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USAF Readies Laser of Death

An anonymous reader submits: "From the SkyNet Terminator Death Beam Dept...The London Telegraph is carrying this article about U.S. military plans to outfit AC-130 Spectre gunships with a chemical oxygen iodine laser (COIL) which can be used against personnel and materiel for lethal and nonlethal missions."

14 of 645 comments (clear)

  1. Only for physical targets, not people by mikeage · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "The special operations AC-130 Spectre gunship, whose conventional weaponry has been used to devastating effect since the Vietnam War, is to be fitted with a laser that can shoot down missiles, punch holes in aircraft and knock out ground radar stations."

    IIRC, use of lasers to kill/wound/maim/blind soldiers is illegal under international law. Not to say it's never done, but as a recongnized capability-- I doubt it. Besides, the article only says it'll be (intended to be) used against hard targets.

    --
    -- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
    1. Re:Only for physical targets, not people by thelaw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      the geneva convention's intention is to encourage "humane" warfare, or something in that vein. so, as we all know, you're not allowed to target noncombatants explicitly. but the weapons that you use on combatants during warfare have to be designed for the purpose of a "clean kill", i.e. not meant to maim. i guess the idea is that being maimed is like torture, so weapons that intend to maim should be banned, like torture should be.

      when the m-16 was first introduced, there was some controversy over the design. a bullet, when fired from an m-16, would tend to wobble as it flew, making it more messy when it hit a target. when it entered the body, it would tumble, rather than simply spin right through. i think there were some questions of geneva convention-compatibility early in vietnam, but i don't recall the outcome. they might have redesigned the ballistics, but i don't recall.

      that's just one example of the kill/maim distinction. hopefully someone else has another example.

      jon

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      -- http://www.cerastes.org
    2. Re:Only for physical targets, not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      also, you must use full-metal-jacket rifle rounds, which will do one of two things.

      At close range, it will pass straight through you, staying intact and puch a nice clean hole through both sides. At long range, it will fragment inside you, puching a whole through you big enough to piss through blindfolded.

      Hollow-point bullets, which are actually much more "humane" are banned because they work too well. (one shot, one kill)

  2. Re:Is this good or bad? by buzban · · Score: 2, Interesting
    it must be a good thing...

    The advantage of laser weapons is that they strike at the speed of light.

    This way, we'll put even less thought into decimating villagers and frienly troops along with the meanies. oh goody.

    on another topic: the USAF hopes to fit it to a whole range of manned and unmanned aircraft, such as the Predator reconnaissance probe, which is fitted with Hellfire missiles and has been used in CIA operations in Afghanistan.

    didja ever wonder about data encryption, wireless communications, etc. with unmanned craft? yipes...

  3. With Radar and Nearly Instant Re-Positioning... by Ieshan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Isn't this the most powerful weapon we're ever going to see on a battlefield?

    Think about it. The time to take to shoot down a wing of jets - five of them, say - is five times the time it takes to reposition the laser, fire, and acquire a new target. Maybe a few seconds.

    The Airforce might be useless. This would completely change warfare - obselete the modern armor which is dominating the battlefield; make the shield against the laser more neccessary than standard metal plating.

    It's scary, guys. The United States Military might become obselete by the technology it's procuring.

    1. Re:With Radar and Nearly Instant Re-Positioning... by IronChef · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It depends on the range of the weapon, which they are not saying, and the range of air-to-air missiles that can splash the plane, and the quality of the tracking system... I don't think this will be a superweapon. Just a super COOL weapon.

      This is just rehashed technology from the Airborne Laser anyway. They've been putting giant chemical lasers into Boeings for a while now, and the intention is to make it a widely-deployed weapons system for theater missile defense. Can't say for sure, but I bet the ABL has a much more potent beam.

      Not that the Spectre version isn't hella cool! Gives a new meaning to "light 'em up."

    2. Re:With Radar and Nearly Instant Re-Positioning... by drik00 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      sadly, the way this changes warfare was shown to us on Sept. 11. You wanna know how the wars will be fought? Thats how.

      ...which is ironic since we have a 50 year history of trying to make weapons that dont kill civilians, yet, if we use this technology, the only way an enemy would have to fight back is via terrorism. What have we gotten ourselves into?

      --
      Beer, now there's a temporary solution -- Homer Jay S.
    3. Re:With Radar and Nearly Instant Re-Positioning... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's probably true.

      There are a lot of specs missing from the description, things that are rather key to knowing what the thing could even be used for. Range, energy disipation over that range, maximum sustained rate of fire... Given the amount of energy it takes to make a truly dangerous laser, I wonder if the thing wouldn't run out of fuel after killing one or two tanks. That would make it pretty useless for that purpose.

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      The enemies of Democracy are
  4. Re:I don't see this as all the terrible. by David+P · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Perhaps the concern is over blinding soldiers, not killing them, kind of like with mustard gas of WWI, which would ruin a soldier's lungs, rendering him unable to fight.

    But yes, it's funny how you can't shine a laser at someone's eyes, but you'd get a medal for gouging them out with a knife.

  5. How does it work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    How does the mechanism of the chemical laser work? Does the combustion of Oxygen and Iodine naturally cause the lasing effect, or does there need to be a radiation stimulus, just like a CO2 or Ruby laser?

  6. No, that's the ABL by glrotate · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That is the ABL program: A big anti-ICMB laser on a 747. This looks to be quite diferent. This appears to be an anti-Stinger missle solution: Meaning the ability to knock down a missle fired at the plane itself.

    Hooray for the spooks!

  7. Re:Is this good or bad? by RazorJ_2000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't think that Bush has ignored the Geneva Convention. I do think that Bush has recognized the simple reality that adhering to the Geneva Convention does not make sense in the modern world of terrorism and unseen enemies. How can you expect to defend yourself if you're playing by your old set of rules and nobody else is bound to follow them as well? Simple, you can't.


    Now, without getting into a political debate, the reality of the situation is that the Geneva Convention was signed by a group of nations who formally recognized each other and formally agreed (generally) to be bound by a set of "honour" rules of engagement and warfare. Do you see any of the so-called terrorist organizations stepping up to the plate and agreeing to be bound by those rules? Heck, do you see any of these terrorist organizations actually having a majority representation in the countries that they are apparently trying to liberate (or whatever they're trying to do)? Simple answer, no. They know that they can't win by playing by the formal rules of engagement, so they don't bother. Why should the USA allow it's hands to be bound? It shouldn't.


    In a nutshell, if you want to hit somebody who's big then you can now expect them to hit back. The rules of engagement have now changed. Good for Bush. He's a dumbass, but a dumbass who's stepping in the correct direction.


    --
    pi=sigma{n:0-infinity}[(1/16)^n][(4/(8n+1))-(2/(8n +4))-(1/ (8n+5))-(1/(8n+6))]
  8. Can != Should by sam_handelman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm not raising moral objections here, but practical ones.

    Yes, okay, we now have a laser which really can be used to blow something up. Yippee, us.

    The people who spent truckloads of money to develop this turkey naturally want us to deploy it.

    Ask yourself: Does it have any advantages over a missile? Well, it's bigger, it doesn't go as far, it inflicts less damage, and it costs more. But it is a Laser (therefore the weapon of the future) and it does work at all.

    We could also outfit our ground forces with supersonic vibrating swords. This would work, you could kill people with them. Likewise, giant robots as were discussed in a previous slashdot article.

    However, the fact remains that all of these technologies, while Cool, are very much NOT the most effective means of achieving military objectives!

    These laser weapons are nothing but a white elephant for defense contractors, who have seen the end of the cold war erode their profits.

    The idea of using one of these things to shoot down a missile - which is a very difficult feat even using inherently practical weapons systems - is absurd.

    --
    The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
  9. Re:a moralist reply by PierceLabs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I hate to step into this, but if you read your history and perhaps some papers of the era - the opening years of WW2 were a lot like what happens in many of these countries we're policing. Who makes the US the cop? The American moral compass. We cannot just sit by and let butchers and criminals kill innocents while we play Madden on PS2! WW2 wasn't 'instant global warfare,' it was a lot of small things that grew because noone put them in check. In terms of your comment about pictures on TV - sorry, but the press in the United States is free and they are more often than not the people who discover and air these events (and then bashed for glorifying the activities). So if you believe that the government controls the press - it is you are naive my friend.