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Leonard Kleinrock On The Origins of Packet Switching

An Anonymous Coward writes: "From Ben Sullivan's Tech Blog (http://www.techblog.com). An email from Leonard Kleinrock on why he really was the brains behind packet switching. It's a first-hand account from Kleinrock in a blog. A neat little journalistic scoop for bloggers, and some insights for techheads on Internet history."

40 of 137 comments (clear)

  1. everyone knows... by doooras · · Score: 2, Funny

    "I invented packet switching"

    -Al Gore

    1. Re:everyone knows... by Zeinfeld · · Score: 2, Informative
      "I invented packet switching" -Al Gore

      It is a shame that the GOP have to pay dweebs to sit in front of computers to repeat lies. Gore never claimed to invent the Internet.

      Gore correctly and truthfully took credit for getting us the money to develop the Internet. He was also very helpful in the development of the Web. The endorsement of the Web by the Whitehouse had a massive effect on commercial use. It was also the final nail in the coffin for 'Interactive TV'.

      Of course if a lie is repeated often enough people will eventually mistake it for the truth. This particular lie was invented because the GOP was frightened of the comparison between Gore who had achieve a lot and their empty suit of whom the best they could say was he would not interfere with his advisers.

      --
      Looking for an Information Security student project suggestion?
      Try http://dotcrimeManifesto.com/
    2. Re:everyone knows... by ZaBu911 · · Score: 2

      During the campaign of '00 scheduled debates, when Bush was preaching ridiculously incorrect numbers and Gore proved him wrong, Bush said the following:

      "It appears that Gore has not only invented the internet but the Calculator as well."

      That was a rather witty comeback. Being a president is about having a good sense of humor, eloquence, and people skills. The point I'm trying to make is that you shouldn't take everything too seriously, or whatever.

    3. Re:everyone knows... by Lars+T. · · Score: 2

      But it's not about being stupid. Tough luck America, you should have known better.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    4. Re:everyone knows... by dillon_rinker · · Score: 2

      Gore correctly and truthfully took credit for getting us the money to develop the Internet.

      Right. I suppose you also believe that President Clinton did not perjure himself because he consciously defined "is" differently than his questioner.

      Let's quote Al Gore...

      "I took the initiative in creating the Internet." I'll grant that he didn't use the word "invent." I'll also suggest this analogy...

      You work 70-hour weeks for a year to develop THE software technology that will rocket your startup into the ranks of the Fortune 500. Your manager goes to the CEO and says "I should be given money and power because I took the initiative in creating this new technology." Did he lie? According to you, no. Did he choose his words carefully so that the uninformed would be led to believe a mistruth? Absolutely.

    5. Re:everyone knows... by isdnip · · Score: 3, Informative

      In Congress, "initiative" refers to a funding measure. Gore led the charge for the funding for the NSFnet. That was indeed an "initiative". And the NSFnet was *the* major Internet backbone after the ARPAnet and before commercialization.

      Finding a different meaning of a word which doesn't apply is simply obfuscation.

    6. Re:everyone knows... by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 2

      Reagan could wisecrack too, didn't sop him being a chowderhead though did it?

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
    7. Re:everyone knows... by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 2

      yeah? so? it's nice to know that even geeks posess a trace of humanity.

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
  2. From last time by oregon · · Score: 3, Informative

    A previous discussion here.

    --

    ---
    Oregon
  3. An Alternate History by Alien54 · · Score: 2
    I think I now understand why Davies was so hung up on the issue. He had developed a one-node packet switch in the UK before the ARPANET was deployed. Unfortunately, the UK would not provide enough financial support to Davies so that he could expand his one-node switch into an operational network. Had they done so, the Internet might have been born in the UK; instead his work was stalled and could not go forward. This must have been very frustrating for him.

    That would have been interesting. Britain as the home of the Internet.

    The possibilities of an alternate history are fascinating.

    In any case some of it is a matter of research being done in parallel, which means that these sort of debates will take place as a matter of course.

