Last Word on Loki

A random reader sent in: "Loki's public CVS and FAQ database are now being hosted at icculus.org. The information, and a bit of evangelizing about Loki's demise can be found on icculus.org." You might take a look at the Linux Gamers' FAQ while you're there. Update: 01/25 21:05 GMT by M : Scott Draeker sends word that there will be an "official" repository of Loki code, including apparently some projects that weren't finished, hosted by SEUL in the near future.

Comments

One thing that will live on...

[FortKnox]

... is the SDL. Made by a Loki employee (forgot which one, someone help me here) to help the porting process for DirectX, I believe. Its a nice package for any linux developers that want to make games...

Re:One thing that will live on...

[Lumpy]

SDL is an awesome platform and toolkit for games graphics whatever. It makes direct X look like a nasty hack. Best part is that SDL is platform agnostic. It dont care and happily runs under windows. Anyone that is into serious game development or graphics development is using SDL. as it's faster, easier, and darn it it makes you feel good!

I tried for months to understand Direct X, and toyed with example after example... doing the same with SDL is tons easier and allows me to code the software in a real dev os instead of windows. (ok that was a harsh jab at windows... sorry... well. at least let me take back the sorry)

SDL can be used easily by a newbie to C programming... something that Direct X cannot do.

Piracy issues

[Alien54]

I think that it can be safe to say that we have a clssic case of Linux Uses shooting themselves in the foot. Why else would he be moved to say:

1. Don't pirate software. Yes, there is truth to James Sellman's statement . Lots of Linux users want everything for free, and lots of Linux users are filthy pirates when they can't just get software for free. GNU and Linux were never excuses to leech everything. That was never Stallman's point. I should also say, "Don't pirate ANY software, Linux or Windows, or whatever." Realize that every dime you take from Microsoft through piracy is NOTHING in comparison to the hurt that you put on Loki when you burned an ISO.

[...]

3. Don't buy Windows games. I hear how people can't justify paying full price for an "old game" that Loki ported while they can't stop themselves from running out and buying Quake3 the second it is released at full price for Windows. Dear lord, people. I know that I'm part of this insane industry, but they ARE just games. You can wait for them, and more importantly, you can do without if you really really have to. You need to tell the companies writing the software that you want that you don't want it unless it runs on Linux. The ultimate way to voice your opinion is to vote with your wallet. The sad truth is that this means sacrifice. You aren't going to get Warcraft 3 on Linux, which means that you should never BUY Warcraft 3, even though it will no doubt be a great game.

It is good to note that he does say "Stop whining. Loki is going away, and contrary to the image I've painted, it's really not entirely you're fault as a Linux user. There's no denying that Loki made some bad mistakes, and ultimately, Loki might be responsible for her own death."

But I can't help but think on how some folks helped push them over the edge in a twist on the tradgedy of the commons scenario. Everyone can have some free software only so long as no one gets greedy about taking advantadge of the good will of others, especially when the goodwill is provided by people whose side you are on. sort of. kinda. maybe.

Re:For what it's worth, I bought a Loki game today

[s20451]

To my mind, writing software is a SERVICE, with the end result free for all to use.

Sure. But what's the difference?

• Make software for me. I want to be able to use it however I like when you're done. -- OK, it'll take me three months full time to write, I'll have to hire five other guys, so that will be $100,000 for our services.
• Well, I don't have $100,000. But I do have 100 friends who will also use the software. -- Great, just collect $1000 each and you will have purchased my services.
• Well, I asked them all for $1000, and they said no. -- Fine. I think there are 1000 people who might want to buy the software, so I'll sell you a fraction of my services for $100 if you promise not to give copies of the software to anyone else.

What the hell, it's only Karma.

Re:Loki didn't work, but other things might:

[Colin Bayer]

Another, Linux-based dedicated game Distros. You pop in the CD and boot, start the game, no install required. Make the PC into kinda a game console. The wide variety of PC hardware makes this not work that well however...

OK, for the sake of this argument, we'll assume you're talking about a standard CD, maximum capacity somewhere around 650 megabytes.

To get a minimal gaming Linux distro up and running, you'll need:

a) the kernel and some essential binaries and libraries,

b) XFree86,

c) sound, networking, etc. drivers, and

d) the game itself.

Now, let's take a look at some sizes.

On my current Linux box (RedHat Linux 7.1, kernel 2.4.17), /bin is 6 megabytes. /lib is 48 megabytes. /usr/X11R6 is 239 megabytes. Now, even assuming you can cut these down to half the size they are on my box, that's still 173 megabytes total. Accounting for hardware differences, you'll need to have *at least* three (3dfx, nVidia, and everything else) XFree86 servers and GL driver sets, for another 21 megabytes or so. We're up to 194 megabytes at this point, and it doesn't run a game yet. Now, you can't pull out a whole game to core, as most people don't have 400 megabytes of RAM to blow on top of the game's footprint and X, etc; therefore, to prevent significant performance losses, you'll need to store the game uncompressed on CD. According to the bottom of the Quake3 box I have here, an install takes no less than 440MB. At this point, we've hit 634 megabytes.

This doesn't include audio or networking drivers, both of which are dodgy to get working even with human intervention at this point in time.

In addition, you're going to need swap and storage space that work irregardless of the user's chosen operating system, and that's going to be another 2 headaches.

(For the record: someone on OpenProjectsNet:#loki brought this up about 6 months ago, and I challenged them to come up with such a CD that would work on Windows, OS/2, FreeBSD, etc. I never heard back.)

Let me sum this up in two words:

not feasible.

For one, transgaming. Full porting takes too long, while you port, the market buys up the windows version.

Uhh, not if you have the miraculous luck to be working with a company that's not a bunch of idiots. In those cases, you can achieve simultaneous release across platforms.

By 6 months, the market was saturated. With Transgaming, they have a chance to get to the market before it *completely* dries up.

So, you propose to save Linux gaming by having people purchase the Windows versions in a manner indistinguishable from the other 95% of the public, then having them play them in a sub-par API wrapper layer. <sarcasm>Sounds absolutely freaking great.</sarcasm>

I'm inclined to agree with both Draeker and icculus. It's partially the Linux gaming community's insistence that everything should be free (if someone mirrors news.lokigames.com, take a look in loki.games.* for all of the "free binaries" threads; you will find them).

In any case, TransGaming is not the solution. The only places where I find it anywhere close to appropriate to use WineX is when I'm using free programs that are Windows-only (say, 99.999% of all 3D modelers (UnrealEd, QuArK, and WorldCraft, too...), media players, and installer packages for products produced by a bunch of single-platform ninnies), very few of which, I've found, actually *work* in Wine.

In other words, I'm inclined to agree with both Draeker and icculus. The Linux gaming community as a whole had a great opportunity to make themselves heard, and they spoiled it by being a bunch of warez monkeys, Wine boosters, and dual-booting cheapskates. Now that Loki's gone, and there's one fewer company to mooch off of, you recommend stopgap solutions that perpetuate Windows-centric gaming.

To quote the late Douglas Adams, "'Pathetic bloody planet. I've no sympathy at all.'"