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FCC: Cable ISPs Need Not Give Competitors Access

michael_cain writes: "Multichannel News is reporting that the FCC has ruled that cable companies providing high-speed data service do not need to provide access to competing ISPs. Depending on whom you believe, this should lead to either (a) more rapid rollout of cable modem service since the cable companies don't have to share the revenues or (b) cable companies limiting the content and services you can reach over their IP infrastructure." And an Anonymous Coward writes: "Excite is running an article indicating that the FCC has exempted cable internet companies from having to share their lines to competition. Unlike telephone companies, cable companies are required only to share their lines when specifically told to by the government. As a condition of the AOL Time Warner merger, that company was forced to offer its consumers a choice of Internet service providers on its high-speed lines. Thursday's vote, classifying cable Internet as an "information service" rather than a telecommunications service that is subject to the open-access provision, makes sure that cable companies won't have to share anytime soon."

103 of 258 comments (clear)

  1. a difference? by PopeAlien · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is there really a difference anymore between data and telecommunications? How can the definition of the pipe be so important?

    1. Re:a difference? by lawyamike · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are correct, of course. The type of pipe is important only as a vestige of history. Namely, the telephone companies (or company) laid their pipe as public utilities regulated by the federal government, and the cable companies did so as franchisees of various state agencies more recently.

      Convergence is making all of these evolutionary tics look silly. Personally I root for the pipe that deregulates the quickest.

    2. Re:a difference? by StevenMaurer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Completely!

      A data service is one that gave enough campaign donations to the Bush campaign. A telecommunications service is one that didn't. ;-)

  2. Well then... by swordboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Then the FCC needs to set customer service guidelines. There is no incentive for the cablecos to screw over their customers since they have a monopoly in many areas.

    The other day I spent 3 hours trying to get my fucking address changed. My bill still goes to my old residence (the modem works at the new house). I finally gave up because they are so damn stupid. It isn't worth my time.

    Give me a choice or implement some sort of law that required them to resolve my issue in a timely manner or pay me for my time.

    Damnit

    --

    Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    1. Re:Well then... by toupsie · · Score: 2

      Amen! No one is ever responsible for anything at the cable company. Since most of the time, they are the only game in town, they can draw employees from the bottom of the food chain and unleash them on paying customers.

      --
      Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
    2. Re:Well then... by sharkey · · Score: 3, Funny

      There is no incentive for the cablecos to screw over their customers since they have a monopoly in many areas.

      Quite the opposite. Since the cable companies have a monopoly in most, if not all areas, they can screw their customers over without fear of losing them to another cable company.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    3. Re:Well then... by Tackhead · · Score: 2
      > No one is ever responsible for anything at the cable company. Since most of the time, they are the only game in town, they can draw employees from the bottom of the food chain and unleash them on paying customers.

      So, in answer to the original poster's question - there is no difference between a cable company and a telco. ;-)

    4. Re:Well then... by ergo98 · · Score: 2

      Where do you live? In my area the cablecos marketshare is being dramatically eroded by satellite services (including mid-speed 2-way as well), and many of the cable cos have latched onto high speed internet access as one of the selling points to encourage people to keep cable (it worked. I love some of the satellite services and features, but I also like high speed cable internet access). Additionally high speed DSL access has made massive inroads, and 2.5G wireless access is looking to extend the competition. 10 years ago it'd be fair to say that cablecos had a monopoly, but I really don't think that is true for the majority of people.

      On top of all of that, a lot of the time that people are bitching about something they're bitching without reason (and as stated following, I include myself in that category). For the past 2 weeks I've been griping to anyone that will listen about how my cable modem was giving back 600ms ping times and horribly unrealiable throughput. Turns out that it was that the cable I ran got crimped in a door and must be noisy now, as replacing it gave me those 10ms pings I know and love.

    5. Re:Well then... by oyenstikker · · Score: 2

      In theory this is true. In the past this has been true. But it seems more and more, competing companies compete with their lawyers and marketing, not with their engineers, prices, or service. The lawyers get rich. The MBAs get rich. The engineers get frustrated, the prices go up, the service deptarment doesn't have resources to fix anything, and the customer STILL doesn't have a better option. (They just think they do cause the TV ad told them so)

      --
      The masses are the crack whores of religion.
    6. Re:Well then... by unitron · · Score: 2
      "...just call the city :)...

      That would be the city where relatives of the politicians were stockholders in the original cable company before it was bought out by TW-AOL or AT&T or whoever?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    7. Re:Well then... by isdnip · · Score: 2

      That's not normally the FCC's bailiwick, which is to deal with more industry-specific and technical issues. If they bill you wrong, or screw up the address, then there is plenty of other recourse. Forget that they are a cableco. They are somebody to whom you owe money. State laws generally apply, and whether they're a cableco or a bakery or a lawn service, payment issues are covered by consumer protection. Your state Attorney General's office might help.

  3. totally backwards by ethereal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Y'know, I don't care about the cable regulation one way or the other as much as some people, but I think the FCC has really missed the boat on their classification of the service here. What people have demonstrated that they want, time and time again, is connectivity. We want a high-speed telecommunications service. If we want an information service too, we'll get a web browser, or something like that. We don't need the FCC to decide for us what we want; we know what we want.

    It's the bundling of connectivity with services that is slowing all of these rollouts, IMHO - if we could get bandwidth from one company, and mail/news/web access from another, then the market would quickly determine the best bandwidth providers as well as the best mail/news/web access providers. This FCC action is limiting the scope of such unbundling, which seems like a step backwards to me.