    --
    "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
  4. Re:Is it really that clever? by Beetjebrak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Umm, yes, it is that clever. When you send someone a letter (one of those cool paper things with ink on 'em), you expect it to arrive on time and in one piece. This is exactly what snailmail does. The postal service picks up your letter, routes it through their distribution channels, and delivers it to the recipient's mailbox. Now what if your company wishes to send out an enormous box containing for example a new big screen TV to some customer? You probably won't use regular mail, but have a heavier-duty delivery service handle it at a higher price because the postman would break his back lugging your box across the city. But what if there were no alternative? Man, that postman would be SLOW! Same goes for electronic bandwidth. If you'd send a single small e-mail out as a single entity (packet if you will), the chances of it arriving properly at the recipient's inbox are pretty good. This is because the tiny little email doesn't pull a lot of bandwidth and will relatively easily slip through more or less congested lines. Sending out the 2-hour video of your wedding as a single packet across a routed network is bound to give problems. Somewhere along the line the network gets congested because your huge video can't go throught he same pipe together with the next guy's MP3 collection. Result: digital roadblock and there is no such thing as UPS on the internet to deliver big packets. The smart bit on packet switching in analogy to snail mail (considering the fact that we're talking 1962 here) is this: you'd never chop that big screen TV into little pieces so a small army of postmen could swiftly deliver it to your customer and reassemble it on the spot. It must have required a pretty brilliant leap of thought to actually do this for data. Intuitively you'd think the risk of data corruption would be too great with this disassembly- reassembly-step. Luckily we're dealing with computers here, not humans, so packet switching actually did turn out a big success. PS. I know my analogy here is flawed, but hey, you get the point, right? ;-)

    --
    Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
  5. based on "aloha" radio network in Hawaii by peter303 · · Score: 2

    That is what Metcafe says.

    1. Re:based on "aloha" radio network in Hawaii by macdaddy · · Score: 2

      That's not packet switching. It was more or less the invention of a shared communication channel. AlohaNet inspired behind Ethernet but they are not related. Read Ethernet by O'Reilly, Chapter One, for a good discussion of the history.

  6. Moderator IQ test by Sanity · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is a generic reply that could be written in response to any Slashdot article describing a new scientific advance - honestly, read it again. I have often thought that it would be fun to do this, create a small number of pre-canned responses designed to get moderated up but which actually don't say anything - looks like someone else got there first.

    Whichever idiot moderated it up deserves eternal ridicule.

    1. Re:Moderator IQ test by nusuth · · Score: 2
      An afternoon with Perl and Gnuplot would probably be quite interesting with that data. It would be sobering too, especially if logs include some key phrases from the comment (like "I MS because", "Nuking them to ground is not a sane idea because") Many people think editor moderation is a problem. I think moderation is the problem and user moderation is the worse part of it.

      I always got the impression the IP-banning business was more to do with how many negative mods you recieved in a short space of time...

      Yeah, it has nothing to do with AC posts, I was just quite fond of my 42 karma so posting as AC and planning to continue that way. Anyway, out of my five posts -including this- to this thread, two has already been -rightfully I must add- modded down as offtopic. I expect these three will soon follow. That is plenty of down moderation in a short amount of time but I don't know how much it really takes to be banned.

      --

      Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!

  7. Re:No by cperciva · · Score: 3

    Do IP packets only contain a single byte payload?

    I've known a number of people to send two postcards because what they want to write doesn't fit on one; and they helpfully write "continued on next postcard", exactly the way that IP fragments do. And, somewhat rarer but an even closer analogue, when there has been a weight limit on lettermail, people have sent (for example) the first five pages of a long letter in one envelope, and the last three pages in a second envelope.

    And then there's all the furniture which is shipped in parts for the recipient to assemble...

  8. Mod parent up by Sanity · · Score: 2

    This is an excellent point. Packet switching really is an obvious idea, it is just the postal system done electronically. Watching these computer scientists squabble over these crumbs of creativity is embarrasing.

  9. His own webpage by leiz · · Score: 3, Informative

    He has his very own webpage with information about the early days of the internet as well as his accomplishments.

  10. Off-topic by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 2

    IIRC, Ethernet was based on the "aloha" radio network in Hawaii, but there was packet switching long before there was Ethernet.

  11. US Law by glowingspleen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Whoever owns the patent, wins. Even that guy who said "Let's Roll"'s family lost their right to the phrase b/c someone quickly patented it.

    1. Re:US Law by Syre · · Score: 2

      Actually, that's not true.

