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Interview with David Faure of Mandrake & KDE

JigSaw writes: "OSNews features an interesting interview with David Faure, the french KDE developer who works for Mandrake Software. His code can be found on Konqueror, KFM, KWord and he is also the main bug hunter for KDE. David talks about KDE 3's enhancements and speed improvements, the future of KWord, the debugging tools under Linux, and even Gnome2, .NET, MacOSX and Mozilla."

18 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. I actually enjoy the competition... by Archie+Steel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...between GNOME and KDE. Despite what some Windows fans may claim, I don't think it's detrimental to have two leading desktop managers for Linux. As I see it, the competition is really pushing the two development teams to outdo themselves. Healthy competition -- as long as it does not translate into flame wars on the Internet -- is a good thing, and we're all the better for it. I mean, look at how the UI for Windows has evolved in the past five years (and I'm not talking about eye-candy here - yes, alpha channels are cool, but it does not add any kind of usability)...It seems obvious to me that MS could use a little competition on the desktop before its GUI stagnates further.

    (Hmm..."stagnate further"...is that an oxymoron?)

    --

    Reminder: find a new sig
    1. Re:I actually enjoy the competition... by TheReverand · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True. But on the other hand, try explaining to the average Windows user that they have to change the themes they're using in at least two places (gtk and Qt) for it to work. Oh, and of course your favourite theme for one set isn't available for the other.

    2. Re:I actually enjoy the competition... by JanneM · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hopefully, a common theme distribution mechanism will eventually surface.

      Meanwhile, I find that I use very few KDE apps on my desktop, but when I do, I'm not bothered by the different look compared to the rest of my apps. Far more important would be to get a consensus on keybindings...

      /Janne

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    3. Re:I actually enjoy the competition... by neuroticia · · Score: 3, Interesting

      First: The average Windows user is highly unlikely to swap OSes in the first place. They use what came on their computer. "Hey dude, want to upgrade that toaster of yours to be able to handle bagels?" Uhm. no.

      Second: I have both KDE and Gnome installed on the computers that I manage, and I allow the users to choose which to use, they always choose one based on their first 10 minutes of impression, or even based on which one I show them first. "Yeah, that's fine." They do not want to learn the workings of two window managers, one is hard enough for the "average user".

      The choice that is afforded by having both Gnome and KDE is great--Depending on the work habits of the individual they'll find one of the two more comfortable and gravitate towards it. Applications work under both, so that's not really a deciding factor.

      -Sara

    4. Re:I actually enjoy the competition... by ChaosDiscordSimple · · Score: 5, Informative
      But on the other hand, try explaining to the average Windows user that they have to change the themes they're using in at least two places (gtk and Qt) for it to work. Oh, and of course your favourite theme for one set isn't available for the other.

      I expect the average Windows user would take it pretty well. Your average Windows user is used to dealing with software that has private theming/skinning support (WinAmp, Windows Media Player) and software that ignores the global theme settings and does its own thing (most CD burning software, Cable modem branded Internet Explorer, RealPlayer, QuickTime). Your average Windows user is used to Microsoft changing interface styles leaving a glaring difference between new and old apps (addition of gradient title bars (originally on MS Office only), the new XP widgets).

      Many software developers feel the need to be arty and throw the standard Windows interface out the window. It's unfortunate, (It hurts usability and accessability), but it's the current situation. Windows is no better than Unix with X-Windows. The only way to get highly consistent theming in Windows is to use Microsoft applications exclusively. To get highly consistent theming under Unix, pick either Gnome or KDE and stick with it.

    5. Re:I actually enjoy the competition... by amix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While I agree competition is good I find it important, that competition, once it has produced enough "critical mass" gets joined into both environments as a base, a standard.

      However, I am a little sad to see the way things seem to work:

      I hope this won't get interpretated as a troll. It is just a listing of negative impressions I have and feel they sting me.

      On the one side we have many "conservative" developers (which I have sometimes the feeling is especially valid for KDE folks(who do not want to change too much, instead stay with the old and enhance it, read interview, and now I am going on thin ice, since KDE has some nice innovation built in ;-)) Of course, this conservatism brings the stability we all desire and which I enjoy daily as a user who prefers KDE due to stability over Gnome. On the other side we have "Theme-Junkies" who are mainly idealizing about the surface..just have a look what topic it needed over at Gnotices to address a joint-effort of Gnome and KDE : Common theme-engine.

