Slashdot Mirror
Lycoris Linux at ExtremeTech
Eugenia writes "Most of you probably remember Redmond Linux, the user-friendly distro that tried to duplicate the familiar WindowsXP UI feel under Linux. Well, there is no more Redmond Linux. The company recently renamed the product "Lycoris Desktop/LX". ExtremeTech features today a very favorable review of the distro, includes screenshots and information on the installation, network setup, desktop environment etc."
A wise man once said 'People have an irrational like of rubbish'. Hence Windows is very popular. So if Lycoris can get people to transfer onto Linux by making it 'just like Windows' and then gradually point out its other benefits it should make good progress in the Linux desktop market.
Though I get your general point, 'Linux' wants nothing. This particular distribution of Linux wants it, and so do its target users.
Another distro, say Debian, can put together something completely different and yet still be a Linux system.
Cheers,
Ian
Well maybe YOU wouldn't want something to look like a MicroSoft product, and maybe I wouldn't want it to look an MS product either, but I think, since this is being marketed as desktop, the goal here is to make it so average joe user can feel comfortable using it. Like it or not, people are comfortable with Microsoft. For most, that's all they have known. People are going to be skeptical about completly chaging the way their computer looks and feels. If linux is ever going to take over the desktop market, its going to be gradual. I say go ahead and make it look like windows. As long there are still all the bells and whistles for the power users its no big deal. This is like a 'gateway' linux. Draw people in with a familiar look and feel, and eventually, when they have a taste of the true power of Linux, they wont go back to Windows.
"To lead the people, you must walk behind them"
This could be what we need to migrate linux newbies away from Windows... if it delivers on all the promises.
Example. I am a Win95 trained junkie. Certainly not a clueless one who just uses it to e-mail grandman, but my sumo was insufficent to deal with Linux. Last year, at the advice of a friend, I got a second hard drive and installed Debian onto it alongside my Windows disk. Configuration was a nightmare; it took multiple visits by my Linux guru uncle to get the networking going, THEN we had to try and get Xwindows to deal with my video card, and we never got sound to work properly. In the end, the wholly alien system and configuration woes (try as I might, I couldn't get package manager tamed) led me to disuse the Linux side of my computer, and eventually format over the disk so I could have more Win 9x storage.
But this... this could be what I want. Something that's simple without sacrificing power. It doesn't have to clone windows as long as it's not like herding cats trying to get the thing to work properly. Every feature I could want -- autodetecting of video and sound, installation of various key applications, graphical frontend for nearly everything you could need to do -- is here.
So what's the catch? Has anybody worked with this thing? A second opinion is always key. Does it have weaknesses, stumbling blocks that would leave a newbie floundering around in icy water without a life preserver? I might very well join the Linux hordes if this distro meets my needs in a fairly comfortable manner.
One of the key points the reviewer makes is that this distro does not take the 'everything but the kitchen sink' approach to software it includes. It only includes apps and libraries that are known to work, and work in combination.
Some people might like that other distros give you the option of 5 different CD players, some of which may be in beta, or pre-beta - but most people just want a CD player that works. Ditto with other application categories. It's better to include solid software that is known to work, but might not have every last bell and whistle.
-josh
you silly naysayers:
.. and in my opinion .. nothing beats em. But linux on the desktop has always been .. lacking .. for the practical world.
.. the folks that NEED visual interdev cause your office is in bed with M$.
.. in MHO .. is a step in the right direction if all hales as they have reported. I'm willing to spend $30 to find out .. I have been holding off on running a non MS workstation because wine isnt very stable on either of my server boxes. [just a small segway, sometimes people are very suspicious of free things, and in America at least, something with a price tag hold value with the consumer .. seems silly, but we're programmed that way here from birth.]
.. sure .. I breathe ozone for breakfast, but my 80 year old mom can't even install windows - who here thinks she can install mandrake ?
t he-underdog outlook, and take a look at the world around you.
.. conservativly 70%) are sheep, they don't want to learn new things.. they want the world to be comfortable and safe, and to act how they already know it to act. These are not the people who install a new operating system "just-to-see" these are folks that run a p200 into the ground becuase to them its just another 'magic box' that gets them e-mail.
'Why do I wan't an operating system that looks like windows?' or 'where do they get off charging $30?' but this has got me to stand up and look.