      In the USA, the law is "first to invent" not "first to file".

      This means that if you invent something, but don't file until after someone else does, and your invention date is prior to the invention date of the first filer, and you can prove it (with lab notebooks, witnesses, etc.), you win.

      There are limitations on this -- you can't have publicly disclosed the invention more than one year before filing, for example, nor can you invent something and sit on it indefinitely without filing unless you are "actively developing" it.

      In other countries, "first to file" is typically the rule.

      (note, I am not a lawyer, so don't rely on this and sue me later!)

  12. Freedman Doc by zerocool^ · · Score: 2

    From avi freedman's homepage: the Freedman doc - info on multihoming and BGP.
    BR~z

    --
    sig?
  13. How about Donald Davies by Aztech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Donald Davies is largely acknowledged for developing Packet Switching (and even coining that very phrase) at the National Physical Laboratory in the UK, however he was not American so he's largely ignored.

    1. Re:How about Donald Davies by Aztech · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have, Donald Davies is usually ignored or maligned, he died in 2000 so you can't argue with a dead man, that's why I find the article somewhat nauseating.

    2. Re:How about Donald Davies by Accelerated+Joe · · Score: 2, Informative

      Donald Davies is largely acknowledged for developing Packet Switching (and even coining that very phrase) at the National Physical Laboratory in the UK, however he was not American so he's largely ignored.

      The article covers Davies' involvement. Kleinrock repeats again and again that there is cold hard evidence that he created packet switching before Davies (in his dissertation). This has nothing to do with whether Davies is around to defend himself or not. You really should have read the article.

      --
      They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security
    3. Re:How about Donald Davies by Slashamatic · · Score: 2, Informative
      The commercial uptake of packet switching in the UK was slow though. The General Post Office who used to run all forms of communications in the UK from letters through to telephones (probably including carrier pidgeons) quite liked selling fixed lines.

      the early nets did exist in the seventies, but these were research institutions and universities running on top of GPO leased circuits. They were vital for research infrastructure, but there wasn't much interest from other sources with deeper pockets, i.e., the military or commercial interests. The GPO eventially got some of the research switches rebuilt as products by GEC and it launched EPSS (Experimental Packet Switched Service) in the mid seventies.

      The commercial PSS net didn't start until later. A lot of the early X.25 work was done in the UK and by that time other interests were getting involved, but now we are talking about the late seventies.

      Effectively, the UK was running almost ten years behind the UK by then. Many companies started moving to X.25 nets but the initiative had been lost. I guess if defence interests had got interested in the technology, thst would have given it a financial boost.

      Davies, though was not just an expert on packet switched networks, he also had quite a lot to do with computer security. Perhaps he didn't 'discover' PSS, but he certainly contributed a lot there as well as in other areas.

    4. Re:How about Donald Davies by dillon_rinker · · Score: 2

      And I am widely acknowledged as the King of America.

      Come on, read the article, find a flaw in his statements, and refute them. Kleinrock states that he analyzed packet switching mathematically in his 1962 thesis, something that Davies never did. Is he overstating? Does Davies have a publication that predates this? Did he develop/discover independently and then parlay that into the current technology? The latter would be a particularly cunning argument, if you can support it. But don't tell us "Oh, everybody says ..." because it makes you sound like an idiot rather than an informed individual. And don't mind me, I'm just a normal largely ignorant slashdotizen.

    5. Re:How about Donald Davies by Aztech · · Score: 2

      The 1962 paper is interesting, which incidentally wasn't published until 1964, people generally go by the date of publication not when they inked the first paragraph. Surprsingly the above paper doesn't mention the word 'packet' once, which is a bit of a contradiction if you claim to have invented 'packet switching'.

      The first instance of "Packet" and '"acket Switching" was in Davies' 1967 paper "A digital Communications Network for Computers", which was presented at a conference in Tennessee, at the same conference Lawrence Roberts of ARPA presented a design for creating a computer network. He had also made presentations before ARPA a year before on the concepts of 'packet switching'.

