk
But this really is not news... OMG MS are advertising in post offices!? What next, will they have adverts on TV? How will I escape!
Wow, I should not post when knackered.
The Post Office, due to poor management, is running a _BILLION_ dollar deficit right now
Then why do they do things like sponsor the Olympics? I wouldn't be annoyed with postage increases if they weren't subsidizing stupid PR stunts like this.
-margaret
Have you seen FedEx's prices lately? The reason it gets there in two days with tracking is because it costs about $10 to ship anything UNDER one pound. The reason the USPS exists is to ship mail reasonably quickly (compare the USPS to other national postal services and you'll see what I mean) and for a negligable cost. This isn't a very profitable enterprise, thus why the government runs it.
That's pretty good! I'd take out the 'hard-coded' reference to an arbitrary US Dollar amount, though. $100 million might sound about right for a really punishing fine today, but maybe $100 sounded reasonable for a fine back in the 19th century. These documents have staying power.
..unless, of course, you play games, develop software for windows, do video editing, have a consumer-grade webcam, scanner, etc., or are learning to use a computer and will have to know the OS for work. In which case, carry on..
Btw, nowadays Windows surpasses Linux in the desktop scene for three technical reasons:
1) video drivers with a standardized interface to the kernel. The X/Gtk/KDE thing is outdated; we need a more Windowsish approach where we drop files in, set up a few symlinks and it's using those drivers instead. We should not be forced to recompile our kernel or replace X!
2) a graphics SDK that's modern (OpenGL 2.0 and it's standardized pixel and vertex shader calls won't be out for another two or three quarters at least, according to the last meeting of the ARB, which means that without a doubt, DirectX will be the new standard for game development. This is fact. Live with it.)
3) a monolithic kernel.
Number 3's what's holding us back. I predict that once (if) the GNU hurd catches on, we'll start to see some open source developers moving in this direction. Maybe even the X people'll head that way. But until then.. Linux and BSD may be free, but they ain't the best. Sorry.
The USPS got privatized a long time ago. To imply that where it gets its advertising dollars has ANY connection with the MS case is so ludicrous that as an author I'd be embarassed to put my name on any article even suggesting it. Another pointless MS bashing treated like a newsworthy story. Why can't all this effort be applied towards something constructive?
After working in the shipping business, I learned quickly how the USPS is the government equivalent of Microsoft. Try sending an overnight letter via UPS or Federal Express to a PO Box. It can't be done. Why? Simple: The USPS forces senders to use their mail services.
When you are a business with no competition, you have no reason to improve. IMO, anybody would be crazy to send something of crucial value or importance via any postal service and expect the same service as a private equivalent (UPS/FedEx/Airbourne).
They are a corporate monopoly with government protection. Not to mention, the only government agency I have seen that runs TV ads ("Fly Like An Eagle" crap).
Just a general rant.
Look at my "submit story" history we see the following:
2001-11-21 06:59:10 Javascript cookie vulerablity in Opera (articles,security) (rejected)
2001-11-25 22:09:39 Human embryo cloned (articles,news) (rejected)
2001-12-05 06:14:01 Earth based telescopes now have potential to match (articles,news) (rejected)
And this, this makes it to the front page of Slashdot? WTF!? No, it needs to be expanded:
What
The
Fuck!?
I mean seriously? This has what to do with what exactly? MS in the post office? God forbid that there should be some commercialism in the US Junkmail distribution system. I mean my god, what's next, the post office advertising on TV? Or maybe they'll raise prices on stamps or something.
I mean really. Slashdot is so inconsistent it, it... Well, I guess we all expect it now, but, god
Ok, now go ahead and mod me down.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
I guess the reason people are generally not outraged by this kind of marketing is that Microsoft Windows is not in a way considered to be a "product" in the traditional sense of the word by general public. If you would ask 100 Joe Random Users to draw a computer, 95 of them would draw a Windows desktop. In peoples minds,MS Windows has become THE operating system instead of A operating system and a integrated essential part of any computer.
"There is a terrorist behind every bush"
Microsoft is a convicted monopolist that has shown no remorse for its actions, and scarcely acknowledges that it has done any wrong. Ideally, the government would not be helping to pormote this malignancy.
It has been repeated many times throughout this discussion, first that the Post Office is part of the US government, only to have that assertion contradicted to the effect that the Postal Service is actually an independant corporation established and run by the government -- posters have also pointed out that the Federal Government is the sole shareholder, appoints the directors, and as needed bails the service out to the tune of a billion dollars.
All this is missing the point: the government shouldn't be helping spread the monopoly even if the post office is technically independent. The service still answers to Congress, and does arguably more so than most other businesses. This sort of issue is well within the domain of public policy -- even if no policies currently exist that are relevant to this situation.
In a broader sense, corporations in general also answer to Congress (even in cases like Enron where they'd rather not!), and by extension we regulate all of them in numerous ways as well. In comparison to wholly indepenent and totally private corporations it should be easy to shape a public policy in regards to a pseudo-governmental organization like the post office -- even if it means appointing a board of directors who agree that convicted monopolists shouldn't have the privilege of advertising in Postal Service buildings.
This is also why this is a relevant Slashdot story. It involves what amounts to a public policy decision (or lack thereof) that affects technology that the Slashdot community cares about: Microsoft, monopolies, the blurred line between the public and private sector, and public policy regarding these topics.
Seeing as Microsoft and USPS are two monopolies that excel in crappy service, why would anyone be surprised to see them picking each other's noses?