France: Criminal Charges Against Yahoo's Ex-CEO

Hank Reardon writes: "According to this C|NET article, former Yahoo CEO Timothy Koogle is being charged criminally for allowing the sale of various Nazi memorabilia on Yahoo's auctions pages. Ther article notes that the charges were filed in regardless of the offending items being removed from the French Yahoo! pages. Is it just me or do the lines between national and international law seem to be blurring?"

Comments

So what...

[fluffhead]

the chances of him being extradited for something like this are pretty slim, I'd expect. So he can't go to France or any of its territories from now on, big deal.

Re:So what...

[Lord Sauron]

Not only this. He also won't be able to french kiss. And forget french fries.

Re:So what...

[Lord Sauron]

THESE territories
namely

Bassas da India Mayotte

Clipperton Island New Caledonia

Europa Island Reunion

French Guiana Saint Pierre & Miquelon

French Polynesia Tromelin Island

French Southern & Antartic Lands Wallis &

Futuna

Glorioso Islands

Guadeloupe

Juan De Nova Island

Martinique

Re:So what...

[Lord Sauron]

Sorry, I copied an incomplete list in the last message (damn tables). Here's the end of the list.

Mayotte

New Caledonia

Reunion

Saint Pierre & Miquelon

Tromelin Island

Wallis & Futuna

Re:So what...

[fluffhead]

Mostly it is a "2" because I have karma to burn (47 at last count). I was mostly kidding, or maybe "trolling" is a better word. So mod me down already.... I have been to Paris and it is very beautiful (even though it was quite frigid in November 1999 when I went). Et aussi, je parle assez bien en francais, et j'aime bien les francais et les francophones. However the anti-Nazi-stuff laws (which incidentally are even worse in Germany), seem silly &/or misguided to those of us who have grown up in the U.S. under the protection of the (albeit steadily eroding) First Amendment. Ban conduct, not communication.

Freedom of speech?

[tfurrows]

Isn't supression of this sort akin to the supression the Nazis encouraged?

Also, though the Nazi movement is an embarrasing (to say the absolute least) stain on the history of mankind, is not not nonetheless a piece of our history.

I would hate to have our children forget about the horrors the Nazis caused, and censorship of this kind seems to be aimed at that.

In other news...

[DeLabarre]

When Koogle vowed to vigorously defend himself in court, France immediately surrendered.

This is pretty dumb.

[Klaruz]

So if some random person runs into a store in france and stick some nazi stuff with a price tag on the shelf, the gov can punish the store?

After all, they were selling it, right? Even if they didn't put it there, and they would take it down if they knew about it. They're still selling it.

Dumb.

Re:This is pretty dumb.

[elji]

Correct, they do that.
Some books are forbidden to sale in France, most notably 2 books from famous french author Louis-Ferdinand Céline ("Bagatelle pour un massacre" et "Les beaux draps"), written in 1937 and 1941.
Those few who own a copy of these can only keep them locked in their house.

simply pathetic

[monkeyserver.com]

Do they feel they need to prove a point. This is almost as childish as claiming ownership of hyperlinks, and trying to sue based on it.

I think there's something wrong with those Europeans.

Re:simply pathetic

[monkeyserver.com]

I'm sorry you didn't see that I was joking.

But I can tell you that having such broad approaches to handling Nazi peraphanelia is also a very dangerous broad generalization, yet the french government has sued an american over doing it.

I think it shows extreme arrogance of the French's part to sue after they even have removed the goods. It shows that they really don't care about the issue at hand and are suing for alterior motives, be it press, or just because they are prics.

Duh!

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it just me or do the lines between national and international law seem to be blurring?

Passport: World ID

UN: One World Government

Bill Gates: Anti-Christ

~~~

A far greater danger...

[quantax]

The Nazi regime was horrible, but it is far more more dangerous to try to 'ignore' it. Those who are committed to forgetting history are bound to repeat it. Don't follow the path of ignorance.

Re:A far greater danger...

[fogof]

Funny ... Those who are so inclined to remind us of the tragedies of the past, are repeating it, or at least closing there eyes.

Liberate.

Re:A far greater danger...

[Skapare]

The French government itself forgot all about the Nazi regime that invaded their country. And as a result, today they themselves are starting to act like Nazis.

International Court

[Deanasc]

There should be an international courthouse in Antartica. All international cases must be tried there. That would stop all these frivolous lawsuits. After all, who would bother to file a lawsuit there except the truly grieved.

Re:International Court

[fogof]

There is already an international court house.
http://www.icj-cij.org/

I think this is where they are trying Ariel Sharon for his crimes.

read the article...

[tetraminoe]

Three French Jewish and anti-Semitism groups pressed for the criminal charges in October. (emphasis added)

Okay... So the French Nazis are upset over lost business?

Dmitry Sklyarov double standard

[andaru]

The judge ruled that French laws don't apply to U.S. businesses, but it obviously doesn't work the other way around, as in the case of Dmitry Sklyarov.

They should have waited to file charges until Timothy Koogle was vacationing on the French Riviera, rather than having to try to extradite him.

I guess it's time to brush up on your foreign law, since we will all have to start obeying the laws of every other country in the world, including those that are mutually exclusive.

Re:Dmitry Sklyarov double standard

[Skapare]

Free Speech is illegal in China. Death penalty may be the result. If you speak bad about the Chinese government, no matter what country you are in, they might demand your extradition to China to stand trial and face the firing squad. This is what can happen if we set any precedent to allow foreign countries to dictate what is done beyond their own national territory. Unfortunately both the United States (Sklyarov) and France (Koogle) are setting just such precedents. And this is very serious business. Citizens of these countries need to inform their government representatives of the grave risk involved in such a precedent exposing them to the extraditions of other countries for what is perfectly legal at home.

Re:Dmitry Sklyarov double standard

[DavidTC]

In many places, learning about Nazis is part of the school curriculum. It's not that farfetched that said curriculum is actually written down as part of state policy, and that it is also state policy that you have to puchase textbooks from one of these ten suppliers, thus forcing purchasers to purchase Nazi 'paraphernalia'. (Whatever the hell 'paraphernalia' means in that context.)

While such textbooks probably aren't illegal in France, which just seems to care that they don't have neo-Nazis walking around, I'd wager to bet many of them are illegal in Germany, because Germany frankly doesn't allow any presentation of WWII that isn't government approved. (Of course, the reason it isn't approved is simply because the textbook manufactures don't care enough to submit their books, but that's beside the point.)

Ergo, there are situtations where schools in some countries are required, as part of their educational mandate that was handed down by the government, to purchase things that may be illegal in other countries.

Another example: In Quebec, it is required that you have French and Eglish on all signs, and that they be equal size. In various cities in America, there are laws saying that your main sign must be in English, or at least the English must be larger than your other signs. (This is to stop 'Chinatowns' and whatnot from becoming completely unnavigatable by police and just random passerbyers.) These laws are in direct contradiction to each other.

And, of course, there is the very very obvious one of 'you must drive on the left', vs. 'you must drive on the right', though I think it would get pretty surreal pretty quickly if every government tried to enforce their traffic laws everywhere.

There are also the 'wildly different' laws that, despite having the exact same intention and pretty close legal framework, were created with no regard to each other and thus directly conflict in different parts. For example, common law marriage times are different in different countries. Though I don't know the laws, let's say that if you live with someone for two years you're married in England, and it's three years in Louisiana. If you have sex with your common law wife of two and a half years in England, you can be arrested for rape in Louisiana if you happen to mention you're married, because a) You aren't married in Louisiana, and b) It's rape if you trick the other person into thinking you're married to them.

Obviously that isn't the intent of the law, and you wouldn't be arrested even if you did it in Louisiana (Countries pretty much just accept if you're from another country and say you're married, that you are, and they'd have to prove you knew you weren't married there anyway.), but conflicts between different country's laws happen all the time, and it's crazy to try to enforce them in anything outsides the boundaries of this country for exactly this reason.

From the source...

[leviramsey]

The article from Yahoo themselves.

Nazi decorations

[c.r.o.c.o]

Well, in that case France should charge a lot of the junk store owners in Toronto. In particular those on Church St.

I have seen plenty of Nazi war decorations (or medals, whatever they're called) for sale in those stores. And those were the cheap ones, which about a third of the Reich Army got just for fighting in the war.

And I'm sure the Nazi memorabilia is big business throughout the world. I'm not into it, so I don't know for sure, but it's a safe bet.

Going after the CEO of Yahoo for this is ridiculous. I guess there's a judge in France whith too much time on his hands.

Re:so what? don't go to france

[fogof]

And then you wonder why ppl hate america. I mean, most ppl in this country are great. Unfortunalty, ignorance is loud.

Nazi takeover of France, news at 10

[Skapare]

The French government is acting very much like a Nazi regime. Or worse. It makes me think that these people actually picked this up from the German invaders during WW2 and passed the concepts on down to their children, and so on.

When the French citizen clicks on the Yahoo.COM site, they know they are going to the USA. This is the electronic online age equivalent to traveling, including overseas.

<img src="frenchflagwithswastica.jpg">

As an aside...

[DavidTC]

Does anyone else think that com.com is the lamest domain name possible?

Re:The USA is a terrorist nation

[trg83]

AC, You're seriously misguided. I take that back. You're an imbecile. It's hard to compare mass murderers with mass murderers. Hitler and Stalin both fit the description. It is quite unfortunate that we took the side of Russia in WWII. We should have let Hitler and Stalin destroy each other.

Not a French lawsuit

[Balinares]

There seems to be a common misconception that it's the French government that wants Yahoo down. This seems to be wrong.
The plaintiff seems to be an org call the "Jewish Community of France". I've not managed to check if they even have the French nationality at all. Most French people I know do not agree at all with the lawsuit.