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TiVo Service Cost Rising
evil_one writes: "Shortly after the article on ReplayTV mods, comes this story about TiVo cost increases." A 30% increase in the cost of TiVo service will probably affect a lot of readers -- and might just make the hassle of a homebrewed PVR a little more attractive. Of course, TiVo service is what makes a TiVo more attractive than a plain recorder anyhow.
I was just looking at the TiVO web page recently and noticed that they were pushing the version 2 of the recorder. (With USB ports for future expansion)
My question is why not Firewire?
Having an external firewire connection to me makes MUCH more sense in that they can use to for additional storage for drives. They can also make the device communicate with a PC easier where it acts as a "camera"; of course these very same suggestions might get them into "hotter" water with the Media companies..
If they had a Tivo that had the firewire features, the rate increase may be worth it... but as of now... nope...
--
Time is on my side
Of course, TiVo service is what makes a TiVo more attractive than a plain recorder anyhow.
What service is that exactly? TV Guide? The one I get free off the satellite dish? Even on the standalone boxes (of which I still own one) you can get TV guide date for $20-30 a year. The only "service" received from TiVo is based in their blocking my choice of where to get TV guide data from. In other words: In support of a poor business plan. I only paid for one year of service with my nearly new DirecTiVo, on the assumption that the company will go out of business and I will lose my already limited reluctance to use the existing hacks to avoid paying for the DTiVo.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
[sarcasm]
Because it's more than fair to pirate a satellite signal. After all, they intrude on my property by broadcasting!
[/sarcasm]
This is the most common argument given by satellite pirates. $50/mo. for over three-hundred channels is not going to break the average consumer, especially those with enough money to be investing in satellite hacking equipment.
Guess where DirecTV receives the funding to launch their satellites? That's right, the consumer who pays for their service. I'm not an advocate of the DMCA or SSSCA. In fact, I am strongly opposed to both, as well as the latest copy protection methods. However, by pirating DirecTV, you're merely depriving a person like yourself of an income.
That's right, freeloader. CEOs aren't the ones laid off due to lack of funding. You aren't benevolent to society; if anything, you're keeping the cost of DirecTV higher. With more subscribers, they can provide you with more content and keep costs lower.
Inevitably, somebody will respond to this comment with "how is this any different with the RIAA?" It is. DirecTV is merely a content provider; they don't generate it (except for channels 100, 200, 201, and the other DirecTV customer information channels) and you certainly get something for your money when you subscribe (instead of the RIAA, where you pay $18 for a CD that costs $1 to manufacture comprised of filler plus one single that you actually like). Also, my DTV receiver doesn't restrict me in any way from recording my favorite TV shows.
In conclusion, as a DirecTV subscriber since 1997, I've experienced nothing but friendly, competent people working at their company. People who are negligably different from yourself; people who certainly aren't deservant of losing their primary source of income because of thousands of penny pinching freeloaders.
Do you like German cars?
I think it would have been better to say TiVo's service cost is rising from $9.95/mo to $12.95/mo. It sounds far better than "increase by 30%." Its only another $3/mo, and that's only another $36/yr. I'm pretty sure most subscribers, myself included, can handle another $36.
I won't homebrew my own because I am not just paying $12.95/mo for TV Guide data. TiVo has a lot of power in its software to handle that data. It seems to me that if you want a peice of software to record TV shows automatically (based on what you like), track when shows move, allow you to watch a show while its still recording, continually record liveTV, and update itself (to fix bugs and add new features) without any intervention on your part what-so-ever, then have fun writing it. If you want to do that, fine. Stop wasting time by posting and go do it. I, on the other hand, bought TiVo and pay for its service because its extremely convenient. It only took me about 15 minutes to set it up. How long is your homebrew going to take? I get free software upgrades to an already excellent UI/system while I'm sleeping. Can you code in your sleep?
I don't personally don't watch TV on my computer, nor will I put a computer in my living room so that I can. You get a lot for $12.95/mo. Not just guide data. You get a system supported by a company well deserving of another $3/mo. (BTW, a company I now understand why sent out TiVo Window clings last month...)
Before posting "What does TiVo service offer?" just howzabout going to their website and looking it up for yourself? They do a lot better job then having a bunch of /.'ers put it in their own words. www.tivo.com
Next before saying "I can do that!" no, you really can't. Not in a nice box with a good remote and trick-play and quality recording with some exemplarily expert system software all hassle-free. Yes you can cobble together some Frankenstein of a solution that will get you 70%, mebbe 80% of the way there but it's those final few steps that make the whole thing a pleasure to use and not some annoyingly geeky custom half-solution.
