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New HDTV Encryption Obsoletes Sets
Brian Weatherhead writes "I wrote an article, detailing the MPAA's control over your HDTV. Their new standards will make any HDTV bought before 2002 obsolete!
Consumers will be upset to say the least." Talks
about the different formats for video signals, and
copy protection methods for those signals. And yes,
if this goes down, anyone with an HDTV without DVI input
could very well be watching 480p signals when HDTV
standardizes. Fortunately at the rate this stuff has
been happening, those TVs will long since have died.
But one thing is for sure- with the DMCA, and these
new video formats, PVRs could become a thing of the
past.
I mean, 99% of the time my TV is off. Why do I need HDTV to watch it collect dust.
I'll never pay for an HDTV and I can't afford one. So why do I need to pay out my wahzoo for one of eighteen methods of viewing HDTV?
I'd rather go to Europe and watch my stuff on PAL. At least PAL is affordable and widely available and also has a much better picture than NTSC.
HDTV will just suck too much to gain any viewing pleasure from it.
No kidding? Anyone with any technical savy knows that there is virtually nothing that the MPAA nor any other entity can do that can effectively control the dissemination of information at this point in history. Seems this guy is just parroting what is taken to be obvious around here - the traditional content provider business model is dead, or at least mortally wounded. Must be a Katz deciple.
On the plus side, this article may actually inform more people besides the
Geez - I'm sounding like Katz too. Maybe he's right? Naaaa....
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
well the day i am forced to give in to a digital HDTV signal because no more broadcasts are made on analog, or no more analog tvs are to be found, is the day I throw out my old tv and build my library of classical liturature.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
I agree 100% TV is lame. You should be able to project whatever image you want on what ever display device you have available. My personal hope had been that computer companies would infiltrate the TV market and start producing more display devices for projecting computer/tv images onto walls...etc..
The way to break the MPAA is for a different industry to come and provide the public with something better/more versatile than TV.
Almost all HDTV's sold today still have analog component video inputs. The only ones (maybe) not susceptible to this are the sets with internal HDTV tuners. Since the link between the HDTV decoder and the display is not accessible, it doesn't need to be encrypted. (at least that's the logical conclusion.. Noone would claim that logic governs the existing requirements).
Contradicting this stance on encryption, JVC and a few of the studios just announced last week that they will be selling HDTV movies on D-VHS tapes this year. The content on the tape is copy protected, but the link to the display is plain old unencrypted component video.
Also, the argument they make to justify this requirement is that they don't want people to be able to make "perfect digital copies" of their movies. That's very reasonable, I am fine with that. But, component outputs are ANALOG. To record a movie via the analog outputs does not create a perfect copy. And the equipment to do so is not cheap or accessible. How many of you have seen a VCR capable of recording a VGA output? That's what would be needed (in fact, the output of my RCA HDTV decoder is VGA).
DVI is solving a problem that does not exist. They try to put spin on it & represent it as a benefit to the consumer. But, that is the opposite of the truth. On my tube based HDTV, component or VGA inputs are capable of sending an image better than the set can display. There is no quality advantage. It only adds cost / complexity / and obsoletes a lot of hardware.
In fact, HDTV owners are often some of the biggest movie fans, trying to get the best quality possible for their movie viewing. And the movie industry says "screw you"! The movie industry is screwing their biggest supporters because supporters are demanding more than ever before. I was perfectly content watching commercials before I got my Tivo. I only bought it so I could watch tv shows at my leisure. I had no idea I would become addicted to the control I now have over my tv. If DIVX (Circut's City's format) was introduced before videotape... it might have take off. We would have never known the power of ownership. Once you've left the matrix, there's no going back. The movie, tv and music industries are all fighting loosing battles. I don't think anyone knows for sure how this will end, but one thing's for sure... most of us are not going back.
It doesn't even have to be viewable to be recordable. Anyone with a DirecTV Tivo is doing everything necessary today to work with an encrypted or compressed video stream. The DirecTivo boxes take the unadulterated downlink signal right off the receiver and spew it onto the hard drive. It's only decoded during playback.
