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Red Flag Linux: Real, and Reviewed
Over at NewsForge (NewsForge is part of OSDN, as is Slashdot), Roblimo has posted his impressions of the long-awaited, much-ridiculed Red Flag Linux (English version). It may not be a big seller outside of the Chinese-speaking world (despite the available English-language install), but it's not a hoax, and it's available as an ISO for download. Update from Roblimo: I did not write the NewsForge Red Flag review. Matt Michie deserves all credit for this excellent work.
Unlike a Red Hat install, I was never prompted to create a user or set a root password. I had visions of having to crack my own installation to even login. I tentatively typed in root, and wondered if I could guess what a Chinese developer would set as a default password, when I was presented with a root prompt!
That's right, they don't set a root password, and seem to expect users will be running as root right from the start. That's surely not the best way to introduce a newbie into best practices.
ObDisclaimer: This is certainly not intended as flamebait, although it will probably be modded so.
Given the mindset of a totalitarian government -- that is to say, all ideas and possessions are ultimately the property of the oligarchy (or in China's case the gerontocracy) -- doesn't it seem logical that a default install for an OS endorsed by the government to be open to the world by default?
Seriously, if you want to be able to access any system in your nation, and you know the average user doesn't know thing one about security, this sort of tactic would be on page 1 of Information Control for Dummies.
Or this could just be me being paranoid again.
They that would sacrifice their
I don't mean to become flamebait here but shouldn't all the *nix people be dancing around a fire singing the praises of Red Flag and the chinese govt's decisions to use it?
I mean, it says something that the world's largest gov't decided to pick Linux instead of any other operating system (Cough Cough; The Beast of Redmond). Sure their Distro isn't going to be the best - it's their first try after all. But eventually they could really but something together that is a nice, good, stable distro. Consider if any of the other Distros had the resources of an entire gov't behind them.
Allright, the chinese gov't isn't anything close to being perfect, or even tolerable, but you have to give them credit for making the right choice here by using a customizable, and free, product. Far from isolating themselves on the Tech Front i'd say they where doing a pretty good job of jumping in.
One last statement: Since Red Flag is GPL that means that the entire source code has to be realesed etc, etc. Quite neat isn't it? That a totalitarian, communist country is being 'forced' (yeah I'd like to see em prosecute them for a violation of the GPL) to release it's precious code to it's next-gen op system. Quite an accomplishment.
From the Red Flag Linux home page:
ControLinux finds application in lottery machine's operating system.
From Roblimo's review of Red Flag:
Unlike a Red Hat install, I was never prompted to create a user or set a root password. I had visions of having to crack my own installation to even log in. I tentatively typed in root, and wondered if I could guess what a Chinese developer would set as a default password, when I was presented with a root prompt!
That's right, they don't set a root password, and seem to expect users will be running as root right from the start.
Hopefully they have better security measures in place on their "other" distributions!
instead of "the choice of oppressive gov'ts etc" why not point out that you are forcing the Chinese gov't to release it's source code and pointing out the benefits of a free market system?
About the GPL, they are following it, the code is freely available. So far at least.
Disclaimer: I do not work at, nor own, Wal-Mart stock. I just find this fascinating.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Nope. Modus operandi is the correct singular form. (Modi operandorum would be the plural version) - it translates to mode of operation. The -i is the genetive/possessive/"of" form. Latin's not just taking pseudo-English words and tacking "-us" onto them.
I don't want to be a flamebait either, but here goes my honest opinion.
Have you noticed that you are "demonizing" people who create your clothes for your, almost every material and immaterial possession you have is made in SWEAT SHOPS, and when you go to Walmart, you ask youself...
"boy, this is TOO expensive, I'd rather spend my dollar elsewhere"
Where the only way for the price to go do is for the NORTH AMERICAN stores to switch suppliers every month, thereby FORCING (along with other ILLEGAL tactics) the prices the be "cheapa"....
And most people refer to these people as:
(1) CHINA
(2) COMMUNIST
(3) "EVIl" (you're brainwashed by Bush)
(4) A billion people
When all they are, are just people just like me and you. In fact more humane than us, because we do more harm to them, then they have ever to us.
