What Makes a Powerful Programming Language?

A not-so Anonymous Coward queries: "My company is about to start development on a new project, and I have to decide on a language and development environment. My boss gave me a set of criteria which needs to be filled: intuitive and easy to use IDE; simplified GUI design and event handling; advanced error handling; advanced object oriented design including multiple inheritance, abstract classes, and garbage collection; full support for operator and function overloading; and portable (at compile-time) across various platforms. I have already looked at C++, Java, C++, C#, Eiffel, and even VB.net; I may be missing something but as far as I can tell all of these languages are missing something from this list. Is there a language available that has all of these features? I thought that someone from Slashdot would be able to point me in the right direction?" If you were to design a language from the ground up, what features would you include and why?

Comments

Why specify language features?

[Anonymous Coward]

More importantly, what is the project, and why is your boss specifying language features rather than project design goals?

Simple.

[PsiPsiStar]

Hype! hype makes a language powerful! The IT departments are run on hype. It's a hell of a lot easier for business types to understand 'buzz' than actual code. Right? Of course right!

The boss probably already knows the answer ...

[jc42]

Well, I'd try to get your boss into a discussion with the (unstated) goal of trying to learn what language the boss has already decided is the correct answer.

When people have a long shopping list of specific details, it almost always means that they have decided and have set up the requirements so that only the one answer is correct.

This is, of course, a conventional way of doing "open" hiring or purchasing. You just write up the specs so that only one person or product can fit. It works just as well with software.

for starters

[Sebastopol]

Your query is so vast that it demontrates a complete lack of planning or thought. Post more details, or hire someone else to figure them out beforehand.

This is what pisses me off. If you would put some thought into the product and the design abstraction, this would be an easy question. Instead, people charge off with grandiose ideas and big buzzwords (event handling, GUI, object oriented).

People wonder why there is so much crap software out there. This is one reason: sitting around discussing the language without discussing the problem.

I know I'm being kinda mean, but it's how I feel when I read such a newbie question from someone claiming to be attempting such an important task. I hope this post lasts long enough for discussion before being modded down to -1.

Re:Operator overloading

[ubergnome]

Operator overloading is just fine. As long as you follow the logic of the other uses of the operator. Sometimes you don't even have to do that.

Look at the '+' operator for strings in the C++ standard library. That is definitely an overloaded operator, and it does something way different. I think that this operator is definitely a good thing (sure beats the pants off of strcat).

I think operator overloading is a good idea. Just use the power wisely.

Don't pick the language first, solve the problem!

[trenton]

You're in a great place because you can choose which language to use. Most aren't that lucky. Instead of choosing a language based on a list of random features, start thinking through the problem and think of language features that would make solving the problem easier. The language you choose will be a natural selection.

Making a list of neat features won't do you any good. It's this approach to problem that causes bloatware. If a product is guaranteed to solve all your problems, you can be assured, it will solve none. It's all marketing!

Python....load, debugging, portable, what more...

[CDWert]

Python has all you need, If I were to design a language from the ground up it would act and look alot like Python, that said, there is already something there and no need to push the edge of insanity writing my own language again, I did when I was younger, in the early 80's. No enough caffiene on the planet to try it again.

Python will, if designed properly handle any load you could want to throw at it, it is portable as it gets, its easy to debug.

I cannot imagine what you are writing, or your boss thinks youre going to write that needs all that in one place at the same time. My bet is this is a buzzword hyped dude that has no Idea of the actual functional requirments. He wants an IDE and RAD, Im assuming so any 12$ an hour lackey can help support it at a later date as well as speed initial development. If portablity is the least of your concerns(in short term) VB.net would be the choice. In about 2 years VB.net programmers will be like VB programmers are now....a dime a dozen. That has more value than you can imagine on a large scale project whose lifecycle is indeterminite.

Screw em all and write it in assy, dont let em see any progress and then unleash it upon them complete, debugging is easy, if its wrong it dosent run. Its portable, from same architecture to same architecture(snicker), it actually will scale(buzzword insert)BUT THE SINGULAR MOST IMPORTANT PART is Youll have a job for life, at whatever you want em to pay you to maintain it :)

Of course they're all missing something!

[Jerf]

Of course they're all missing something! No One Language can be all things to all people. In particular, "intuitive and easy-to-use IDE" and "simplified GUI" is a hard mix. (I'm not going to call Visual Studio intuitive.)

You probably ought to try to weasel more requirements out of your boss.

That said, the closest match to your problem is almost certain Python. The only "bullet point" missing is "abstract classes", but in Python, the term "abstract class" is nearly meaningless; they aren't necessary. But if it makes you feel better to create them, do so. Some people do for stylistic reasons.

Functions are overloadable, you just have to do it by checking types. For paying that price, you also get some cute stuff with *args and **kwargs (look at the docs for those things until you understand them), which can be lifesavers when you want them.