Will we see these stand-alone devices superceded by PC-based ones? Mebbe, mebbe not. First off folks like to watch TV on their TVs, not on their computers (yes some of you don't, I'm talking the majority.) They want to sit on their couch with a remote in hand without cables strung across the house from the PC and be able to click the shows they want with minimum hassle. That doesn't describe most of the PC-based systems that we're hearing about.
Next there's the question is it preferable to make your great-as-a-PC PC do double-duty as a PVR? Sure the network connection is already there but in most cases the rest of the wiring (TV-in, TV-out, Audio out, IR-in, etc.) is a major PITA. Then there's just the hassle of having a heavy-load application running on your un-optimized hardware. Do-able? Mostly. Worth it? Likely not IMHO.
Lastly comes the question of the listings. This is where TiVo and the like really differ from a VCR - they're SMART. That smartness is based on having those current detailed listings customized to your local system & tier and no, that information isn't easy to come by. Yes it might be possible to try and snarf the listings out of TV Guide or someone but that's brittle and if enough folks did it they'd soon find ways to break it. Given that along with these listings come software updates and tech support and such it's likely that they're not all that bad a deal.
So - is TiVo gonna make it? Probably. They just got another round of financing, have lots of investment from the right folks, seem to be doing well in spite of the uphill battle of teaching folks just what their product is. The price hike isn't a great thing but with the lifetime-offer price still being offered for a short time that takes the sting out and once folks go TiVo they really don't want to go back, will pony up. Next fall we'll likely see more companies coming out with more licensed models and possibly another design but for now its TiVo & Replay.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
I'll send in my $200. I've already given them a lot of money in monthly fees, and I don't see myself discarding this box (which is the main reason I didn't do the lifetime subscription in the first place.
Besides, this is a company I'd really like to stay around, so I'm not going to bet against them.
-- The world is watching America, and America is watching TV.
It's 3 dollars. Really folks, 3 Dollars. :-) That's one less bag of potatoe chips you can buy a month. Let's face it, there is such a thing as inflation, et cetera, eventually they had to increase the price. Three years without a price hike is pretty freaking good!
Derek Greene
Holy cow! Do the math!
I just grabbed my TI-83 calculator, told it to assume the average TiVo customer was with them for 3 years (? I've had my VCR 5 years), told it that lifetime subscriptions (also 3 years -- they don't transfer to new units purchased last I checked) are going for $200, or that you can pay $12.95/month. What's the interest rate they need to have on that $200 to make the same amount of money?
73%. I'll take that any day.
Now, with the old system, which i think was $9.95/month or $250 for lifetime, that was only 27%. Reasonable for a legit company.
When lifetime rates go back up to $250, to equal that ROI they'd have to get 50%. Only.
Let's throw away the 3 year assumption. It's pretty rough on the company, possibly.
Say they get the credit card 9.99% that's flogging my mailbox now: the $250 and $12.99/month goes almost 21 months.
I realize that promotions that generate customers are hard to quantify in terms of ROI, but just looking at these numbers tells you what it's worth to them to get those lifers (if they think you'll have the same unit for over 2 years or so). If you really like TiVo, and aren't sure where to go, it's certainly worth your while to get the lifetime subscription (if you're looking at more than 21 months or so). TiVo apparently thinks it's worth theirs, too. If, on the other hand, you're sticking with them for less than 21 months (or will purchase a new unit between now and then), go monthly. Even if they raise their rates to $14.95/month tomorrow, that's still almost 18 months out to break even with $250 lifetime. Of course, if your only other debt is a home mortgage at 6.99% (lucky you!), the breakeven point for 250/$12.95 is 20 months out.
My parents have had the same Hitachi VCR since 1992. If they had gone lifetime then ($200 promotion) and avoided the $12.95 a month (ignoring the fact that TiVo wasn't around then), a TiVo like company would have to get a 83% return on them.
How long do you think they estimate the average customer sticks around? You're really handing them money if you give them $200 for a lifetime and it dies after the 1 year warranty. Even a 0% investment would pay the $200/$12.95 tradeoff in 15 months (12 months is actually a -51% interest rate!).
BASIC cable costs me $45/mo from Comcast.
I'm seriously considering cancelling it. I don't watch enough TV to justify $500/yr.
Too bad there's no real "basic" option (other than broadcast) at a more reasonable price.
I wasn't pissed. My cable company raises their prices every 6 months. This is the first price increase I've gotten from Tivo. I just forked over the $200 for the lifetime sub and was done with it.
Not that I don't wonder about a company with no continuing revenue stream, but fwiw, there's no cost.
TV manufacturers don't make us pay each month for the privilege of watching the set we bought, and they seem to be doing just fine.