    6. Re:How about Donald Davies by dillon_rinker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The 1962 paper is interesting...Surprsingly the above paper doesn't mention the word 'packet' once, which is a bit of a contradiction if you claim to have invented 'packet switching'

      He credits Davies with coining the term "packet switching." You seem to be saying that if you don't use the currently popular name when you first describe your idea, then you're not the originator of the idea...the guy who thinks up the popular name is the inventor.

      By your reasoning, Newton, who coined the term "calculus" should get all the credit for the development of that branch of mathematics, and Leibniz should get none, since the German-speaking Leibniz didn't use the term "calculus." (In case you're not up on your history of mathematics, Leibniz independently co-developed calculus and is credited in many non-English speaking countries as the developer of that branch of mathematics.)

      Your rhetorical skills are sorely lacking. First Davies is the inventor because everyone knows he is, and now he's the inventor because he was the first to name it by the name you know it by. Here's my question:

      What's your evidence for your belief that Davies either developed the concepts prior to Kleinrock, did more significant development work than Kleinrock, or for some other reason has a stronger term to the title "Inventor of Packet Switchng"?

      My position is that the title is about as valid as "Inventor of the World Wide Web" and that all these guys should take a lesson from Newton..."If I have seen farther than others, it is because I am standing on the shoulders of giants...

  14. For the less clueful... by Adrian+Voinea · · Score: 2

    Packet switching refers to protocols in which messages are divided into packets before they are sent. Each packet is then transmitted individually and can even follow different routes to its destination. Once all the packets forming a message arrive at the destination, they are recompiled into the original message.

    Most modern Wide Area Network (WAN) protocols, including TCP/IP, X.25, and Frame Relay, are based on packet-switching technologies. In contrast, normal telephone service is based on a circuit-switching technology, in which a dedicated line is allocated for transmission between two parties. Circuit-switching is ideal when data must be transmitted quickly and must arrive in the same order in which it's sent. This is the case with most real-time data, such as live audio and video. Packet switching is more efficient and robust for data that can withstand some delays in transmission, such as e-mail messages and Web pages.

    A new technology, ATM, attempts to combine the best of both worlds -- the guaranteed delivery of circuit-switched networks and the robustness and efficiency of packet-switching networks.
    ...courtesy of Webopedia

  15. Digital transmission before packet switching by Animats · · Score: 2
    Although they're forgotten today, there were many pre-packet-switching systems that built up to the technology. Polled terminals, like the IBM 3270 and its prececessors, could be thought of as a form of centralized packet-switching. (Polling goes all the way back to the mechanical teletype era.) There were "statistical time-division multiplexers", which multiplexed N async char data streams into a pipe that had less bandwidth than all the incoming lines. There was the original RAND proposal for a flooding network for emergency military messages.

    The big breakthrough needed for the ARPANET was the militarized DDP-516 minicomputer, which was the first computer you could just ship someplace and expect it to work when turned on.

    1. Re:Digital transmission before packet switching by Animats · · Score: 2
      The first fully automated store and forward network was Plan 55, deployed in the 1950s. This store and forward message switch was the backbone of Western Union's telegram service, and versions were used by the military.

      Plan 55 was basically Sendmail built out of paper tape equipment and telephone relays. Messages came in on teletype links and were saved on incoming queues built from pairs of paper tape punches and readers, connected by a big bin for the paper tape. The header of each message was read, an outgoing link selected by looking up the destination address automatically, and a telephone switch was used to establish a cross-office link to an outgoing buffer. The message, including header, was then copied to the outgoing paper tape buffer across the room, via the telephone switch, at a higher rate than the incoming and outgoing lines to avoid internal congestion within the switching system. Outgoing paper tape buffers, when not empty, were transmitted on their associated lines.

      Crude though this seems, all the basics of a store and forward network had been fully automated. Incoming buffers, message header parsing, determination of outgoing route from destination address, message queuing for output on the proper route, and forwarding were all present in Plan 55. Plan 55 centers were distributed and networked, with redundant routes. Messages were often forwarded multiple times, with the original header and content preserved. So all the basics of networking were present.

      All this required building-sized installations, consumed vast amounts of paper tape (every forwarded message was punched twice per node, and the tape went directly from the reader to a trash can), and was slow. But all the crucial ideas were there.