      I am really into Eye-Candy myself but it is not what makes my work being done. I see there are many MANY more issues both teams should address in a joint-venture:

      • Inter Process Communication on application-scripting level. Let's face it, most applications come with their own scripting support. For Gimp and XChat you can use either Python or Perl. For Emacs you can use emacs-lisp. Others use Tcl. And this is all nice, but is there a common Linux-Scripting API ? Something like ARexx was on the Amiga (not really an API but a powerfull language for any application) or WSH (Windows Scripting Host, the precedessor of .NET if I dare to say) on M$ Windows ? I think the desktops would be the first place to define such a thing, because IPC macroing is mostly a users/powerusers thing and they are the ones who get addressed by any desktop at most. There is more to user-level IPC than Drag&Drop.(And I am not talking about "Word-Macros",mind you ;-))
      • How many MIME-definitions do you have !? Uh, right, and how cool it was to take the Window$ approach of identifying files by their extensions...I found no place yet neither in Gnome nor KDE to identify files by a match against certain rules...
      • I am in need for global keyboard shortcuts.
      • I want applications to start implementing their functionality as exportable (to the scripting host) commands, adding the additional benefit, that the user can fully (!) customize all menus and keyboard- and mouse-events. This is configurability ! Not the fact, that I can set some themes...(both Desktops at least allow for global keyboard definitions per desktop system, I know).
      • How many contact lists do you have ? I have one in KMail (is up quicker than Evo and KDE's default), one in Opera (adding while surfing) and one in Evolution. Cool ? Not ! And the same goes for bookmarks of the browsers. Yes, I use Opera mainly but sometimes I just use Konqueror or Mozilla. The import/export is not enough.
      • I want a common base !(earth shakes ;-))

        Now, I, as a user and developer, do that movement, that the ballet-dancers do (and which I lack the english expression for), that moment when they have their legs completely spread apart while touching the ground. I got some training in this myself, I touch the "Desk's Top" but it hurts me often, still.

        I know this ain't easy. There have been huge flame-wars, not so long ago between both teams, software-fidelity is some sort of spiritual believe...(Emacs vs. Vi, KDE vs, Gnome, Windows vs. RestOfTheWorld, etc.). A slight hope on the horizon could be the Linux Standard Base LSB. In any case some head must be found both sides trust and we could have M$ struggle also on the desktop within four to five years. I tell you !!! :-D

        Also, I am pretty sure, this all will happen sooner or later. But I find it disturbing to see not much sophisticated movement below the surface (which, in addition, would be quite easy to implement) and users wanting theme-engines and "the-looks congiguration" mainly.

      --
      Hello?? Fred?! Is this you?
    6. Re:I actually enjoy the competition... by JabberWokky · · Score: 3, Informative
      These are all KDE centric questions - not because I am saying Gnome dosen't have them, but just because I know KDE does.

      Inter Process Communication on application-scripting level.

      That's what DCOP is. You can even script via shell scripts... or tie in with just about any language (C, C++, Python, etc). It uses X to communicate, and the C bindings are being rewritten (right now, although they don't require any sort of GUI, they require you to link to Qt... this dependancy is being removed).

      I found no place yet neither in Gnome nor KDE to identify files by a match against certain rules...

      Right click on a file, and choose "Edit File Type...". Or, if you don't have an example file, do into the Control Center, and choose "File Manager, File Associations". Or go to Settings in Konqueror, "Configure Konqueror", and you can pull up the same "File Associations" panel that is in the Control Center.

      I am in need for global keyboard shortcuts.

      Well, if you mean global in the environment, you can go to the Control Center/Look and Feel/Key Bindings. There are settings for Global Shortcuts (like launching an app, changing desktops, etc), Sequences (a la emacs - these are being improved for KDE3), and Application Shortcuts (Copy, Paste, Print, Save, etc.). The Application Shortcuts obviously don't apply to Gnome apps, but the rest do (including the really nice "Alt-F2 to run a command"), even when the Gnome app has focus.

      I want applications to start implementing their functionality as exportable (to the scripting host) commands

      That's how KDE is fundimentally built... that's what KParts is. Konqueror is not an application - it's just a KPart container... there's almost no code other than things like saving window position, etc. As different KParts are loaded (possibly in different frames) the UI (like menus and toolbars) changes. Load a video into an app, and the video play controls appear, even though the app itself knows nothing about playing a video. KOffice is an app that looks like Outlook - icons down the side for KWord, KSpread, etc. It embeds the app inside the main window.

      In addition, you can even use DCOP to alter the UI in some apps like Konqueror (use bash to change your menus).

      How many contact lists do you have ? I have one in KMail (is up quicker than Evo and KDE's default)

      Interesting that you say that - KDE only has one contact list. All apps access it. You can even, in KMail, choose which interface you want to use for it... there are several little apps that are front ends for this universal contact list, and you can choose which one you want to use on a per app basis.

      I'd imagine that Gnome has similar features - but they are different. Just as Windows and Mac have different formats for communication, scripting and binaries. The key to remember is that these two projects are building more than just an interface - they are building structured, logical tools to build applications. With KDE3, nice things like data-aware widgets and database-agnostic connections are introduced... stuff that is *hardly* "eye-candy" or "useless themeing". That's what the rush is for - to make the best platform for quick and easy development of powerful and flexable applications - because, in the end, that's all that people use.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
  2. he hit the nail on the head with CUPS by Ween · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that the print side of Linux is still very very lacking in ease of use and setup. Theres really no reason for this, especially when I can install Mandrake and have a nice wysiwyg gui ask me a bunch of questions and things just work (for the most part). CUPS should just come with something this powerful itself (and yes, im aware of the web interface, but it lacks.. bad).

    --


    Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt --Abraham Lincoln
    1. Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS by garcia · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I very much agree. I am pretty well versed in userland apps and setting them up (samba, etc) yet CUPS was a pain in the ass, a real big pain in the ass.

      Anytime I have to sit here and seriously think about what I have to install just is not right.

      An additional complaint is that my HP960c still prints color like all-hell. I have to print over the network from my Win98 laptop if I really want to print some sort of color page if I want it to look at all like it should.

      printtool worked wonders for my HP400 but not for this printer. Old printers aren't around anymore. We need some real support for some real printers :(

    2. Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS by jonathan_ingram · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We need some real support for some real printers :(

      Just about every Epson is supported very well with the gimp-print CUPS drivers. This is because Epson printers are not stupid win-printers, like many of the new HP's, and because the Epson printer language is quite well documented and understood.

      So, real printers are supported. Terrible printers aren't.

    3. Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS by garcia · · Score: 3, Interesting

      using CUPS, using Debian. Still looks like shit when it prints color.

      print to the printer in color using Windows, then print again using Linux. Tell me what you see.

    4. Re:he hit the nail on the head with CUPS by scotch · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Calling HP Printers terrible is plain stupid, elitist, and damaging to the progress of Open Source

      I disagree. Calling bad hardware "terrible" is neither stupid, elitist, or particularly damanging to Open Source (though this is more of a linux issue than a general Open Source issue). Here's why: supporting every single piece of hardware takes time. Most of this time is given freely by volunteers although some is supported by commercial distributions. Every piece of hardware someone chooses to support results in other hardware they don't support. If the hardware in question is poorly designed, has a bad interface, poor documentation, or some completely braindead feature like being a WinPrinter, then that hardware is going to probably take more time than it deserves.

      This is hardly elitest or stupid or damaing to Open Source - this is reality. We don't have infinite resources. If you want to help with printers in particular, donate your time, or buy a distribution that is working on the problem.

      People like you are the reason that Linux advocates are seen as belligerant pompous assholes. The claim that the print support in Linux sucks is true until HP printers are supported. I don't care if the HP print language is obfuscated assembler. I care that Linux can't print.

      This is of course a selfish and wrong way of looking at linux (see above). Hardware companies that can't be bothered to make it easy on people voluntarily writing device drivers for linux will suffer by having their hardware poorly supported. People who buy said hardware are better off buying hardware know to be supported by linux or using another operating system (unless they want to help). Also, for every operating system out there, there is some hardware not supported. Therefore, by your argument, all operating systems suck.

      QED.

      --
      XML causes global warming.
  3. other interviews by I+Want+GNU! · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here is an interview that he with linux.org. A little outdated but still interesting.

  4. this is true by donglekey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    but what's preventing many people from switching to Linux is the lack of more specialized applications. For instance, 3D modelling, audio/video editing, advanced scientific apps, accountancy apps...