    --

    Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and

    1. Re:totally backwards by billnapier · · Score: 2, Informative
      Y'know, I don't care about the cable regulation one way or the other as much as some people, but I think the FCC has really missed the boat on their classification of the service here. What people have demonstrated that they want, time and time again, is connectivity. We want a high-speed telecommunications service. If we want an information service too, we'll get a web browser, or something like that. We don't need the FCC to decide for us what we want; we know what we want.

      I have to disagree that the FCC missed the boat on their classification. Based on current regulation (Telecom Act of 1996), Cable-Modem service is an Information Service!


      INFORMATION SERVICE.--The term ''information service'' means the offering of
      a capability for generating, acquiring, storing, transforming, processing, retrieving, utilizing,
      or making available information via telecommunications, and includes electronic publishing,
      but does not include any use of any such capability for the management, control, or operation
      of a telecommunications system or the management of a telecommunications service.

      The FCC is just interpreting the laws that Congress has passed! And I agree with their interpretation. But that doesn't mean I agree that Cable companies should be able to keep their networks closed. I think that Data Services (people who deliver raw bandwith) should (probably) be regulated like Voice traffic and enforced competition. But the FCC really isnt' the one to blame, it's Congress. Write your Congress-person!

    2. Re:totally backwards by nickynicky9doors · · Score: 2

      The Status Quo Ante prevails simply because the internet is a cultural tsunami that existing institutions are incapable of servicing or managing. The cultural forces that are pushing the internet will reinvent most aspects of culture but the status quo ante everfearful of the new must struggle to redefine the future in the guise of the past and face known devils rather than face the unknown. When the going gets weird and 'the weird turn pro' the most part of society begins a cautious advance with it's back turned to the future.

      --

      heuristic algorithm seeks stochastic relationship
    3. Re:totally backwards by oyenstikker · · Score: 2

      They don't care about 'We'. They care about Joe Average. 'We', the /. readers, know what we want and want to get it ourselves. Joe Average wants "that new-fangled internetty thing that uncle Jeb done got" or "to keep up with the Jones, who have the internet on their computer! We are better than them, so we'll get it too. Were do I buy the internet?" Joe Average wants one company to supply everything. Joe Average _needs_ one company to supply everything, because he doesn't want to spend hours and hours reading technical manuals to figure out how to do it all himself. And I really don't blame him.

      --
      The masses are the crack whores of religion.
  4. Re:Bad Ruling by lawyamike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why would it be awful if there are "less mom & pop ISPs in the next 2 years"? Personally, I do not care whether I access my broadband connection thanks to a sweet little old lady or because it is provided by a cold, heartless corporation. I care only that the connection is reliable and inexpensive. On both counts, it is more likely that a large corporation will meet my needs.

    Do not fear consolidation. So long as it does not accord power over price or facilitate oligarchic coordination, there is much virtue in allowing big old corps to take advantage of their economies of scale. Similarly, do not lionize atomistic competition and tiny competitors. They are the companies that go under long before your warranty has expired.

  5. Surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So one of the conditions of the AOL-Time Warner Merger was that they shared their lines with other ISPs and now this ruling says they do not have to? Something seems very fishy to me

  6. Law by analogy by crow · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem with technology and law is that we're dealing with new things. The government doesn't have specific rules for how to handle things, so it makes analogies to existing technologies. Those analogies are never perfect.

    In this case, is letting another company offer ISP services over your cable lines analogous to letting another company offer TV channels over your cable lines, or is it analogous to letting another long distance carrier complete calls to your phone customers.

    From my perspective, I don't see as this is a bad ruling from a legal perspective.

    1. Re:Law by analogy by Jerf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In this case, is letting another company offer ISP services over your cable lines analogous to letting another company offer TV channels over your cable lines, or is it analogous to letting another long distance carrier complete calls to your phone customers.

      Errr, you are aware both of these things happen? Cable companies are obligated to provide local channels on their cable service, and whenever you call someone on the other side of the country, a different long distance service completes the call. By your own argument, then, this ruling makes no sense.

      You started off well, by ranting about the evils of analogies, but fell into the the trap yourself when you tried to draw some of your own.

      Let's stay out of analogies. This ruling hands all the power to the local monopoly. This never works out well, and I don't see why this will work out well this time, either. (This isn't an analogy, this is an observed historical pattern.) Higher prices and lower service, here we come!

    2. Re:Law by analogy by 4of12 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      problem with technology and law is that we're dealing with new things.

      Exactly.

      It looks so stupid to me that the rulings have come out differently, largely as a result of myopic readings of earlier rulings on the telco industry before the advent of digital technology.

      You can see where they're going to have to revisit and reverse the rulings because of two possible developments:

      1. The cable company ISPs customer's start using voice over IP for a gradually increasing share of their telephone service.
      2. The telephone company DSL lines get upgraded to the point where they can carry the odd digital cable channel.

      Since I'm on a roll right now, I'll just throw in my complaint that FCC regulation and sale of the EM spectrum does not appear to go into the visible. Wouldn't you rather that lighted billboards pay for the privilege of radiating into the environment?

      --
      "Provided by the management for your protection."
  7. So what? by Enry · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I guess as someone who can run his own servers (and does so) off a cable modem, I can't see why I would want to use ATTBI or Earthlink or AOL over my cable line. We've already seen what happens to DSL when Verizon points at Covad who points back at Verizon. There's the slight possibility that Earthlink (for example) might have a nicer TOS than ATTBI, but I doubt it.