So please think things over,
Have a open mind, but most importantly an OPEN HEART. That's what opensource is REALLY ALL ABOUT.
Sincerely
A concerned and caring citizen
I have come up a few other players in this arena, competition is good. of course ;-)
btw, the one reviewed in the newsforge.com is 2.4 desktop. version 3.0 is coming (sorry, no more English and Traditional Chinese installation screens, only Simplified Chinese is available) and I've tried the beta CD, quite OK for normal use but some installation gliches.
Also... a Chinese-enabled desktop is possible (just click "Chinese" during install..) by the normal Debian/Mandrake/RedHat CDs.
When setting up our office in China last year, we decided to give Red Flag a try, as oppossed to using Mandrake (our new Sysadmin thought it might be easier for staff to learn). The idea appealed to us, because Mandrake requires a lot of tweaking to get Chinese input and display to work correctly. As all new employees had never used anything but Windows, we decided to install four distros on four different boxen and see which one they took to better:
1. Turbo Linux (has good Chinese support out of the box)
2. RedHat linux tweaked to support Chinese input, etc.
3. Mandrake linux tweaked to support Chinese input, etc.
4. RedFlag linux
To cut matters short, all workstations are now running Mandrake 8.1. For applications we are using the latest Chinese build of OpenOffice. Staff seemed to like Mandrake best, and it seemed to be most stable on the desktop. We share printers, disks, scanners, cameras accross the network, and once configured we have a very stable and FREE OS on every single desktop.
RedFlag was just a little too buggy (all gnome and kde config bugs, we did not play with it too long, as Mandrake was stable from install). We have not tried the latest version of Redflag, BUT, I have told our in house IT guys to keep looking at it.
One of our IT guys has been to the RedFlag main development center. It is government funded, but penetration in the Chinese market is low, because one can pick up a pirated copy of Win98 just about on any other street corner for just over 1$. The government is hoping that RedFlag will be a suitable option once they really crack down on piracy, and MS starts to bleed the country for OS and productivity software license fees.
The key for linux on the desktop in China is the same as the rest of the world--productivity applications. C'mon Open Office, we are all cheering for you!
Real men don't need signitures!!!
We may do a fair amount of harm to the average Chinese person indeed. The Chinese government, however, has done far worse in Tibet than we've done in China. Not that we haven't done it elsewhere (Central America, to say the least).
[...snip...]/ 2211255) that you
expressed distaste for "Red Flag Linux", the version of linux sponsored
by the Chinese government. They quote you as saying:
While I can somewhat understand your view, it seems dangerous to drag left/right-wing politics into Open Source, surely the more people who adopt the Open Source philosophy the better, irrespective of how much you might disagree with their politics. For example, if the Chinese government were to express a desire to adopt the ideals of the Libertarian Party, would you make an argument like: Clearly, such an attitude would be deeply flawed. Regardless of how much you dislike a group, surely their adoption of something with which you think is a good thing should be encouraged?I was somewhat surprised to see in a recent NewsForge article (http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/02/21
If you disagree, I would be interested in your response...
Sometimes, seeing is believing. In this case, reading is believing.
The article to which I am responding is written by a pro-China Chinese in Taiwan. You remember Taiwan. It's the place with the Chinese government that has manipulated the American nation into believing that Taiwan wants to be independent. So, we Americans give Taiwan billions of dollars of modern weaponry.
We should stop this nonsense. We should terminate the sales of weapons in order to save our own necks. Most Chinese in Taiwan support mainland China.
Take a gander at these facts about the Chinese in Taiwan.
Finally, let's address one of the weird claims by this pro-China Chinese from Taiwan. Many Chinese justify and support Beijing's suppressing human rights. Other Chinese, like this pro-China Chinese from Taiwan, claim that China honors human rights. That's a new tactic. (side note: Strangely, most Chinese -- including the children of members of the Chinese Communist Party -- fight with tooth and nail to stay in the United States of America.)