    This is very true. People talk about Linux 'taking over the desktop' which is good, but there is much more immediate niches to fill in other areas. They are good spot for Linux because the people doing that need a complete system, but don't need it to work with every other computer out there, and aren't worried about being able to buy the latest games etc. Printing is another one which he didn't mention but someone here did. Linux needs a better print system, and whoever is in a position to do it could probably even take a look at MacOS X for some very good ideas. 3D is getting the royal treatment and is a very good place for linux right now with XFS, ReiserFS, PRman, BMRT, Mental Ray, Maya, Shake, Softimage XSI 2.0, Houdini, and all sorts of high end graphics stuff, no 3D production studio is locked into windows or SGI anymore. Video and audio on the other hand, really need work. The video toaster ran on an Amiga for fucks sake, that should be proof that ultimate compatibility isn't needed and a self reliant system can do the job well. This is where I really see Linux taking off, is with distributions specifically made for different niches. They could come with all the libraries needed for the different programs you might run, and of course have all the free ones already installed. It will take a few startups to do something like this, however, and startups aren't in a good position right now.

    1. Re:this is true by digitalhermit · · Score: 5, Interesting
      This is where I really see Linux taking off, is with distributions specifically made for different niches.


      This is a good point; the appeal of Linux is ultimately the ease by which it can be tailored to different audiences. This is not to say that the audience should do the tailoring, but that an interested party *could* do it. For example, I'm still looking for a distribution tailored to the needs of a student. I.e., one containing a bunch of necessary mathematics and beginning programming applications, good mp3 and DVD support, ability to talk with Macs and Windows with equal ease, good word processing tools with automatic formatting of documents for English 101, etc.. All these packages already exist, but no one actually puts them together as an integrated solution. As a result you have students trying out Linux, but having to boot back into Winders to do their research paper in a pirated copy of Word.

  5. Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... by Eugenia+Loli · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mr Quick,
    if you can, PLEASE edit OUT the copy/paste you did on Slashdot of the OSNews article. The bandwidth problems we have is mostly when we have MANY and BIG images on our articles, NOT on articles like this. Please edit out our article from the Slashdot forum. It is a violation of our copyright. You should have asked us first... :(

    Thank you,
    Eugenia

  6. Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... by Eugenia+Loli · · Score: 3, Interesting

    >I'm sorry, but there's just a fine line here.

    Indeed.

    >If half the people out there can't read the article because it's Slashdotted.

    This is the fine line. OSNews is *NOT* Slashdotted. Slashdot has linked us over *25 times* the last few months, and we were never down because of it. We are always prepared for Slashdot. We have the bandwidth needed for Slashdot's links and we delivered accordingly.

    Each time I put a bigger article online, I calculate what we can handle and what not. If our bandwidth can't handle something, I just do not put it online, or I use one of our 4 mirrors (OSNews uses some mirrors for some of its images).

    So, your excuse does not hold. At least in this case.

  7. Re:Eugenia is having bandwidth issues... by rlowe69 · · Score: 3, Interesting


    This is the fine line. OSNews is *NOT* Slashdotted.


    I used the link. It worked. I read the article on your site. I wouldn't even know OSNews.com existed if it weren't for Slashdot.

    If a site is down, I *immediately* check the posts to see if there's a copy there, which I then read. This is probably what most people do.

    If a site *IS* Slashdotted, only a few thousand people have it in their cache to post before its gone for 10-12 hours or more. He thought you wouldn't have the capacity, so he posted it WITH FULL CREDIT. Unlike most rubes who are probably just karma whoring, he actually had a reasonable reason - even though he was wrong.

    I'm defending him because I often use posted articles - because I don't have some "Slashdot was just updated with an article!" indicator. I can't beat those people - by the time I check out a site sometimes, it's down. But I only check the posted version of an article if the original is down. If the site doesn't go down, the post is usually modded down and disappears.

    The truth of the matter is that Slashdot is a forum where anything goes for as long as Slashdot exists. The DeCSS code is here, along with other copyrighted materials. If you don't want to be linked on Slashdot (and most likely have your article copied by anyone, even though it is illegal), then tell the maintainers and I'm sure they won't link you .... but I don't think it has come to that.

    There's always going to be someone that will post your story to Slashdot. People can post anything to Slashdot. It's a crime and it sucks, but it's the truth - and it's permanent.

    --
    ----- rL