As for the "simplified GUI coding", you get *many* choices: Tk ships by default, and while ugly, is fast and effective for many uses. wxWindows is well-supported (in all senses of the word), looks native on all supported platforms, and is extremely flexible. (I'd rather program in wxWindows then MFC, even if I were doing a Windows only program! And it's a rare MFC program that couldn't be done in wxWindows.) Various IDEs are available for these things; you often don't need them. And there are many other choices as well.

If Python lacks the Hype Veneer and you think your boss cares about that, then you've probably got to go Java, along with the purchase of an IDE. You don't get simplified GUI programming, but I don't know of *any* hyped language that has simplified GUI coding.

Hold your horses!

[Hard_Code]

"My boss gave me a set of criteria"

Hold your horses! Have you really taken the time to understand the *problem* yet? This post is just a laundry list of various programming language features and buzzwords. Choosing a programming language is not like choosing a car, and just adding on all possible accessories and upgrades. More features does not a better language make. I'd have your boss clarify the reason for each and every feature (and yeah, "programmers are familiar with this" probably is a valid response - but there should at least *be* a response). Does your boss even know what multiple inheritence and operator overloading is, and why one would even want it? Until you can justify the features you want, there can't be a debate on "what is the most powerful programming language?". It's like "what is the best religion?", or "what is the best color?".

Also look at Delphi/Kylix (Object Pascal) and Perl

[ddkilzer]

A couple other languages/environments you may wish to look at are:

• Delphi 6/Kylix (Object Pascal)
• Perl 5 with ActiveState's IDE

I don't have much experience with Delphi 6/Kylix or Object Pascal, but Perl 5 will handle most of your requirements.

Personally, I would go back to your boss and ask why he needs all these features. The list of requirements sounds more like a buzzword-compliant list of programming language features that a typical PHB would come up with than a real requirements list. For example, if a design document hasn't been created, it's likely that this list of requirements is bogus.

NOTE: I found Cliff's question appended to the end of this story very confusing. It's orthogonal to the original question, at best. At worst, it's going to cause two entirely separate topics of discussion which will be difficult to distinguish when reading comments.

Let me offer a proverb...

[Lethyos]

"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

It's just plain silly to ask "what's the best programming language." That's like asking: "which is better, a hammer or a screw driver?" The reverse of the proverb is also true. If you have a diverse toolkit, and nothing but screws to drive, then everything in your kit looks like a screw driver.

It comes down to using the right tool for the right job. It's not a simple question to ask, mind you, but your question is too vague to be answered at all. If you are doing text processing, use Perl (ignoring the argument that Perl does everything, of course) or some type of stream editor. If you are writing an operating system, use C. If you are doing artificial intelligence, use Lisp or Prolog. If you're writing a document, use HT/SG/XML or LaTeX. Building a GUI app *really* fast? Use Tcl+Tk.

Let me rephrase your question with more specifics. "Which is the best programming language: Perl, C++, LaTeX, CSS, Japanese, or ASM?" That's nonsense (although everyone knows that Perl is better ;).

It still baffles me how such stupid questions get posted as Ask Slashdot topics. The editors are genuinely retarded.

Wrong question

[Lumpish Scholar]

You don't want a powerful programming language unless you have a significant budget (say, $2000 US and 1-2 months per person) to train all the would-be developers. The biggest problem with C++ is how little of it most alleged "C++ programmers" really know about the language! Java may be no better. (Larry O'Brien: "Claiming Java is easier than C++ is like saying that K2 is shorter than Everest.")

If I was picking a programming language from scratch, I would pick a very simple language, such as Python (which actually meets most of the boss's criteria) or Smalltalk.

Like most everyone else, I advise you to ask the boss what he really wants, or at least what's behind his wish list.

Java is the langauge you want

[DaveWood]

The two things it doesn't have that you "think" you want are multiple inheritance and operator overloading.

Multiple Inheritance: People claim that this isn't a good feature, but I disagree. I've run into times writing Java code where MI just obviously would be the right thing to do. However, A) these cases are rare, and B) there's always a workaround which is almost as good as the MI solution. In trade, not having MI has the added bonus of making your code simpler to understand, but most importantly, preventing people who think they know what they're doing (but don't) from using MI to make a complete mess of your model.

Operator overloading: I left the best for last. :) Operator overloading is, in my experience, a real nightmare. To be clear: it offers you nothing functionally. It's a purely cosmetic feature. People often like to write a String or Matrix class with a + operator. Well, I take only minor umbrage with Java's special + operator functionality for strings - it hides the underlying work too well (one simple character = potentially a lot of VM activity) - but I can live with it. Otherwise almost every case where an operator could be used is in some way or another ambiguous. This is the equivalent of picking a one-letter function name, with the added bonuses of syntactic complexity and obfuscation with existing arithmetic and logical metaphors.

I've seen and suffered through abuses of operator overloading often enough to become convinced that it's important not to have it, so that less-than-gifted programmers will never be tempted to use it.

So I say again, unless you're doing anything inordinately complex with audio or video, use Java. Or use a worse tool, and suffer like everyone else does. :)