NACI: Gov't of South Africa Pushes Open Source

GNU lover writes "National Advisory Council on Innovation in South Africa has issued a release concering the use of Open Source and the digital divide." The use of open source in the 3rd/2nd world is one way to get around licensing costs - at least more honest then pirating.

Comments

mars?

[TheQuantumShift]

I think we need to go back to the moon and set up some bases, to better prepare us for mars, and to shut up those idiots who think nasa is in the business of special effects and sound stages. Or maybe turn the ISS into something useful, like a launch pad for some really cool ships or something. Mars would be cool and all, but not with current technology, where it takes months just for a probe to get there and malfunction. And we need some more time to get off our asses and join the rest of the world in the metric system for christ's sake!

Re:mars?

[Winged Cat]

1. Reduce cost to get stuff into space. $10k/lb. to LEO makes everything else too expensive. $100/lb. is apparently achievable even before you get many users (and being reached for by many private efforts today).
   
2. Set up some industry in orbit, or on the Moon, to pay for this. Space tourism, mining, automated construction (of solar power satellites, telescopes, and whatever else people will pay you to build up there)...even with what little we know, there are already potentials for business. More opportunities will likely pop up in the course of setting these up, but the venture capitalists want established opportunities - and those do exist.
   
3. Set up manned habitation. There are people who will gladly pay to, within limits, be research subjects for the long-term effects of space on the average (non-elite-astronaut) human body, especially if you use the results to build things that minimize these effects (for instance, start out with spin-induced artificial gravity for most of the habitat); if you add more devices later, you can then ask for more people to "test" the improvements. Eventually, expand this habitat to be self-sufficient.
   
4. ...and there's your humanity in space. Sit back, and let the distributed (if limited in certain ways) intelligence of the masses work its magic.
   

Planetary Society Poll on NASA

[ec_hack]

Where NASA was asking for our opinion on where to go in space? Well, the results are in. Lo and behold, we all want to go to Mars.

The poll, alas, was only about robotic exploration priorities. The Planetary Society is dedicated to promoting robotic exploration off the planet and is mildly biased against such projects as the ISS and human exploration of Mars and the Moon. To support human exploration, join the National Space Society.

Note: I support the use of robots as precursors to sending the scientists and colonists. Both programs have merit, and provide me with a paycheck in the private sector.

Re:Planetary Society Poll on NASA

[proxima]

The Planetary Society is dedicated to promoting robotic exploration off the planet and is mildly biased against such projects as the ISS and human exploration of Mars and the Moon.

Wrong.

Check out this page.

Since its inception, the Planetary Society has advocated the exploration of Mars?with the ultimate goal of sending humans to the Red Planet


The Planetary Society promotes all types of space exploration to other planets, especially Mars.

Dropped "Linux" because the kernel doesn't matter

[yerricde]

Anyone else notice that he's dropped GNU/Linux altogether? Now it's just GNU. No credit given at all to the kernel. I guess it's just not important.

That's because the issues are the same, whether you run GNU/Linux, GNU/Solaris, GNU/Win32, GNU/DOS, or any other port of the GNU userland.

He isn't pro-Free software in the least. He is simply pro-GPL and anti-everything else.

He's pro-free software. He understands that BSD-class licenses (especially for noddy programs under 2 KLOC or for software used in embedded systems), weak copyleft licenses (especially for free clones of common libraries), and GPL-class strong copyleft licenses all have their place.

"Certainly not"...

[mgkimsal2]

He runs into a big problem: not only is the latest software expensive with all manner of bewildering bells and whistles that he does not need, but it doesn't run on such an old machine. What is he to do? Would it be legal to find and use an old copy of the operating system and spreadsheet? "Certainly not", replies his software dealer, and sternly warns him of the fate that awaits users of illegal software copies.

I've got a problem with this scenario. Are we REALLY saying that if I found someone who had a LEGALLY LICENSED copy of Windows 95 from 1995, we could not engage in any sort of transaction to transfer the license (per whatever terms were stated in the Win95 original license) over to me?

Arguing that ANY transfer of license at all is 'illegal' to bolster the 'open source' frenzy strikes me as very shortsighted. It's just not necessary to make up or exaggerate the situation to make the case for open software.

Dang

[NiftyNews]

"The use of open source in the 3rd/2nd world is one way to get around licensing costs"

Now if only they could license food...

Re:Dang

[ImaLamer]

Well, why not use the computers as a tool to communicate?