    All *I* want from a provider is the following:

    Pipe (fast is preferable)
    If it's broke, go fix it.
    Don't bother me with anything else. I don't want your news feeds, I don't want your portal site, I don't want your e-mail offers, I don't want your e-mail server.

    So far, ATTBI is doing most of that. I have to prod them a few times if something gets real strange, but otherwise I've been very satisfied with the service I've received over the past 4 years.

    1. Re:So what? by clump · · Score: 5, Interesting
      All *I* want from a provider is the following:

      Pipe (fast is preferable)
      If it's broke, go fix it.
      Don't bother me with anything else. I don't want your news feeds, I don't want your portal site, I don't want your e-mail offers, I don't want your e-mail server.

      Does having more competition or less competition help you get what you want? If you have only one seller, is that seller more or less likely to care about your needs?

      Cable companies have enjoyed government protection for years. They are at a level they would not be at had the government not interfered. Funny though, its ok to take a government handout, but not ok to accept that there may be consequences to that handout?

    2. Re:So what? by jc42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      > So far, ATTBI is doing most of that.

      So have they stopped blocking ports 25 and 80 in your neighborhood? Around here, those are blocked. You can't run your own SMTP or HTTP servers, at least not on the standard port.

      Presumably this is because they're an "information service", by which they mean that if you start supplying information over their lines, you're a competitor and they'll shut you down.

      Hereabouts, if you want to put your family pictures up on your own web site, you're in violation of the TOS. You're supposed to put them on the web space that they give you "for free".

      Remember a few months back when people found that MSN was taking things like pictures from customers' web sites and using them in ads?

      "All your information are belong to us."

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    3. Re:So what? by EisPick · · Score: 2

      So have they stopped blocking ports 25 and 80 in your neighborhood?

      This doesn't make sense to me. If they were really blocking your outbound traffic on port 80, you wouldn't even be able to send http requests from a browser. Are they forcing you to use their proxy server?

    4. Re:So what? by Enry · · Score: 2

      They have not been blocked in over 6 months. I run HTTP, STMP, and SSH servers on my local box and it can be seen everywhere.

    5. Re:So what? by Enry · · Score: 2

      But we've seen what can happen by introducing competition into an existing monopoly. DSL is pretty much dead unless you're an ILEC.

      I'm not saying competition is bad, I'm saying that this competition won't get me anything with the laws and regulations as they are.

    6. Re:So what? by Courageous · · Score: 2

      If they were really blocking your outbound traffic on port 80...

      Inbound traffic is what they block.

      C//

    7. Re:So what? by EisPick · · Score: 2

      Okay, if they're blocking inbound traffic on port 80, how are they not screening out responses from Web servers when you're browsing?

    8. Re:So what? by jc42 · · Score: 2

      > He said they are blocking port 25 & 80, incoming.

      Actually, in rereading my message, I see that this wasn't actually stated. Of course, it's the only thing that makes sense in the context of the rest of the message. (It just didn't occur to me that a /. reader wouldn't understand. ;-)

      Also, I've been told by some friends in another part of the metro area that their port 25 is blocked in both directions. So outgoing mail has to be handed over to ATT's mailer. This is, of course, a huge waste of time for messages that could be delivered instantly.

      Presumably ATT wants all email messages stored on their machines so they can run software that examines it for interesting things. I can't think of any other reason they'd force such a gratuitous waste of their own disk space on customers. Lest anyone think this is paranoid, Ill remind you again that MSN was caught doing this sort of thing a few months back, and using contents of customers' data for their own commercial purposes. Do you trust ATT more than MS?

      Outgoing connections to port 25 work fine on my home machine. I sometimes like to demo email by doing "telnet 25" and typing the SMTP commands, including a "MAIL From: " line identifying the source as some celebrity. Then I challenge them to find evidence of where it really came from. This can be a real eye opener for people who are naive about the concept of email forgery. (Not that snail mail is much more difficult to forge.)

      (Some of my friends are accustomed to getting personal messages from dubya@whitehouse.gov, and know to send the reply back to me. One of these days one of them will get a real message from Georgie, and I'll get the reply. ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    9. Re:So what? by DA-MAN · · Score: 2, Informative

      Or pehaps they are doing something a little more repsonsible like not allowing their users to connect to outside open relays. This allows them to stop spammers on the fly or at least make their network a little less attractive to spammers. I personally think that's a good thing.

      I'd be pissed if their SMTP server, however, only allowed e-mail to be sent from the ATTBI.COM domain and I wasn't able to connect to outside SMTP servers, however that is not the case. In fact in my area I can both connect to outside mail servers and recieve connections on port 25. I'm just trying to dispell yet another conspiracy theory.

      Also what disk space is used to send an e-mail. Just the queue, and that empties itself after the message is delivered.

      --
      Can I get an eye poke?
      Dog House Forum
    10. Re:So what? by Phexro · · Score: 2

      "Okay, if they're blocking inbound traffic on port 80, how are they not screening out responses from Web servers when you're browsing?"

      TCP/IP uses a 3-way handshake. Approximately, it goes like this
      (c == client, e.g. system initiating the connection; s = server)

      c ---> s SYN
      c <--- s SYN+ACK
      c ---> s ACK

      (see this page for more information, e.g. sequence numbers)

      Therefore, any packet which is destined for port 80, and has only SYN set is a packet which initiates a connection.