I use free bsd/linux for servers
the world that NEEDS photoshop, because its what all your business contacts use
THIS
i especially like the sound of the installer
The fact that the 2 main kicks in the article are about its web-browser and e-mail warms my heart, since this is what the average joe in the world uses their computer for anyways. Appealing to the folks who are afraid of anything new is a good step i think.
As for who would want a desktop that looks like windows ? How about every existing customer who currently USES windows ? Folks who 'poo-poo'the windows look and feel should get off their college-I-need-a-crusade-I-will-commit-myself-to-
Most people out of college (lets say
so anything that can get the mass market less afraid is a victory in my opinion.
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
The biggest obstacle I faced in changing an office full of non-tech people from Windows/Office to Linux was training time. Despite the cost of Windows, Office, Project, Exchange seats, etc. it was nothing compared to the loss of time/productivity/money retraining them would have. Hell, just the 3-button mouse causes dozens of phone calls from Windows end-users!
Making the tools similar to what they are used to will get rid of most of that problem.
The big benefits come to an office with what ISN'T included in this package -- BSODs, Fatal Exceptions, and 5x-daily reboots.
It took me two years, but eventually I had trained most people in the office to accept the fact that Excel, IE and Word crashed on a regular basis. No, it was not their fault. Reboot and get on with life.
The final benefit was the statement "it is pure Linux in there".
Power to those that know how to find/use it. Functionality to those that don't.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
After reading the comments in this thread so far, I am a little ashamed of most of you. Can we let go the days where every Linux user has this attitude of learning the OS inside and out? Give me a break, this distribution looks great for joe-bob computer user who would like an alternative to Windows.
:-)
A distribution like this can be installed in an office enviroment. Think about it, if you have a small company with little money to spare on software licenses, for $30 you can have a complete turn-key workstation solution for everyone. Just don't give the receptionist root!
Anyway, can we please demonstrate more maturity and wisdom by not instantly bashing a distro that tries to attract new people? These newbies aren't stupid, they just don't want to spend 2 weeks setting up and tweaking out their first linux box. They don't have geek jobs and they make more money being doctors, lawyers, etc.
Victor
Why doesn't someone make a window manager that's pixel-per-pixel compatible with Windows?
Someone tried. The project is "Qvwm". I don't know if it is actively maintained, as I can't hit the website. Try getting more information here: http://www.icewalk.com/softlib/app/app_00661.html
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
Yeah, and I suppose everyone would be happier if they had to drive a stock car racer to work, too. 600 horses of pure, unadulterated power with a seat and harness system that requires contortionism to use, no radio, no air, no real back seat, stuck in traffic. Yes, the world would be a happier place indeed if everyone knew how to build their own log cabins from scratch using only a butter knife and a can of spam. Why, we could measure our own hot water into the washing machine with a soda straw, and hand-agitate it for maximum effectiveness! How 1337 would THAT be? Oh, my, if only we all could strut our technical prowess in everyday tasks! Why, I could replace my remote control with a unit that has two buttons only that broadcasts either a 0 or a 1 and change channels and volume with BINARY! YES! I can feel it now, mama! ONE HUGE HIGH-SCHOOL MODEL SUBMARINE CLUB RULING THE WORLD! We could make everything operate like a model submarine and serve punch mixed by lil' bitty submarines chained together in the punchbowl! We'll replace surgeons' scapels with lil' model submarines! Darn those surgeons and their need for a tool that just does what they want! USE the SUBMARINE, DR. GREEN! Bring back the hand-cranked phone. Bring back the seven-step starting procedure of the Model A (for you hackers, a model A is a really old car that was made by Ford, dudez). Bring back hand-tanning of your own leather to make moccasins! Oh, yes, add innumerable steps to our everyday lives, THAT'S WHAT COMPUTERS ARE FOR!