Their local gov't could ask anyone in the world for tips on anything. Solar cooking, ethernet over barbed wire... the point would be to find something to solve all of their smaller problems.

There is the point of view that GPL software can be used by someone who doesn't have a dime. This alone saves money. But being able to chat, e-mail, use USENET, browse the web, etc... can help them. It can certainly help anyone around the house. Anyone can get online and ask for help with anything. Sometimes you get answers. Of course sometimes you can't.

Being able to open a free web page somewhere could help a local gov't solve a problem. Geocities could host the question, you provide an e-mail.

Hopefully that is what the computers would go for. You know they aren't going to 'Nuclear Research', but you hope they will help someone interface with the world.

When someone orders something from Amazon.com I will lose my faith in the idea.

Re:Dang

[Twylite]

Oh dear, you must be an American. Try looking at http://www.polity.org.za/ which has information about SA, and links to most of the government web sites. We don't exactly need free hosting on Geocities; in fact we have already hosted an online debate on electronic commerce regulations (which is far more forward-looking than most developed nations).

Oh, by the by: [nucleartourist.com] (South Africa) ESKOM is the 5th largest utility in the world. They operate the 2 Koeburg reactors, each with a capacity of ~900 MWe. They do have a page listing their generating facilities with capacity.

ESKOM also developed and are prototyping pebble-based molecular reactors, which Germany and France gave up (citing as impractical) nearly two decades ago. These promise to provide cheap, clean and safe energy to anything up to a small city, and can be located where needed. They promise to be a solution to the energy problem in the third world.

a World Map

[Alien54]

I would like to see a map of the world color coded depending on the status of government support for open source, etc.

This would be probably educational, as well as a possible boost in moral.

Something titled: "Countries in the world where open source is recommended"

Extra brownie points for links, etc.

My Favourite Quote

[Why Should I]

This had me in stitches

Needless to say, lowering software costs by violating proprietary license conditions is not an option. Happily, there are often legal alternatives to proprietary software: non-proprietary "open software".&nbsp(emphasis by me)

Sounds like their saying that they could just steal proprietry software, but it makes them sad.

Using open source is not only good for these people monetarily, it's good for them emotionally, since it makes them happy. - lol

I just hope they fully understand the prinicpal behind releasing any code that uses GPL code in it, i.e. using GPL software components as opposed to just using GPL software applications.

News Flash!

[jtdubs]

News Flash! Poor Counties Choose Free Operating Systems!

Justin Dubs

3rd world? 2nd world? 1st world?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just a quick comment: these terms have a specific political meaning and they're not being used correctly here. The first world is defined as being the post-war US+Allies+Japan capitalist bloc, the second world is defined as being Russia and it's allied Soviet republics. The third world is defined as being the non-committed nations, often times former colonies now under self-rule. This can be verifed with a simple search on the web, or the old way - reading a book. South Africa, for all it's faults, is not a second or third world country - it was and is a member of the US-led capitalist bloc, and as such, like the former Brit colonies of Oz and Canada, it's a first world country. So there.

Unenviable position of South Africa

[bushboy]

South Africa finds itself in the unenvieable position of being one of the most stable and prosperous nations in Africa, with a democracy that works.

It's unenvieable because we have to take the responsibility for the rest of Africa and try to somehow clean up the mess it's in, but at the same time, not be seen in the same light as a country like Zimbabwe, our next door neighbour - unfortunately, this is happening anyway !

Open source is a good place to start in Africa, but it's not much use in many countries in Africa if there's no computers, or power !

Lets face it, computers for the population of poorer nations is not really as important as a stable economy and jobs - you can't eat computers !

What is important is getting the government and government departments of those poor nations on track regarding the use of computers to try to make things more efficient - South Africa, which is fairly technologically adept - is in a good position to make this happen. IOW, a smaller undertaking to try to help the infrastructure of poorer countries cope.

Yes, we do have the latest computer hardware and software over here in South Afica and techies who know how to use them :)

So, South Africa should take a leading role in providing cheap computer solutions to poorer nations - good for us ! - it's nice to read something positive about Africa for a change :)

Not really

[m4g02]

Everybody talks like if they knew since years that 3rd world countries use Open source... well, i have beent on a lot of this countries for long and will tell you something:

They DONT use open source stuff, its usually more difficult than Microsoft software and there is not enough education there to, lets say, recompile the kernel. They are in a piracy hipe, you can find full streets of pirated software stores and you can find from screensavers to SQL 2000.

They use Windows and more Windows, all pirated, even small to medium corporations use pirates Microsoft stuff, goverment has so many things to worry that looking for pirated software isnt even in the list.

