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California City Issues Internet Cafe Moratorium
DarkZero writes: "The Sacramento Bee is reporting that the City Council of Garden Grove, California has issued a 45 day moratium on internet cafes following a fatal stabbing and several other crimes, with the justification that internet cafes are "improperly supervised environments" that very large groups of minors frequent daily (mostly to play games), and that a lot of gang violence has cropped up because of this. Another new restriction is that minors may not stay in any internet cafe past 8PM on a school night, though it isn't clear whether or not that restriction will be lifted after the 45 day period." The New York Times has a similarly breathless story, emphasizing the violence of games played at such cafes.
This is just my crazy idea...
We had the same problem in our local library, so the library decided that kids, especially teens, couldn't use the computers. So a bunch of us professional programmers and open source advocates got the library to open the computers up again as long as we supervised. What I found was that kids are just looking for two things - entertainment and knowledge. While we didn't let them play games, we taught them that this is a profession with a future and that not everyone uses their power for evil. A few of them got the local high school to start teaching computer science classes.
I really think the tech community needs to make the effort and reach out when necessary. Not only do we keep kids out of trouble, but we might even inspire the next Linus.
"I wish just for once.. i could read about a problem with kids and hear about a solution instead of some rediculous feel good legislation"
:).
Frankly this is probably not a big epidemic or 'problem' at all -- the media just loves to focus on it and the politicans love to have 'issues' that they can fight.
The relevance of this in light of the 'big picture' is small. There will always be violent kids just as there will always be violent adults. Just because one group of violent kids commits a crime does not mean that all kids are violent and thus must be regulated by the state (think about it, it is commonly *percieved* that 'adult' violent crime is committed at night time. If the government responded by putting a curfew on the nation we would be pissed).
Ask some of your friends these questions and I'm sure you'll be surpirsed at just how warped the public's sense of relevance is:
1) Do more people die from suicide in the US or murder?
The answer is by FAR suicide, but no one cares, no news agency 'reports' it and no politician poses a 'war on suicide'
2) Do more people die from airplane crashes or car accidents?
Obviosly car accidents, but SO many people mess even this simple fact up.
3) Is there more violent crime now (per capita) then in the 1950s?
Most people would say yes, however there is strong evidence that there is in fact much less *violent* crime today, however there was less *reported* crime in the past -- a big difference.
With these in mind, you can see how the public's perception of 'the issues' around violence and death is completely warped. This 'internet cafe' thingy is probably somthing completely blown out of proportion, a great political biline, an exciting news story but nothing more then the public using kids, the internet and violent games as a scapegoat for their ignorance and mis-understanding.
As for the line "parent's just don't understand" that is the truth in this case. They don't understand how the world has changed since they were kids and most of all they don't understand technology (aka internet). Their reactionary tendancies in light of this change makes thim spit out this legislative garbage.
With todays society it figures the disease would be considered the place and not the people, and the cure is to ban the people from the place.... I'd rather a kid at a computer keeping network security professionals on their toes than out on the streets killing. There are already laws against guns, drugs, and violence. It sounds to me like the police need to do a better job of making sure people in places like these are following them rather than restrict their hours, I'm sure the business owners can't be too happy.
Maybe I'm just biased, after all, sitting at a keyboard is likely the only reason I've never been arrested, or in jail, or on drugs.... I say give the kids access to computers throughout the night, just make sure the places are adiquetly policed...
As a human being, you start off life with no concept of boundaries. In one study I saw, small children were given intense lectures on the dangers of handguns and what to do if they came across one. Then, they were allowed to play while being secretly observed. While playing, they came across realistic handguns. Invariably, they'd pick the things up and start trying to shoot each other with them.
Children don't understand limits enough to be reasonable functioning members of society. Although some people never come to understand those limits, by consensus, our society has decided that generally people achieve sufficient understanding to be allowed to have their full privileges in the 18-21 year old range.
Ironically, the fact that I'm having to explain this simple needed restriction on younger members of our society is a measure of proof of its need.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
I disagree that this has nothing to do with "the internet, geeks, or nerds". Schools and shopping malls cause similar congregation of kids and the "corresponding" violence, and I have yet to see a city council place a moratorium on new shopping malls for this reason.
Furthermore, to suggest that these events do not raise the specter of shutdowns and bans is short sighted at best. This is how such bans begin.
I think this situation is expemplary of the cultural divide of fear between people who understand technology and those who do not. As people like Kevin Mitnick or David McOwen well understand, the fear of the latter is outrageous, pervasive, and incredibly destructive. It is a social phenomenon that borders on racism in its capacity for evil. Indeed, the greatest challenge I face as a technology professional is managing this fear on the part of my clients and managers which sometimes expresses itself as outright hatred toward me!
We have a responsibility to stand up when this fear manifests itself in public policy. It is, in my opinion, nothing less than a matter of civil rights.
This just gives the kids a few extra hours to get even more bored--just think of all the stabbings they could accomplish with all this new free time.
/. crowd modding you to Score 5, Insightful really gives me the creeps.
If I read correctly through your sarcasms, you basically say 2 things here:
1. Kids attending these cafes are actually would-be criminals. According to the article, investigators don't even assume that; they seem to think that the cafe was merely a battleground. i.e. gangs just met there to fight, they were not usual customers of the cafe.
2. You then fall into the usual (yet unacceptable) ultimatum/blackmail to society/gov : "give us what we want or we use violence."
I can live with the fact that you posted your comment without thinking of its implications, but the
other than The Mall, which is protected by tradition and capitalism
Funny you should say that. One of the malls in my home town was always plagued by gang violence. There were no extra laws passed to get the kids out of there. The mall was never closed because of the violence. People were so afraid to go there that most of the employees quit and shoppers went elsewhere. The mall closed only to lack of funds.
I agree with you. Had an arcade place or one of the so called "coffee bars" had the same amount of problems the city would have shut them down in a second.
He has to manage to fight the tide of everyone over 21 who "just doesn't give a damn" anymore. Actually, he has to deal with people like you. Not only does he himself have to vote for someone sympathetic, he has to convince a sufficient number of dolts like you to do the same.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
That's just it. Our (U.S.) culture is extending adolescence to the point where for many people, it lasts until the mid-20's. A simple example is when I was in Virginia Tech my senior year in 1987. I heard that they had established a "freshman" dorm and had programs to help freshmen get acclimitized to college.
;-)
These are 18-year-olds for crying out loud, not 6-year-olds. The best thing that happened to me when I started college was to live on a hall with mostly upperclassmen. A group of college freshman will act like high-school students. I group of college freshman _and_ upperclassmen do not. (Of course, that could be worse, but that's another story
Society seems to be following a similar pattern, which is what the original poster was complaining about. The amendment to lower the minimum voting age was probably the last of the trend to allow younger people more responsibility rather than less. But as I noted in my joking post above that everyone took as a troll: No one cares, because once you can do something about the problem, you don't have it anymore.
We need the real-life version of that ol' short-lived DC comic from the 70's called "Prez" about the first teenage president. Wait. No we don't. We already suffered through enough presidents with arrested development (cough*Clinton*cough).
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
but they [children] can be sentenced to death.
And the problem with that is?
There were a bunch of little twerp 'round here that sodomised a lady with a hot curling iron and left her for dead. It would be in our best interests if our court system offed them - and their parants as well.
Almost no other country in the world does that.
And most of the rest of the world sucks - Except for parts of Asia and Europe, and a tiny part of North Africa.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.