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Beaming Neutrinos Through Earth?

TheMatt writes: "An article at PhysicsWeb talks about a proposed project by scientists at FermiLab. The project would involve sending a beam of neutrinos 10,000 km through the earth to a detector at SuperKamiokande. The hope is that passing through so much matter would alter the beam enough to better study CP (charge-parity) violation."

8 of 33 comments (clear)

  1. ping time by isorox · · Score: 3, Funny

    If we send a message through the earth, rather then arround, we cut our latency by 1/3 - and thats ignoring and routers enroute. This could revolutionize quake!

  2. In the future ... by jquiroga · · Score: 4, Funny

    In the future, just after contacting with alien civilizations, we humans will be able to chat with the aliens about all the funny physics experiments we came up with, and ask them if they also carried them out. Imagine the conversations:

    Human: By the way, did you try to beam neutrinos across your planet and gain some insights into the charge-parity violation? We based all our theories on the results of that revolutionary experiment.

    Alien (translated): Yes, being there, done that, half an eon ago. And you got it wrong, see, this "y = i++;" is really "y = ++i". You should have abandoned C long ago.

    Human: Ohhh... I see (damn!)

  3. Re:First impression by sigwinch · · Score: 3, Interesting
    The SuperKamiokande ... detector recently suffered an accident and is currently out of commission.
    "Accident" as in "half its photomultiplier tubes imploded". It will be some time before SuperK is back online.
    Will different densities affect how the neutrinos travel (making aiming a difficulty)?
    They ought to fly straight. (Not that that makes aiming easy!) The parameter of most interest is just the distance between the source and the detector. It is postulated that neutrinos can switch flavors in flight. The more distance they fly, the more chance they have of switching.
    --

    --
    Kuro5hin.org: where the good times never end. ;-)

  4. Re:How do you aim a 'beam' of neutrinos? by stevelinton · · Score: 3, Informative

    You don't. You aim a beam of something else, protons, say (in the usual way with magnets) and then smash it into a carefully selected target. The collisions make lots of neutrinos (and other junk, but a few km or rock absorbs that) and they are travelling, pretty much, in the direction of the original beam.

  5. Re:First impression by mcelrath · · Score: 3, Informative
    The article says construction would have to begin by 2006, so there'll definitely be enough time for me to get out of the way.

    Neutrinos interact so weakly that standing in the beamline would not cause you any harm. I have walked through the beamline of the NuTeV Experiment (while it was running). Not only that but a beam pointed at Super-K will not be a straight line, it will be more of a cone. At the surface in Japan, where the beam exits the earth, the size of the beam will be ~kilometers.

    -- Bob

    --
    1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
  6. Close, but no cigar by Spamalamadingdong · · Score: 3, Informative

    The collisions of protons with targets don't make neutrinos, they make pions. Charged pions can be directed magnetically; when they decay to muons, they create neutrinos and when the muons decay to electrons they create still more neutrinos. If the kinetic energy of the decay is small compared to the energy of the original beam, the neutrinos will be travelling in more or less the same direction as the parent particles.

  7. Neutrinos going to Mass by Spamalamadingdong · · Score: 3, Informative
    Will different densities affect how the neutrinos travel (making aiming a difficulty)? Or is that pretty much what they're depending on?
    I'm no particle physicist, but I believe that density, period (density times distance) is the objective of the long-baseline beam project. Neutrinos can travel through millions of miles of matter like light through glass; they are very hard to scatter because they interact so weakly. On the other hand, it appears that interactions which change the neutrino's flavor without scattering it are much more likely, which is why our early detectors only found 1/3 of the neutrinos we'd expect the Sun to emit from its rate of fusion. (When protons are converted to neutrons, charge and parity are conserved by the emission of a positron and a neutrino; a lot of these electron neutrinos apparently switch flavors to mu and tau neutrinos on their way out of the core.)

    And if they miss? They won't be seeing any neutrinos coming from the source accelerator. If they aimed at you, you'd never notice any more than you notice the millions of solar neutrinos streaking through your body every second like ghost bullets from an etherial machine gun. Hey, they don't even slime you...

  8. Re:First impression by TwP · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0

    Cute! However, the same logic can be applied to determine that 2=-2, 3=-3, 4=-4, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. In fact, using a third order mapping function you can show that three values (X1,X2,X3) are equivalent. Using a fourth order mapping function you can show that four values are equivalent. And so on . . .

    And now you see the problem of trying to apply a tautology to mapping functions that are not homeomorphic -- i.e. "one to one" and "onto".

    The function X^2=Y involves the loss of some information when mapping X to Y. There are two X values which will resolve to the same Y value. Therefore, the assertion that X1=X2 is correct since the inverse function is ambiguous as to which value of X was used to produce the given Y value. However, to assert that the value is zero you must impose the restriction on your mapping function that it is monotonically increasing or decresing -- i.e. that it is homeomorphic. X^2=Y is not.

    Still, very cute ;)