      Plan 55 message format lives on in NOAA weather forecasts and some FEMA emergency message systems. Messages that begin "ZCZC" and end "NNNN" are in Plan 55 format. The letters and numbers between "ZCZC" and the next CR are the address; everything else up to the NNNN is the message text.

  16. Analysis isn't invention by isdnip · · Score: 2, Flamebait

    Kleinrock is claiming too much credit.

    Yes, his work on queueing theory is important, at least to people concerned with math and network analytics. And if anybody gives a damn about analyzing the performance of a packet-switched network mathematically, then it'll fall back onto Kleinrock's work.

    But what passes for packet switching nowadays -- "The Internet" -- is most certainly not the result of careful analysis! It works by brute force. It's inefficient. It is badly monitored and mostly unmetered. So Kleinrock's analysis, which might be useful, is ignored.

    Anybody with half a sense of the math wouldn't dare try to cram constant-rate streaming traffic, like telephony or broadcasting, onto the IP Internet. It's inefficient as hell. Economy of scale is what makes it seem to work, compared to economy of specialization (what ATM would excel at). But that's the Internet's current ruling ethos -- if it seems to work, do it, even to excess.

    The original inventors -- Davies, Baran, and the BBN crew -- were not doing mathematical optimization. They were hacking (in the good sense) something together and observing what worked. Kleinrock is like a guy who invents a great network management system that never gets turned on, but who still claims credit for the network that his system might have been able to manage.

    And puh-LEEZ, don't give Vint any of the credit. He's made a great living as the Chauncy Gardiner of the Internet.

    1. Re:Analysis isn't invention by mgblst · · Score: 2, Informative

      Off course, today implementation has changed a lot from the beginning, and we have a more ordered system, like the Vegas and Reno BSD algorithms.

    2. Re:Analysis isn't invention by isdnip · · Score: 2

      The point I'm making is that the implementation is not primarily based on academic theory. It's based on the Internet's own culture, which puts experimentation in front of architecture, implementation in front of design. It's based on empiricism, on doing what works, and for the most part doesn't give a goat's bzadeh about Kleinrock's theory. Even when it should pay more heed!

    3. Re:Analysis isn't invention by one-egg · · Score: 2
      The subject line of this article is misleading. Analysis of a system isn't the same as building the system. But in many cases, the analysis of a system has demonstrated that it made sense to attempt building it. I could cite many examples -- not only in CS; the same principle applies to bridges and space elevators. As a general rule, the analyst gets credit for the original idea.

      Kleinrock's analysis...is ignored

      Sorry, but that's just plain wrong. Analysis has been a major part of networking from the very beginning, in no small part due to Kleinrock's influence.

      Kleinrock is like a guy who invents a great network...that never gets turned on, but who still claims credit

      Again, wrong. UCLA was one of the first three nodes on the ARPANET These issues have been discussed in great detail on the computer history mailing list. The general consensus as I recall it is that all of Kleinrock, Baran, and Larry Roberts made major contributions. None can really claim to be the sole inventor. All can claim that without them, the ARPANET wouldn't have happened.

  17. Re:No by Tony-A · · Score: 2

    Multi-volume set, sent a volume at a time.
    Multi-chapter book, sent a chapter at a time.
    Newspaper serials, sent a column at a time.
    I'm sure somebody has sent a longer missive, written on the back of postcards.

  18. Re:ok once and for all..... by BlowCat · · Score: 2
    blog = bloated log. You can find them sometimes in restrooms.

    Seriously, it's typical for English to remove significant parts of words provided that the pronounciation doesn't change much. Also it's typical not to consider whether the new word is similar to already existing words. English speakers are very simple-minded in this regard.

    If somebody, say, in Poland came to the market with a product called "Hot Dogs" (in Polish), they would go out of business immediately. And nobody would give a respectable site a name so closely reminding "bloated log".

  19. Re:Is it really that clever? by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 2

    absolutely. Even more so would be the way that containers are transported around the world by land and sea. Have you ever been to a modern container port? It's mind-bending.

    --
    That was classic intercourse!
  20. Re:Is it really that clever? by Dirtside · · Score: 2

    (Be warned - this post is offtopic.)

    Your sig says "There is one thing humans can never do: be descendant from apes."

    Computers descended from humans, and humans descended from apes. Therefore computers descended from apes. ;)

    --
    "Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased