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What Were Soviet Computers Like?
kwertii asks: "Does anyone have any information on computing in the former Soviet Union? A Google search turned up this virtual museum, which has some good historical background on the development of early Soviet computer technology (a lot only in Russian, unfortunately) but not much on later systems. What sorts of architectures did Soviet computers use? Were there any radically different computing concepts in use, like a standard 9-bit byte or something? What kind of operating systems were common? How has the end of the Cold War and the large scale introduction of Western computer technology affected the course of Russian computer development?"
The reality is that the KGB was stealing American computer designs from the beginning. As Glastnost was coming into being, and the "west" was getting a look into how things worked inside the Soviet system, they discovered that they were running clones of the IBM 360's.
I've seen an interview recently with an ex-KGB big-wig who said he realized how bankrupt the Soviet system was as he learned how little they developed "in house" rather than copied from the west. The Soviets were always one or two generations of technology behind simply because they weren't inventing it.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
An an slightly different node, I found this link a while ago that discusses, in great depth, Sinclair Clones from teh late 1970's to the early 1990's.
Another thing I remember reading a long while ago was an article in "A+/Incider" magazine (and Apple II magazine) where the cover story was the giant headline "Red Apples"; in it they talked about a close of the Apple IIe that looked like a negative of the Apple IIe we know (black case, white keys), but otherwise was more or less the same -- compatible logic, just made somewhere else. I may even throw that coppy in my flatbed if there is enoguh interest.
If I had to guess, all but either very high-end or very early machine will be of the same designs as western counterparts, probably for engineering reasons because an engineer doesn't want to reinvent the wheel (or bitwise logic in this case) just to make machine to do word processing.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
http://rickman.com/brett/russian_computing/ -- also has bibliography to printed materials
The basic premise was that he was using punch cards, and the actual computer on which he was compiling and testing his programs was in a relatively distant city.
He would punch up a set of cards and mail them to where the computer was, which would take a week or two. When they got around to it, they would compile his program and print out a test run using input he gave them. This would take another week. The week or two return trip made the average round trip take a month.
Now if you had to wait one month to find out that you had missed a semicolon, wouldn't you be more careful?
Why is Grand Theft Auto a much more serious crime than Reckless Driving?
In the late 70s or early 80s ACM's "Computing Surverys" ran an article on Soviet computing. Here's what I remember:
The Soviets said that military computers were generally original designs.
Most of the commercial computers were either IBM 360/370 models diverted through 3rd countries (direct exports were prohibited) or the Soviet "Ryad" line. Ryads were 360/370 copies. Not having to worry about copyright andd patent issues, the East copied IBM mainframes directly. IBM engineers recognized an I/O problem with one Soviet model, since the IBM original had the same problem. Just as the 360 model development was split among groups in Poughkeepsie and Endicott, different Soviet Bloc countries were assigned development/manufacturiing responsibility for the copies.
Software was, of course, pirated OS/360. (Back in those days, software came with source.)
That's very politically correct of you. You show a tendency common to most PC types -- Don't let the facts get in the way of feel-good politics.
The Soviet Union didn't do very much independent computer design after the early 1960's. Various Soviet agencies and front organizations obtained IBM, Burroughs and Sperry-Univac mainframes and setup factories to manufacture spares and even a few backward-engineered copies.
The Soviet Union did not embrace information technology. It was a society that was essentially living in the 1930's. Heavy industry was the priority of the USSR, not semiconductors.
If you looked on the desks of Soviet desk jockeys in the late 80's, you'd find most offices to be non-computerized (like many western offices). The ones with computers had green screens, IBM or Apple clones. Engineers had Intergraph or Apolla stuff.
The truth isn't bigoted or ignorant.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
- "Computing in the Former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe"
- "Where did Soviet scientists go?"
- "Creator of the first stored program computer in continental Europe"
Not much, but you might find more for yourself by refining your search a little.--
Evil Attraction
You also may want to do a google search on the comp.arch newsgroup. I think the topic has been discussed there.
The Soviets reverse engineered a number of American designs (IBM 360, PDP-11). They also did some original designs for special applications.
Some of the work was farmed out to other Warsaw Pact countries, such as the GDR.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
This quote is from page 15 of the OpenVMS at 20 publication that Digital Published in 1997. The PDF is available from Compaq.
During the cold war, VAX systems could not be sold behind the Iron Curtain. Recognizing superior technology, technical people cloned VAX systems in Russia, Hungary, and China. After learning that VAX systems were being cloned, DIGITAL had the following words etched on the CVAX chip, "VAX...when you care enough to steal the very best."
"All I ever wanted was to see Larry Wall give Bill Gates a Perl necklace."
http://www.eisenschmidt.org/jweisen
i have a good friend who is from bulgaria, and there they mass-produced an apple IIe knockoff called the Pravetz. they reverse engineered the apple and started making their own version. He said that they ended up being more powerful than any of the apple II line. People like the Dark Avenger (ever had a real computer virus? he probably wrote it) grew up hacking these things. anyway, they are mentioned in a really good wired article about the Dark Avenger and the Soviet Bloc's more recent computing history, and Woz even has a picture of one on his website.
Those words were in Cyrillic (of course)... see them on the chip here!
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
The Soviet Union did not embrace information technology. It was a society that was essentially living in the 1930's. Heavy industry was the priority of the USSR, not semiconductors.
;-).
If you looked on the desks of Soviet desk jockeys in the late 80's, you'd find most offices to be non-computerized (like many western offices). The ones with computers had green screens, IBM or Apple clones. Engineers had Intergraph or Apolla stuff.
The USSR was indeed behind behind the west regarding advanced semiconductor technologi, but your anectdotical evidence can be misleading, since the USSR soviet economy was sharply devided into a civilian part (who got almost nothing) and a military who had first priority.
So even though the standard USSR office was pen-and-paper, the military complex would have access much more advanced technology.
IMHO, soviet military equipment since WWII to until the eighties, was often on par, if not better, than US equipment (especially missilies, tanks, infantery weapons, airplanes, though perhaps not avionics).
OTOH, civilian USSR equipment was always decades behind, what could be found in the west.
The truth isn't bigoted or ignorant.
I believe that a famous USSR newspaper was called "Pravda", meaning "The Truth"
- photo at the European Museum on CS and Technology
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article (including bibliography) at the Virtual Computer Museum
- discussion of ternary computing at American Scientist
One of those indicated it was circa 1958.There were some others, however I have mentioned the most popular ones.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.