Yes, they REALLY are...

[JesseL]

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to resell old software,but Microsoft cerainly has.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Open source not for the developing world?

[WIAKywbfatw]

(Before you right this off as a troll, please read on and think about how different your lifestyle is from that of the majority of the people in the world, who have no access to a telephone line, let alone the internet.)

OK, it's a no-brainer that open source software would be a good fit for governments that, in many cases, have problems feeding, clothing and housing their populations.*

But how, practically is this achievable on anything other than an administrative level? Running Linux and Star Office rather than Microsoft Windows and Office and employing sysadmins with the relative skills is all doable in the halls of power but how can open source be brought to the people?

In countries where many rural areas lack running water, let alone electricity, is it realistic to hope that the open source movement can help the common man?

OK, so a little off the government's licensing costs can't hurt but will it really make a meaningful difference? Not to Joe Average it won't.

If there was some way of getting cheap (second hand?) no-thrills PCs to local schools in a developing country then I think open source software could make a difference but, for all sorts of reasons, this just isn't practical.

For one thing, even open source software requires support (and so does the hardware it runs on). You might find all the support you need online but someone who lives miles from the nearest telephone is going to find it a little harder.

I'd love it for it to be possible, but it's not. The real world just doesn't work that way.

In my humble opinion, hoping for open source software to take off in the developing world before it happens in the developed world is a pipe dream.

(* No, I don't put South Africa in this category. Thanks to it's mineral riches, it's one of the few countries in Africa that can stand on its own two feet. It's a pity that the interest payments alone on crippling debt stops other african nations from being so self-sufficient, but that's another story.)

Re:Open source not for the developing world?

[Twylite]

South Africa is fairly unique amongst developing (esp. African) nations. We have an excellent infrastructure for transportation and communication in most parts of the country. While many people do not have their own telephone lines, there are ongoing projects to remedy this situation.

But far more interesting is the fact that these are a huge number of people living in ghetto-type conditions with no basic services, who are using the cellular networks to communicate. This goes to show that there is money and intent available for electronic communication.

There are several existing projects to get PCs into underdeveloped schools. In fact the hardware side of the projects is quite successful, but they are struggling because of the cost of software and the lack of teachers with computer experience. Linux is not suitable in such environments until it is easy to install and administer with little or no experience.

One of SA's biggest barriers to bringing "computing to the masses" is the commercial attitude: SA is extremely loyal to Microsoft, and to leading-edge technology. Technology more than a couple of years old becomes nearly impossible to get. Few wholesalers stock chips under a Celeron/Duron 800, or RAM chips less than 128Mb. They perceive that there is money to be made from companies, and not from supplying cheaper hardware to more "charatible" causes.

SA suffers from a "nothing but the best" syndrome, which affects development. It is generally unacceptable to provide second-class solutions as an interim measure while working on a long-term solution. This means that, for example, a project to get computers into schools will involve building a secure building for the computers (many poor schools are prefab or have degraded buildings), and the provision of networked multimedia computers.

Having said this, it is obviously not the way to go. There needs to be an attitude change and an acceptance of older technology, alternative technology or interim solutions.

Actually the availability of communications is not important in the use of computing in developing nations. Computers can be used "offline" as teaching aids, and this is probably where investment should be targetted. Education standards in SA are dropping, there is a massive adult illiteracy rate, and computing skills (required in many industries) are lacking.

An obvious and useful proposal would be to develop and mass produce cheap hardware which can run OpenSource software, and start developing (locally) teaching aids in all national languages (we have 11 of them :

Incidently ... the mining sector only accounted for 6% of GDP in 1999 (worldinformation.com), Tourism for 4% and agriculture for 4%. What makes SA an economic power in Africa is its NON-reliance on mineral resources.

The problem is not internet connection

[jsse]

Some of you say it's impossible to promote opensource without Internet access. In my opinion it's not their major problem.

Once I saw a documentary about SUN donating an UNIX workstation to an Africa country(don't recall which one, but it's so under-developed) for educational research. The major problem they've got is not being able to connect to internet, their problem is to get steady supply of electricity to boot up the workstation. :)

But the power of desperate users is unlimited! To solve the problem, they built a dynamo from a bicycle. It's bizarre to see how they use the workstation - someone is bicycling very hard while the operator types very very fast(No X, just CLI, sorry!).

I've never complaint my internet connection since. :D

(I'm also aware that South Africa is not like the other under-developed countries in Africa, just a thought. ^_^)