OR
We could make computer interfaces that require only those who WANT to dink with settings to ever have to. We could make OSes that actually get tasks done, and only tasks done. We could open computing to the (hopefully temporarily)illiterate and handicapped. We could, but they might be as 1337 as us then, might'nt they? Can't let that happen, can we, Stanley? I wish every techno-head who states that people should either: a) learn the CLI and the meaning of bin or b) be relegated to an overpriced, crashy, non-secured OS, would have to walk into a dentist office and be handed a drill and told to get to work on themselves. Expertise and aptitude carry as much responsibility as they do priviledge. If you hackers are so hot, make an OS that my cataract-dimmed mother can use to e-mail her grandkids even if she can't see anything smaller than 18-point fonts. Make it free, and make it reliable. If you can't, then go talk to each other in your high towers of computing prowess and leave the other 97% of us alone and in peace. You talk a great game, but the only ones you amuse are yourselves. You sit quivering at the prospect than one day the world might not need you as gatekeepers to the shrine of *nix. Well, quiver no longer. It's coming, and I for one will absolutely have a bald baby monkey when it does from sheer joy. Here, Elroy, have another bottle of Bawls and a light-up keychain that says SLACK. Relax in the knowledge that you don't seem to have a task or an accomplishment, because you traded it in for a lifestyle and a sub-culture.
Pick him up and take him out, I'm through with him.
Kudos to the people who care if people can actually use something, not just "operate" it. Lycoris may not have it all figured out, but at least they understand who made whom.
Windows XP SP2 told me to install third-party software that prevents viruses and protects stability... I chose Ubuntu
I agree with your sentiment, but this thing doesn't look at all like windows. The default desktop background looks like windows, after that, it's just another distribution with one of the Linux desktops on it. Nothing new, nothing startlingly "like-MS."
Judging from the review, the best feature is that it works. The reviewer seems accustomed to Linux distros that fall apart when they're used. Printing sucking, no spell checkers available, difficult-to-install tarballs (I'm not clear on how he found that simpler, but, whatever.)
Making something simpler to use and less broken out of the box is a worthy goal Making things look like things that they are not is not a worthy goal. As I've found myself posting several times over the past couple of days, making something look like something whose functionality it poorly copies is a worse sin than making it look completely alien. If a user sees something, he brings a large set of expectations of behavior with that. When the look-alike doesn't function like he expects it to, he becomes frustrated and rejects it more completely than he would reject something that looked new. I've seen it happen plenty, and it's a foolhardy path down which we travel if this becomes the custom.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
I am an Unbeliever, by nature. Tell me that a distro is easy to use, and I will ask you what your biases are that lead you to make such a statement.
SO I ordered a CD of Desktop/lx to run my own tests. I built a box from parts, just so I could have something to test it on. And then I ran my own little lab using Mandrake 8.1, Windows 2000 Professional, and Desktop/lx.
The machine is this: Abit SL6 motherboard, Intel Pentium 4 1GHz processor, NetGear FA310tx NIC, ATI Rage128 Pro AGP card, Maxtor DiamondMax 30GB HDD, a generic 1.44 floppy, HP cd12-series CD-RW. Total RAM: 384MB.
The first install was Mandrake.It installed, but didn't recognize the card on installation. I got it working, but only in 16 color, 640x480 resolution. It did not recognize the VIA onboard sound, nor the CD burner. As an out-of-the-box install, it wouldn't have won any prizes. I purposely did not spend any time on it, as I was testing the distro's ability on a clean, simple install.
Next, I tried Win2K, just to give myself a benchmark. After all, hardware manufacturers almost universally create their wares for the MS world. Surprisingly, the Win2K also did not handle the Rage128 correctly, leaving me with the job of downloading and installing the new driver. Same for the cd-burner. I have to say, I was pretty shocked. I expected the machine to install right away.
The Lycoris distro happened to arrive in the mail that same day, so I blew away the partition for a third time and popped the disk in.
Installation was a breeze. After answering a few questions, the file-copies started, leaving me with a Caldera-like configuration, answering network and user-creation questions. Having answered all those, I got to play solitaire for a bit. After the copying was finished, I started the X configuration. The card was recognized and configured on the first try with no input from me. After I rebooted the system, I was left with a KDE system which had been themed like Microsoft's XP. And here's where things got interesting.
On the desktop was a cute little Network Browser icon. I clicked on it, largely to see how much it failed in my work environment, where I have Win2K servers and workstations, Linux servers and workstations, and Win98 laptops. The Win2K servers are running an Active Directory tree. The browser not only found them all and displayed them, I received access under my normal user account to all resources on the network. On the first try.
All in all, I think this distro is one to watch...
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha