Every Road a Toll Road

Great Britain is looking at a couple of different proposals for "universal road pricing", making every public road a toll road via GPS and black boxes in vehicles. There are also articles by the main proponent of universal tolls, and an editorial from the paper suggesting higher gas taxes instead.

Comments

A great idea, if people can accept it.

[Lionel Hutts]

A column in the New York Times (you know the deal) proposes the same thing for this fine city. I think it's a great idea. A gas tax is far less efficient: it will over-encourage (economically) inefficient fuel efficiency improvements, and won't have other good properties, like encouraging people to seek out less-congested roads or travel at less-busy times.

There's a separate reason for distance-based charges: auto insurance. Every car on the road, especially a busy road, imposes a large externality on the others: even drunk drivers are mostly harmless even to themselves if they're lucky enough to stay off busy streets. (It takes two to tango in most accidents, in other words, even if one of them is more "at fault" legally or morally.) Charging for car insurance by the mile, rather than the year, would get more cars off the road and reduce accidents for all of us.

Long live corrective taxes!

US already taxes commercial truckers on mileage

[BenJeremy]

IIRC, the U.S. DOT has truckers log their mileage in states, and they pay road taxes based on their travel. This is why they don't pay gas taxes.

It seems to me that the British plan is flawed.... the expense of outfitting cars with the "Black boxes" would cause a bigger hit than it would be worth to most people.

Of course, this is the same country that taxed TV viewing, so what can you expect from the crazy socialists there.

For those too lazy to read...

[weave]

Typical, loads of comments before reading the articles...

• U.K. already has the highest "petrol" tax in Europe and dare I say, probably the world.
• The proposal includes dropping the fuel tax by upwards of 12p a liter (that's about U.S. 65 cents a U.S. gallon).
• This is to discourage peak period driving. The duty on non-peak travel would be minimal or even free so during off peak times and rural areas, cost will be less to drive.
• The most expensive part of road building is to build for peak capacity. Those using the roads instead of transit during peak times and hence causing the greatest cost to support are being asked to pay their fair share.
• A better less opinionated piece from BBC News
• My opinion: UK is in a jam because their fuel taxes don't go to support just roads. It is used to pay for tons of social and other programs as well. If their fuel tax, as high as it is, was used to pay for roads, the M25 would be a double stack the entire length for example, and congestion wouldn't be so much of a problem. They are trying to get off on the cheap IMO... The privacy aspects of this are damn scary as well...

Re:For those too lazy to read...

[fleabag]

As a driver in the UK, I'm reasonably well qualified to comment....

1) The current UK tax regime punishes the ownership of cars, not their use. Once you have paid for the car (+tax), insured it (+tax), paid for the "road fund licence" (==tax), the cost of the petrol is trivial. Simple calculation: you pay £20K for a car, you will lose approx £10K in 3 years. It will cost you about £0.7K to insure - so your annual bill is about £3K. By comparison, £3K buys you a LOT of petrol, even at UK rates. The figures are much worse if you have a company car - the tax on these is getting silly.

2) Once you have decided to own the car, then the decision to use it rather than public transport is a no-brainer. I did a 260 mile return trip last weekend: cost of petrol £67 (OK, so it's a 4.2 litre engine....), cost of the rail fare for 2 of us: £120.

3) Certainly in the south east of England, there is no such thing as "peak-time". I have been stuck in jams at 2am. It's insane.

4) The people planning this need to do some maths. There are about 10m cars in the UK (guess). The control box in the car will cost at least £100. (£1000 million spent). The cost of running it will be at least £100 per annum (another £1000 million per year). Those kind of figures buy a lot of trains.

5) Just how will law enforcement work? Say I cover the beacon in tin foil. Will the black helicopters pounce on me as soon as I get the car out of the garage? The police in the UK can't deal with stolen cars, let alone "cars that don't transmit a particular frequency".

6) Public transport is a shambles. When you drive, you are at least guaranteed a seat. You may be stuck in a jam, so your journey time may be longer than expected. Taking the train, you may not get a seat, and the journey time is no less reliable.

I almost hope that something as daft as this happens - because its implementation will expose the incompetence of the politicans (of any flavour) who claim to run this country.

Re:What about the poor?

[pnuema]

That's not actually the way it works, even in Connecticut. Yes, the gas tax is intended to support the roads, but the roads are actually paid for by bond issues funded out of the state's general coffers. The gas tax goes to pay the bond issues, and typically only a portion of it. The rest comes out of the state treasury.

Re:What about the poor?

[Teun]

For years the Dutch governement has studied a similar system.
But they could not find an affordable and reliable technology.
So now they propose a charge for distance covered regardless wich road you're on.
Only the time of day will be recorded and influence the charges.
If the Brits pull this off it'll be nice for Dutch car owners like me, as I make at least half my kilometers on foreign roads I'm realy pissed off at having to pay Dutch tax while abroad!

As an info for the Americans reading, in Europe these schemes are generally sold on the "Environmental" ticket as they hope it'll get you out of your car into public transport.
And as the UK has one of the most backward train systems in Europe this is a challenge....

Re:What about the poor?

[Mr. Slippery]

Maybe you didn't notice but inner cities in the U.S. and many other countries are economic wastelands.

True enough.

The only way to escape is to get to a real job outside those areas. That requires a car for most.

Or better mass transit.

I don't know where you got the idea that the poor don't own cars.

I've had friends on welfare, and have witnessed their transportation woes in trying to deal with either the expense of vehicle ownership, or the very poor local mass transit system.