According to Amnesty International, China is a society that does not honor human rights. Who do we believe? A Chinese who does not support the idea that human rights are absolute and universal. Or. Amnesty International.
Frankly, I'll throw my support to Amnesty International.
By the way, one hell of a lot of Chinese play this game of calling the Falun Gong a political organization and, then, justifying their support of Beijing brutalizing and killing members of the Falun Gong. Guess what? Amnesty International correctly condemns this brutality and says that the followers of the Falun Gong should not be persecuted for their beliefs.
Getting back to the issue of "Red Flag Linux". Boycott it. Do not ever buy it. You will see many of you Chinese colleagues flocking to this product; they will even brag about it. They do not give a damn about the Chinese brutality in Tibet. But you, as an American (as a person of conscience), should not buy this product. You tell the Chinese what it means to be an American.
No, I haven't read Marx. Actually, I haven't read Marx for a very explicit reason: I'd like to be able to say to people, "I haven't read Marx." This is primarily a political maneuver. There is a fear of anyone who has read Marx in certain circles, and I'd like to be able to talk with those people.
Given that, I have a friend who's a died in the wool Russian communist, and we argue very frequently, and with much shouting and rivalry. I have asked him to explain Marx's ideas to me, at least as best he understands it, and I have asked others the same.
Here is basically what I have learned (that is relevant to this conversation): There are three stages. The first is capitalism, and people eventually feel oppressed. Then there is a revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat rises to power. This middle stage is called "Socialism". Then finally the dictatorship dissolves itself, and you end up in a Communism.
I asked my friend what the Communism stage is like, and after he described it to me, I said, "Well, that's an Anarchy!" Regional democratic control of things, stuff like that. So, I understand that, and I agree with that point.
The trick is that middle stage, and that's where Anarchists and Communists disagree. The Communists insist on a dictatorship in the middle. I've read some pretty scarry Maoist stuff in that respect. In fact, after the revelution in Russia, there were several communities that just skipped the middle stage. They went straight into Anarchism. But I have read that the "All power to the Soviets (Communities)" was betrayed, and they were taken, by force, into the State Communism. Because apparently the theory demanded it. They couldn't just go right into an Anarchy, they had to belong to the State first.
Anyways: This is how Marx has been described to me, and this is what I read, and how I interpret it.
As far as I can tell, power is never given up readily. It doesn't matter who's taking it, or receiving it, or whatever; It's just like the One Ring from Mordor. It's addictive, and terribly dangerous.
No "Revolution of the Proletariat" for me.
I don't know; Maybe I'm wrong about Marx. Maybe he didn't actually say that there should be those three stages. I haven't read him; This is just hearsay. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I should note- My Communist friend, who I spoke about earlier- he believes that the third stage, the Anarchy, what he called "Communism"- he thinks it's a mistake. He thinks that a government of the proletariat should rule. He thinks that it should never disband it's power. He is, basically, a Facist. He believes that a strong and powerful government should rule everything, and just "be nice".
Well, I don't know; There are a handful of Fascist systems that have worked. For example, Thailand is a Monarchy (not exactly facist, but it's close), and they have a great thing going- for the time being, with the current Emporer. No sarcasm- the people there really Love him, and with good cause; He's been, from what I understand, a fair and good guy. Everyone hates the congress, but they take their Emperor very seriously.
So I suppose if you get the good king out of a million, you're all right. But the vast majority are bad, and state communism, state capitalism, state whatever- I don't trust.
I've rambled too much.
Chinese constitution proscribes and limits the powers and reach of the government. Conversely, a totalitarian government has no limits (hence the name 'totalitarian').
The judicial system in China is dysfunctional. Without a functioning legal system, the government is effectively totalitarian, however many laws it has written on the books. See Prosecuting the Defence
The Chinese enjoy nearly every individual right the American does: freedom of speech, of worship, of belief, of assembly
Really?
I have great hope in the progress and future of China. The Chinese government has chosen economic development over political development, which I believe is a sound strategy. But China's problems shouldn't be whitewashed.