It's a no-brainer to record the HDTV signal, regardless of its format, and save all the bits, and then stream them out later in time shifted form to the HDTV receiver.
Of course, all the encryption scheme would have to have is some sort of time based encoding synced with the TV's clock to render time shifted playback impossible, but how smart have the industry protocol designers been so far?
Oops! They're reading this post! We're doomed now.
(And of course, it presupposes that people can set the clocks on their TVs. Given the number of flashing "12:00" displays on the world's VCRs, this doesn't seem likely...)
Shut up and eat your vegetables!!!
No.. this is not correct.
The first example of this threat is satellite TV. DirecTV. Almost all HDTV decoders today also do DirecTV. These boxes carry a warning saying they can down-res the signal if the copyright holders choose. So, when DVI is set as the standard, they tell HBO & DirecTV, and they flip the switch. After that, my HBO-HD is no longer 1080i, it is now 480p.
Broadcast TV is another matter. I think that broadcast TV will not be effected by this. But, given the history of this stuff, I am not willing to assume that.
sorry if this isn't very organized... but here's how i feel...
the movie industry is actually worth my money.
maybe the actors are overpaid, and there are scores of shitty movies...
...but...
i'd drop $15 for a good DVD over a good CD any day.
why? hundreds of people put their effort into making one movie, while only a hand-full put their efforts into making a cd. not only that... but a movie is more engrosing than a cd will ever be because you're using both visuals and sound.
what about fair use, you cry? give me one good example where you *need* to copy a movie that you own. i can think of a few for music, namely transfering music to another format to be portable, such as an mp3 device. but what about movies?
finally... be realistic here... you can bet your sweet ass that someone will make a box which strips out whatever encryption they throw into this new movie medium --> tv format.
(side note) it's funny how the networks are so against PVRs, yet you see their commercials ON TELEVISION. funny to see that networks will help pimp the product, but hate the errosion of their business model as well. that's hypocracy at its finest.
Like my previous posts, the big question I am asking myself since 2 years about USA: WTF?
:).
They are doing EVERYTHING to kill their own buisness. They put crazy protection schemes that screws up joe nobody's CD in his old CD player, they do everything to kill online music sharing instead of building a successful buisness model on top of it, they put up stuff like DMCA that upsets just about everyone exept large corporation that don't even think before publicly using hot terms like "terrorist" to describe some developpers, and now, with such an announcement, they simply WACK in the face the people WITH MONEY (because, you NEED money to buy a half decent TV with hdtv support, and you need LOADS of it to buy a decent screen size with HDTV support). What message are all these moves sending to the consumers?
"We can't decide on a standard, but be an early adopter with only 1% support of channels for the technology you payed good money for, and we'll make it obsolete even before getting to 2%"
"We want your money, once we have it, we don't give a rats ass about you anymore, get on with it"
And the most lame but starting to become excusable: "Well I've got ripped once, twice, now I'll support the piracy system because I have to buy one hacked hardware and I don't have to deal with this shit no more!"
Protecting content is one thing, I had nothing against DVD being encrypted BEFORE becoming public and mainstream, at least then, NOBODY was had, everything was "standard" and you knew that it would probably take something like a new format before everything you bought got obsolete, and that new format would be backward compatible like dvds are to CDs.
TVs aren't cheap like DVD players, and especially HDTV units with decent size and features. If this passes, you just gave a go to pirates to make devices to "clean the signal off that dirt and make it work on older sets" (or circomvention device under the DMCA I guess), for a totally legit use. You'll have fun in court because IANAL but I'm sure there's going to be a big grey zone if such an issue arises.
God I'm glad I'm living in Canada sometimes, we have a clown as a prime minister, but at least they aren't pulling that kind of pathetic moves on us, yet
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
DIVX was cleanly destroyed by a concerted early-adopter-consumer effort which led to a total lack of support for the format. I remember the rather quick decline amongst million dollar ads that was due to nothing more than those "in the know" informing Joe Q Public; "DIVX? Don't buy that, it's worhtless." I don't see why that couldn't happen here. Make a big stink beforehand; you'll never buy a set that supports this. It's worthless and forces the user to follow corporate mandates. Then make sure you tell anyone who'll listen. No money-hungry corporation will be able to resist for long; one or more will break ranks and offer non-DVI devices that (hopefully) will sell like hotcakes while the DVI boxes rot on the shelves.
In a battle between PVRs and HDTV, PVRs will win. Much as I want the quality of HDTV, if I can't watch it when I want to, or even when I can, then it doesn't exist. And my family is much less techo/videophile than I am --- quality really doesn't matter that much to them.
"The electronics industry kept this secret under wraps as long as they could. "
If this is the case, wouldn't consumers be able to file a class action lawsuit? They should, and it should cost all involved dearly. Possibly, it should even be severe enough that the government should dissallow the use of encryption by the broadcasters.
At the rate this is going, I think people may need to consider government oversight of the mpaa, and to a limited extent, the studios. Although that goes against many capitolistic ideals, these groups seem to embrace every thing bad about capitolism. It sure wouldn't hurt the quality of media -- tv sucks so bad, I'm surprise people aren't embarrased to be in the industry, The stupidity most programs amazing. Very few movies are worth the price of gas to get to a theater, and most musicians are less creative than a person making $10 an hour on an assembly line.
Another option would be to do it the right way -- independant artists selling their wares via the net. Remove the current media houses from the process entirely. This will allow the true artists to not get lost in the shadows of mass marketted corporate garbage we are currently exposed to.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
You're right, but the holy grail to the MPAA is to do pay per view, and right now, they believe its a real possibility.
I can't say I blame them.
They think you'll pay $3 to watch something, everything all the time.
Technically it will work if they can force everything to respect that encryption. That's why they hate PC's. PC's are the magic box that can do anything.
Companies hate for consumers to have PCs. That's why they essentially want to ban the use of PC's as we know it. Yes, in the MPAA's future, your PC will only allow you to do things that the MPAA wants it to do. I'm not making this up.
The entertainment industry is doomed, but their legacy will be one of completely control of our lives because they're protecting their right to profit.
God help us all.
Remember how good satellite used to look? Now look how crappy it is now as they overcompress the channels to squeeze more and more in the same bandwidth! I make SVCD off DVD-rips that look better than most content I see on the dish!
:)
HDTV looks fine now, but I bet it will start to suck as the same overloading happens.
How many of you have seen a DVD played back on a good progressive DVD player that does 3:2 pulldown at 480p ??? It is not much worse than 1080i for watching movies! I have seen same movie on my HD receiver and then watched it on my DVD player and there is not much difference.
Until movies start being shot on something other than film, HDTV is overkill for most.
But I am sure someone will come out with a box that converts this encrypted interface and outputs it to component video as 1080i/720p
BTW, I have disconnected my Model 6000 BEV receiver for a model 5100 with PVR since last September - that is how much I care about HDTV!
What a timely story. Earlier today, I was just going out to purchase an HDTV monitor (Toshiba 36HFX71) because my old 20" Sony died. I figure I might as well get an HD model, since they are only like $800 more than a similar flat-screen standard-definition set.
/. and saw the initial story shortly after it was posted. I read the article and decided I don't want to get one now. I was going to get a dandy new DVD player to go with it, but I guess Hollywood will have to get by without me purchasing movies, now.
However, before leaving I just happened to check
It seems I keep watching less and less TV, and fewer and fewer movies. I'm sure these new "standards" will only help me reclaim more time.
It's amazing that in their greedy quest for money, they actually deter me from giving them more!
I don't know, but it works for me.
I like to watch TV, but frankly it's not worth jumping through lots of hoops to do. Television content doesn't have enough brains put into it to really be worth all this encryption bs. If a show I want to watch is on a crummy timeslot, and I'm not allowed to record it, that's the Telelvision Industry shooting themselves in the foot. They are better off making it easier and easier for people to watch when they can, instead of trying to limit it. It's bad enough I have to be at my job by a certain time, it's bad enough I have to be at the doctor's by a certain time, being in front of my television at a certain time is not the type of shackles I want to place on myself.
Sorry TV Industry, you need better content before you can convince me I need to be punctual.
"Derp de derp."