Slashdot Mirror
It's (Almost) Hammer Time
thelizman writes "C|Net is catching up on the buzz with AMD's Hammer line of processors. Of note in the article is how AMD demonstrated their 64-bit contender using Linux and Windows, instead of just Windows. In reality, Linux will likely have 64 bit applications more quickly than Microsoft, and will see use on this processor more readily than your average WinTel machine, so you know...like...it only makes sense."
Well, for all you non-Americans who have never heard of MC Hammer:
U Can't Touch This
By M.C. Hammer
It's hammer time (Repeat 5x)
My, my, my music hits me so hard
Makes me say "Oh my Lord"
Thank you for blessing me
With a mind to rhyme and two hype feet
It feels good, when you know you're down
A super dope homeboy from the Oaktown
And I'm known as such
And this is a beat, uh, you can't touch
I told you homeboy (You can't touch this)
Yeah, that's how we living and you know (You can't touch this)
Look at my eyes, man (You can't touch this)
Yo, let me bust the funky lyrics (You can't touch this)
Fresh new kicks, advance
You gotta like that, now you know you wanna dance
So move, outta your seat
And get a fly girl and catch this beat
While it's rolling, hold on
Pump a little bit and let 'em know it's going on
Like that, like that
Cold on a mission so fall them back
Let 'em know, that you're too much
And this is a beat, uh, you can't touch
Yo, I told you (You can't touch this)
Why you standing there, man? (You can't touch this)
Yo, sound the bell, school is in, sucka (You can't touch this)
Give me a song, or rhythm
Make 'em sweat, that's what I'm giving 'em
Now, they know
You talking about the Hammer you talking about a show
That's hype, and tight
Singers are sweating so pass them a wipe
Or a tape, to learn
Kevin McGrath (AMD senior tech) gave a great presentation at Stanford on the Hammer and how AMD took on many design concepts of the X86-64 architecture. This was probably one of the more informative lectures I have seen on the topic. The video is long though http://murl.microsoft.com/videos/stanford/ee380b/0 00927_ee380_OnDemand_100_100K_320x240.htm
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
I plan to get a 2 processor Clawhammer box myself, it's the only reason I haven't upgraded for the past year. I'm bored of having a mainstream PC (P3 550MHz, don't ask...) after using a StrongARM/NetBSD box for a few years. Time for something novel and exciting - dual processor new fangled chip sounds like just the thing...
The site also has a 64-bit simulator for you favorite 32-bit processor based Linux system.
StarTrek.org Free Webmail
I was just thinking the same thing I googlized my thought and found this a AMD Whitepaper. Looks like its ah, ax, eax, and rax.
Isn't that:
mov ah, #1
mov ax, #1
mov eax, #1
mov rax, #1
Feel free to read the specs.
StarTrek.org Free Webmail
FYI, Windows NT 3.51 and 4.0 on the Alpha were 32 bit still, not 64 bit. It was some sort of backward comaptibility 32 bit hack thing done with the compiler. (Aside: Anyone remeber FX/32 on the Alpha?)
AFAIK:
- NT code isn't 64 bit safe. 2000/XP I'm not sure of.
- the 64 bit port of NT was developed on the Alpha, initially anyway, and then ported to the Itanium.
- Alpha Linux has always been 64 bit. One of the earlier kernels had to be extensively revised to be 64 bit safe in order to run on the Alpha.
Soko
(O/T - The Alphas still killed the Intel machines at the time with MHz as well as memory and I/O bandwidth, which is why we used them. Oh well.)
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
x86-64, which is what AMD is shipping with Hammer *IS* a hybrid. It is a x86 processor with 64 bit instructions added on top of the 32 bit ones. Like Intel's extension of x86 from 8 bit to 16 and later 32 bitness. It allows backwards functionality, and forward extensibility through 64 bit applications that might need it. I think it's a much more intelligent solution as there are a lot of applications that don't need 64-bitness...
Winsows NT was ported to alpha, 2k was never (or at least never released).
64-bit on the desktop is next to useless IMHO, but the Hammer brings also many goodies:
- it's fast
- there are additional registers available which should help compilers quite a lot (avoiding false dependencies: more opportunities for executing more instructions at the same time)
- it's fast.
Ok maybe you could say that you don't need such speed, but the games you play don't look like Final Fantasy (the movie) and your opponents could really be smarter and I suspect that a good AI is very,very CPU-consuming.
How did this get modded up? Check www.sandpile.org. The P4 maxed out at 99 watts and the Athlon maxed out at 75 watts. Maybe AMD should add huge plastic brackets to their spec so people can use freakin huge heat sinks and then maybe they'll shut up about trying to cool a "megar" T-bird 1.4 gig@75 watts.
--------
It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
Uhh, dude... You have no clue. Look into the Hammer a bit. The main point (more so than the 64bit stuff IMHO) is that it can do glueless SMP. I.E. no special chipsets need for =or 8 procs.
FWIW, there are several "AMD64" conditional #defines in the Windows XP DDK.
It's been pointed out for ages in the NT Insider Newsletter.
My guess is: Microsoft doesn't work in a fishbowl like the Mozilla team does; but it must not cost them much to keep an IA-64->x86-64 port of XP64 ready, just in case (especially since I guesstimate the HAL should merely be a hybrid of x86 and IA-64, the compiler an extension of the x86 logic (much less difficult than VLIW and much well understood), and the code above HAL, once 64-bit clean, is (reportedly) written in compiled, not assembled, languages).
At present a pally (Athlon XP) needs MB support for good thermal protection. We will see what the tbread (.13um Athlon) needs. The hammer was designed from the start as a server chip so really nice thermal protection will most likely be there (rumor has it a heat spreader like the K6's or P4's will be present).
Unless you worked at API (formerly Alpha Processor Inc.) in *1999*, you didn't have a 1GHz Alpha. And it for damned sure didn't cost $900.
y =c net
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-227510.html?legac
There was ONE or two 1GHz Alpha's mounted in a SlotB format at API in *1999*. These had to use 250MHz cache (at a 1:4 ratio). Limitations in the Tsunami chipset didn't favor anything more than an 833MHz. This meant that with the slow cache and Tsunami limitations, the 1GHz was like putting a Corvette engine in a Cavalier. Goes fast doing only one thing. Don't take a corner.
Those one or two 1GHz Slot B's were proto's. They are probably still on my former desk or in the lab or maybe have been shipped back to Korea by now. API closes its doors this week from what I've heard.
I worked at API.
What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
Anandtech has posted an article with lots of information and pictures Right here.
OK, obviously you don't need more RAM.
Physical RAM is not the issue here either. It's the virtual address space.
Video editing is probably the best example: A full length video film will not fit into 4 GB (DVD quality). 64bit will remove ugly workarounds that have been necessary here. You don't have to actually have 10 GB of memory in your PC...