      The command in Linux 2.4.x would be:

      IPTABLES -A input -j DROP -d a.b.c.d -p tcp --syn --dport 80

  8. It sucks, but there IS a difference by Logic+Bomb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Though the eventual effect of the ruling may stink, it can't be denied that in light of existing regulations the decision-makers have a point. The primary use of the lines in cable systems at this point is indeed information delivery, whether it be TV signals or data, and there are no open-access laws for info delivery services. It's sort of like the ruling declaring PayPal is not a bank noted in an earlier Slashdot story today. What these decisions recognize is that the underlying legal structure needs to be updated to better recognize new technologies. I think we tend to expect these pseudo-legislative regulatory agencies like the FCC to be the top-level policy makers in their domains. In reality, the Congress needs to deal with these issues so that the regulatory agencies can put fair rules in place.

    1. Re:It sucks, but there IS a difference by Jon+Howard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The primary use of the lines in cable systems at this point is indeed information delivery, whether it be TV signals or data, and there are no open-access laws for info delivery services.

      The same is true of telephones and other communications devices. Strictly speaking, it's more than delivery when the data flows in two directions - that's what we call communication. I think it's pretty clear that information delivery is an attempt to recategorize something we already have laws to govern.

    2. Re:It sucks, but there IS a difference by quantaman · · Score: 2

      I see your point but the problem is " cable internet companies from having to share their lines to competition."
      The area of the service they are regulating here is entirly communicative. If they told the cable companies not to offer cable service to competing cable companies you'd have a point. However, here the fact that the primary use of the lines is information oriented (TV) is trivial. All I can derive from this is the government apparently considers the internet to be an information service and phone calls are the only reason the baby bells have to share. This stance of the internet being primarly as information service is in contradiction to even AOL adds.

      --
      I stole this Sig
  9. My Prediction by toupsie · · Score: 3, Interesting
    (b) cable companies limiting the content and services you can reach over their IP infrastructure

    This will never happen or if it does, it won't last long. The greatest way to lose a customer is to limit their choices with your product. The second my cable company says I can't visit xyz.com over their IP network, I get a new provider and tell my friends about it. Since, I don't think my response will be unique, I doubt that sort of policy will last for the cable company.

    However, I don't think this will cause a rapid rollout of IP over cable just a raising of the rates charged to customers.

    Cable is a dead tech anyways ready to be thrown on the trash heap with ISDN. I am sure the future of communications for the home user will be wireless. Just look at the telephone. There are now more cell phones than POTS phones in the US.

    --
    Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
    1. Re:My Prediction by KingKire64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I largely agree with you analysis however i dont think you are right about a dead technology. I have to use cable at my new apt b/c dsl is not avialible. b4 i was paying $50 a month and my dl speed peaked at 80 K/s. Im paying $40 per month now with cable and am getting upwards of 250 K/s(Any time of the day). With a comparison like that i dont think cable is going to die anytime soon unless DSL providers get thier act together.

      --
      "All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
    2. Re:My Prediction by brogdon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "This will never happen or if it does, it won't last long. The greatest way to lose a customer is to limit their choices with your product. The second my cable company says I can't visit xyz.com over their IP network, I get a new provider and tell my friends about it"

      That's just the point. You won't be able to. Cable companies have a monopoly in their area because of the significant barrier to market involved with planting cable in an area. There's not enough ROI to justify the huge expense of laying the pipe when you're only going to get half the customers (on average).

      Thus when your cable company (who probably runs their own ISP like Comcast or has an exclusive agreement with one partner ISP) says "You can't run this P2P app, or go to these questionable sites or newsgroups", you're going to either deal with it, or start hooking a phoneline back into your PC.

      And yes, DSL is an alternative, but it's not available everywhere, so many people will have to deal with the possibility of choosing between a crappy cable monopoly and a dialup.

      --


      This tagline is umop apisdn.
    3. Re:My Prediction by Courageous · · Score: 2

      I am sure the future of communications for the home user will be wireless.

      No way. Information theory just doesn't support this. Cell phones need precious little bandwidth. You can't say the same of data feeds which, while may not use gobs of bandwidth on average, chew it down at an insane pace in bursts.

      C//

    4. Re:My Prediction by ncc74656 · · Score: 2
      The reason cable is big right now and will still be big in the near future is because there are lots of people that are in the boon-docks and are not near a wireless access point or can't get DSL.

      ...and even if DSL is available, in some cases cable-modem service is cheaper and/or better. I have cable-modem service at home and use DSL at work. Sprint can't keep a DSL connection up to save itself; it's not unusual to have to reset the DSL modem once or twice a day to get it to reestablish its connection. By comparison, Cox doesn't have nearly as much trouble keeping its network running.

      For about the same amount of money, I can get 1.5 Mbps downstream via cable or 512 kbps downstream via DSL. Do the math. The one advantage of the DSL line is the faster upstream speed...it's SDSL. Upstream on the cable-modem line is 128 kbps...not blazing fast, but it's enough for a personal webserver that sees low-4-digit traffic every month and a personal mail server.

      (Yes, I can run whatever services on the cable-modem link that I want. Port 25 is blocked if you have a dynamic IP address, but static IPs are only $10 more. Basically, I have a fat pipe with a Supernews subscription thrown in for free...and that's all I want. Cox also runs mail servers, but the only mail I get through lvcm.com is the occasional message from dyndns.org.)

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    5. Re:My Prediction by richieb · · Score: 2
      Thus when your cable company (who probably runs their own ISP like Comcast or has an exclusive agreement with one partner ISP) says "You can't run this P2P app, or go to these questionable sites or newsgroups", you're going to either deal with it, or start hooking a phoneline back into your PC.

      I don't like the cable monopoly either. However, if cable companies are too restrictive with Internet access, people will be more motivated to switch.

      With wireless networks it is now possible to provide high speed internet, without having to actually run a wire to you house. There is an opportunity there...

      --
      ...richie - It is a good day to code.
    6. Re:My Prediction by richieb · · Score: 2
      Wrong! Read up about UWB. For example this Cringley column.

      --
      ...richie - It is a good day to code.
  10. why must this go on... by Ed+Bugg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Arrgghhh, this actually burns me... I can't believe that cable companies are still allowed their monopolies in this day and age... With companies like Charter Communications predicting and running ads that they will be able to do everything for you in the video/audio spectrum in the near future (including phone service), how can you not classify them as a telecommunications company.

    I feel that more than likely the only reason they haven't rolled out phone service is that they, don't want to be classified and regulated as a telecommunications service, and stuff like this only just keeps them going.

    How long will it be before the is no difference between what "real" telecommunication companies and cable services. It's just the wire and the protocol that runs over it, but on top of that it's just data to both of them and they are providing the same services.

    The best thing a "Bell" company can do right now is setup a partnership with a video distribution company (Blockbuster) and start rolling out "Video on Demand" services. I don't think it would be hard for something like DSL connections to split off a few channels for video.

    --
    -- Ed Bugg --You have freedom of choice, but not of consequences.--
  11. What's up, Ma Warner? by DaveWood · · Score: 2

    Thereby proving, yet again, that our government's regulatory and judicial agencies are, in their current form, unable to resist influence by sufficiently large, wealthy, and "powerful" companies which they are supposed to police.

    Oh, you can make all kinds of arguments about how competition on these kinds of networks doesn't really make sense, but these are primarily engineering arguments. Yet the best decision seems to be to allow competition, because the overwhelming, extremely repetitive evidence is that allowing too much vertical integration in infrastructure industries like telecom results in abominable prices and worse service.

    Or perhaps somebody actually believes this semantic hair-splitting nonsense about about cable being an "information" carrier rather than a "telephony" carrier?

  12. What should the policy be? by crow · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems the editorial position here is that cable companies should be forced to allow other ISPs access. I'm not sure that's the right way of doing it.

    The real question is whether you define operating the cable network (the physical network) as a separate business from providing data over that network. With current cable systems, the business of providing content and the business of providing connections are one and the same. At some point, it might become practical to change that, much like some states have done with electricity. You would get a separate bill for having a live cable connected to your house from the bill for whatever television content you received, quite possibly from separate companies.

  13. Bureaucracies and Convergence by anonicon · · Score: 2

    Hmmm. Between the recent law that will efectively allow Baby Bells to kill off their DSL competition and this decision that shuts competition off from cable networks, I see the great convergence for broadband will be coming sooner rather than later.

    Traditionally cable companies provided an optional service - cable TV (not really as critical as the phone). I have to wonder when cable companies will be forced (again) to open up their broadband networks to competition since their technology isn't substantially different to the enduser than DSL is (although usually much faster). If or when that happens, here's hoping that the prices actually go down - so far massive telecom deregulation has had the market effect of raising prices. Gotta love paying $27 a month for basic telephone service with touchtone...

    1. Re:Bureaucracies and Convergence by dada21 · · Score: 2

      Its not deregulation that makes it $27 a month. Its the fact that other regulations prevent competitors from coming in and running their own lines to attempt to break into the market. It's the fact that cell phone minutes get cheaper and cheaper, and its IS getting more and more expensive to support the old land line format as more customers drop it (my ex-wife's apartment complex has almost 30% without local phone service). Let them charge $27 a month. Eventually, a competitor will come, and when they do, you'll say goodbye to your local phone company, maybe forever.

  14. The Absurdity Is In the Distinctions We Make by FreeUser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Though the eventual effect of the ruling may stink, it can't be denied that in light of existing regulations the decision-makers have a point. The primary use of the lines in cable systems at this point is indeed information delivery, whether it be TV signals or data, and there are no open-access laws for info delivery services.

    Once the information becomes bidirectional it can no longer reasonably be called "delivery."

    But then, the entire notion of applying one set of rules to communications links that carry primarilly voice, vs. another set of rules for (often the same) infrastructure that primarilly carries digital (computer) data, vs. yet another set of rules for (often the same) infrastructure that primarilly carries video/entertainment data demonstrates how completely head-up-their-ass our government regulators really are.

    It is absurd.

    ISPs should operate under the same rules as Telcos and Cable providors, with the same priveleges (common carrier status) and the same requirements (allowing access by competitors to their wire/fibre/subspace beakon). Ideally, the latter should be nationalized (a dirty word, I know, but better than the mess we have now) and treated like a public road, with ISPs, Cable providors, and Telcos accessing the hardwire infrastructure under the same conditions and rules. Then, and only then, will we have real competition, and a flourishing market, in all of these arenas.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    1. Re:The Absurdity Is In the Distinctions We Make by FreeUser · · Score: 2

      Finally, the federal government has not built or maintained roads since the National Road was built from Washington to Vandalia, IL. Since then they've given the states money to build federal highways, which the states are then responsible for maintaining.

      Which would be a perfectly fine solution, but to get there you have to first nationalize the infrastructure. Then, if you want, turn it over to the states for management and maintenance. But this local monopoly on the one information road into my home is rediculous, and far more damaging than the government equivelent would be.

      There are some areas government needs to be involved in, like roads and information highways and the maintenance of a public commons, if you want to have any kind of non-monopoly marketplace whatsoever.

      --
      The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
    2. Re:The Absurdity Is In the Distinctions We Make by Graymalkin · · Score: 2

      ISPs should not be forced to operate under the same guidelines as common carriers because they are not carriers. ISPs do not carry traffic, telecom companies carry traffic. An ISP just provides a POP, a transition point between the virtual and real, for the customer. Almost all of an ISP's service is virtual and thus cannot carry traffic which would make regulating them as a carrier ridiculous.

      Saying the status of "delivery" is contingent on the bidirectional nature of the data path is ludicrous. The cable companies provide the carrier equipment for data. Actually carrying the data makes them a delivery service.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
  15. Nope, not really by DaveWood · · Score: 2

    The primary purpose of cable lines was information delivery, before we started using them to carry internet traffic.

    The very networking functionality being "regulated" here puts the lie to your assertion. Delivery is no longer the only significant purpose of cable, and it's not in any way the purpose of cable broadband.

  16. Disagree by DaveWood · · Score: 2

    You can't lose customers if there's no one to switch to. Since the FCC regulates regional cable monopolies, that only leaves the phone company, which may or may not offer comparable service.

    1. Re:Disagree by the_2nd_coming · · Score: 2

      DSL if you are lucky, and Satelite too.

      I want to know what the heck is in the FCC's head that they think Monopolies are a good way to go for things like this?

      I think they keep thinking back to the turn of the century, when there were 50 phone companys and each had their own line running through town.

      to bad the FCC to to stupid to realize that technology has moved beyond the one carrier per line limit.

      --



      I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
  17. umm, ya got it backwards by GMontag · · Score: 5, Informative

    So one of the conditions of the AOL-Time Warner Merger was that they shared their lines with other ISPs and now this ruling says they do not have to? Something seems very fishy to me

    This ruling is that cable providers do not need to share lines UNLESS they have been specifically told to do so, like AOL-Time Warner was told as a requirement of their merger.

    So, in this case, the "big mean corp" is the one forced to share.

    From the portion of the article fully visible above:
    Unlike telephone companies, cable companies are required only to share their lines when specifically told to by the government. As a condition of the AOL Time Warner merger, that company was forced to offer its consumers a choice of Internet service providers on its high-speed lines.

    1. Re:umm, ya got it backwards by unitron · · Score: 2

      AOL-Time Warner is sharing. They're offering the consumers the choice between Roadrunner (which they own) and AOL (which they own). No monopoly there, right?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  18. Ironic by mjh · · Score: 5, Informative
    Just today I called up Earthlink to switch from my Time Warner Road Runner account to their competing service which exists entirely as a condition of the merger between the AOL & TW.

    The Earthlink has a whole bunch of advantages of the RR account.

    • It's cheaper
    • It provides free, nationwide unlimited dialup
    • It allows me to run servers
    • It has no installation cost
    • and it will soon have reasonably priced static IP addresses (additional $15/mo for Earthlink vs additional $150/mo for RR!)

    This is what competition does. I find it short sited that the government grants a monopoly to the cable company by not letting anyone else lay cable, but then doesn't turn around and enforce shared access! It's just luck that AOL/TW is being forced to open up their access.

    --
    Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
    1. Re:Ironic by Courageous · · Score: 2

      I find it short sited that the government grants a monopoly to the cable company by not letting anyone else lay cable...

      They don't. For example, here in San Diego, any cable company can compete with the other cable companies. Theoretically. But of course they _don't_. It would be too expensive, because by definition if you do this, you decrease the cable-length:customer-density ratio.

      C//

    2. Re:Ironic by mjh · · Score: 2

      TW RR in Charlotte is $44.95/mo.

      Where do you get $8/mo hosting?

      --
      Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
  19. wrongo. by El+Camino+SS · · Score: 3, Interesting


    There are now more cell phones than POTS phones in the US.

    Riiiiiiight. I believe you.

    I am sure the future of communications for the home user will be wireless.

    Yeah, once you figure out a scheme to keep information in the open air safe, secure, impossible to have multipath issues, clean signal strengths 100% of the time, and a way to cram fiber bandqwidth quality routing hubs over the EM spectrum WHICH BY ITS VERY NATURE IS LIMITED.

    Good luck. I would suggest you smoke more drugs.

  20. I hate to point this out... by GMontag · · Score: 2

    Warner is the ONLY company mentioned in this post that CONTINUES to be regulated.

    So, I am missing how your pointing to them in your subject line has anything to do with your first statement:

    Thereby proving, yet again, that our government's regulatory and judicial agencies are, in their current form, unable to resist influence by sufficiently large, wealthy, and "powerful" companies which they are supposed to police.

    Perhaps if you can revise your statement and use a company that has actually been able to buy influence (sorry, don't try Enron, all of their influence was with a prior administration, the current beurocrats ignored them and ignored the beurocrats they replaced last year) your post might read a little better.

    1. Re:I hate to point this out... by DaveWood · · Score: 2

      Oh look, a republican spinmeister. Troll on, brother...

      Anyone who does think for themselves can read about Enron here...

      HINT: People believe your parrot-head antics more often when you learn to spell.

    2. Re:I hate to point this out... by DaveWood · · Score: 2

      Hah. Hahahahahahaha. :)

  21. Nothing exists anymore... by swagr · · Score: 2

    ...except inconsistencies, found between the lines of legal documents. They are the ONLY thing that matters in today's Business world - and since money is the only thing that talks these days - the only things that matter period.

    great.

    --

    -... --- .-. . -.. ..--..
    1. Re:Nothing exists anymore... by geekoid · · Score: 2

      No, votes count. If more people would make informative votes, it would be less of a problem.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  22. Competition Doesn't Make Sense With Roads Either by FreeUser · · Score: 2

    Oh, you can make all kinds of arguments about how competition on these kinds of networks doesn't really make sense, but these are primarily engineering arguments.

    And they are misapplied arguments to boot. Comeptition with respect to roads and highways doesn't make much sense either, unless you want to pave the planet and have ten streets servicing your driveway.

    The solution is simple. Make the road a public commons, accessible to all under the same terms and paid for as a public works, and allow competition to flourish where it does make sense: with car companies, shipping companies, taxicab companies, bicycles, etc.

    Substitute "cable," or "fibre" for road and "ISP," "Telco," and "Cable Providor" for car companies, shipping companies, etc. and you get the idea.

    The only way we are NOT going to have monopolies is by nationalizing the infrastructure and allowing business to compete for our patronage using the common, public wire on an equal basis.

    --
    The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
  23. Local Regulation is the problem by mc6809e · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The biggest thing holding broadband back is local regulation. More than 90% of cable companies have their local monopoly because the local government has created it. So you want to start your own cable company? Good luck trying to get the city to sell you a franchise. Local governments don't like the competition because they get a cut of the money the local monopoly makes. Competition would mean less money for them.

    Want to string up your own telephone lines? Sorry....you're not allowed to do that either. Hey they're just trying to "protect the public."

    This is not a national issue. Its 1000's of local governments standing in the way.

    1. Re:Local Regulation is the problem by Courageous · · Score: 2

      You're correct. But really, the regulation or lack thereof doesn't actually change anything. Here in San Diego, cable companies are free to compete across eachother's territories. None of them do, however. If you contemplate the situation for a while on your own, you'll see that it simply makes little sense for them to do so: competition decreases the wire:customer density, and that increases expenses notably.

      C//

    2. Re:Local Regulation is the problem by dada21 · · Score: 2

      And nothing prevents you from getting a few investors in your town and starting your own cable company. Get a few C-band satellite dish receivers, and distribute. If its too expensive to do it and sell service cheaper than the one who is servicing you now, there's your answer. If its cheaper, then why aren't you turning a profit?

  24. If you have any doubts.. by ftobin · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you have any doubts on which way the decision should have gone, you should read The Future of Ideas by Lawrence Lessig. In it, he explains how we accidentally got to this system of telephone companies being required to not control the content of the lines, even though they control the wiring and switches, but on the other hand, cable companies are allowed to completely control the wiring, connectors (cable boxes), and content.

    The internet is the way it is (great, that is), due to lack of control over the content. For example, I can talk however I want to another computer on the internet, just as long as I abide by a few rules (e.g., using IP). The potential for innovation is great when you have an open-content and open-controls (routers, firewalls) system.

    At line point AT&T owned the entire telephone network, being granted a government-approved monopoly. At this time, however, you weren't allowed to connect non-approved devices to any part of the network. This was done to ensure the 'stability' of the network (the trusted-client ideology). When the monster was broken up, these restrictions were removed, and this helped ensure the Internet could grow over the telephone lines (e.g., everyone could connect their own modem without needing approval).

    With cable companies controlling every aspect of communication, however, the potential for innovation is extremely limited. Having to ask for permission to communicate on a network entirely destroys the freedom to experiment and try new ideas. This is why cable companies should be regulated like telephone companies.

    Quoting from the book:

    The argument of the cable industry in favor of monopoly was simple: We need, they argued, incentives to risk the investment to build out cable TV. That build-out would be worth it to us only if we could be certain to recover out investment. This certainty would be adequately provided if we had complete control over the programming on our network. If we get to pick and choose the shows we run, and we get protected monopoly status in the local markets we run cable for, then we will have sufficient incentive to build out cable to secure our needs.

    Not a bad deal, if you can get it. And even though "every major policy on how cable should be regulated recommended that cable operators be required to provide at least some degree of non-discrimatory access to unaffiliated program supliers," Congress and the FCC ignored these recommendations. Cable was given control over the physical infrastructure that build their network and over the code layer that made their network run.

    I could go on and on, but I strongly recommend you read "The Future of Ideas". Lessig is technically-aware, but he writes to layman. He is a master of the arguments for freedom in cyberspace.

    It's interesting to also note that DSL, since it is deemed a communications network, is regulatory-required to be 'open'. This means the telephone companies are forced to allow other ISP competition to use DSL lines.

    1. Re:If you have any doubts.. by karmawarrior · · Score: 2
      At line point AT&T owned the entire telephone network, being granted a government-approved monopoly.
      Can we, at least, nail this myth on the head? AT&T never had a government-approved monopoly. What it had was a practical monopoly, competition was close to impossible because to compete, one had to dig up roads to areas where you might, in a fair world, get 50% market penetration, and where, without the active, supporting, help of AT&T you would have a network that would initially have nobody phonable.

      AT&T accepted regulation, given it knew it faced potential structural changes or even wholesale nationalisation if it was seen by the voters, and thus the government, as anti-consumer. But whenever the government saw an opportunity to introduce competition with AT&T's active help, the government did step in and force the issue.

      The reason for the successful break-up of AT&T wasn't that it had unlawfully obtained a monopoly or that the government had "given" it one and had changed its mind, it was that the government wanted to make use of new technologies to encourage competitors, and needed AT&T to proactively help those competitiors to work. Needless to say, Ma Bell wasn't happy about this, and stonewalled.

      Having a monopoly because you're first, and it's just too difficult for others to get into the market without you actively helping, is very different from having one because the government has declared you the only rightful operator (as in, say, the Post Office, ironically constitutionally mandated so those pesky libertarians can't do a thing about it hehe, or through ownership of a patent, or whatever), or because, as in Microsoft's or Standard Oil's case, you've cut off the air supply to competitors, blackmailing your suppliers and customers to prevent potential competitors from being able to get off the ground.

      --
      KMSMA (WWBD?)
    2. Re:If you have any doubts.. by ftobin · · Score: 2

      Can we, at least, nail this myth on the head? AT&T never had a government-approved monopoly. What it had was a practical monopoly, competition was close to impossible because to compete, one had to dig up roads to areas where you might, in a fair world, get 50% market penetration, and where, without the active, supporting, help of AT&T you would have a network that would initially have nobody phonable.

      Ah, but AT&T did have the force of law behind its control. This is more precisely what I wanted to get across. Quoth Lessig from "The Future of Ideas" (pg 30):

      For much of the twentieth centurey, it was essentially illegal even to experiment with the telephone system. It was a crime to attach a device to the telephone system that AT&T didn't build or expressly authorize. In 1956, for example, a company built a device called "Hush-a-Phone." The Hush-a-Phone was a simple piece of plastic that attached to the mouthpiece of a telephone. Its design was to block noise in a room so that someone on the other end of the line could better hear what was being said. The device had no connection to the technology of the phone, save the technology of the plastic receiver. All it did was block noise, the way a user might block noise by cupping his hand over the phone.

      When the Hush-a-Phone was released on the market, AT&T objected. This was a "foreign attachmen." Regulations forbade any foreign attachments without AT&T's permission. AT&T had not given Hush-a-Phone any such permission. The FCC agreed with AT&T. Hush-a-Phone was history.

      This was not only a government-approved monopoly, but it was even a government-sponsored monopoly. AT&T's rules protecting itself had the force of government law.

    3. Re:If you have any doubts.. by squiggleslash · · Score: 2
      This is true, but it has little or nothing to do with being specifically government backed. This was AT&T deciding that it didn't want it's property tampered with. If the FCC hadn't existed (and I'm not even sure the FCC was relevent in this case), it would have been just as able to enforce this regulation through standard contracts, etc. Likewise a TV rental company could, if it chose, prevent people from hooking up an unapproved VCR if they wished - simple logistics prevents that from being enforceable at the moment, but it's certainly legally possible.

      In the case you're quoting, this isn't a government sponsored monopoly at all, it's a case where the government has to take action to prevent one and chose not to, in that one case.

      The US government did actually step in and break this monopoly on equipment in the mid-sixties (IIRC), feeling that AT&T were abusing their position.

      If another phone company had had the financial resources available to them to try, they would have been able to, at any time, go into direct competition with AT&T without the government being able to do a thing about it - barring more legislation. The reason no other phone company did was purely a logistics, cooperation, and financial issue, not a legislative one.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:If you have any doubts.. by ftobin · · Score: 2

      If the FCC hadn't existed (and I'm not even sure the FCC was relevent in this case), it would have been just as able to enforce this regulation through standard contracts, etc.

      This is, as you suggest, the critical issue. The idea is that the contract should not be as powerful as it is allowed to be. There are restraints that nullfy many terms of contracts depending on where you live (e.g., state by state laws can require certain warranty terms no matter what the contract says), contstitutional-rights relevance (you cannot contract away your rights), etc.

      I'll agree I may have mistated that the government sponsored the monopoly directly, but it did sponsor it indirectly through inaction by allowing terms of contract that violate the senses (mine, at least). The FCC actively made a decision to allow the AT&T terms to stand. Just as with your TV/VCR example; I'm not certain that it would be legally possible to contract that restriction, but if it is allowed, I would think this is a gross error.

    5. Re:If you have any doubts.. by karmawarrior · · Score: 2
      I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here because you did say government approved monopoly rather than a government sponsored one.


      The reason this is a big deal to me is that it's a central principle of a great deal of pseudo-libertarian propaganda that the only occasions on which any business gets a monopoly these days (or ever) are either if it has a really, really, good product that's the best, and recognised by consumers as such and is popular, or if governments have "granted" companies monopolies, as they have with patents and in the case of the Post Office.


      In AT&T's case, this is patently (arf arf, geddit?) false. AT&T had a monopoly so independent and concrete that they actually willingly accepted regulation, knowing that the alternative would have meant the destruction of the company, or its nationalisation. AT&T built a very expensive network, and because they were first, it became impossible to compete against them. This goes right to the present day where cable companies have rolled out similar infrastructure and are able to provide local phone service over it, but the costs are still too prohibitive and involve too much cooperation from a competitor for it to be viable for them. [Yes, AT&T Cable looked into it, and ditched the idea]


      Contracts are, by default, binding. It's the laws that governments introduce that weaken contracts, forcing parties to be reasonable and fair.


      And, personally, as I suspect you do too, I think it's a good thing when government does that. Unfortunately, the current political climate seems to live in a consensus where every government intervention into the markets is seen as a bad thing. Sometimes the propaganda and assumptions that build that consensus needs to be challenged.

      --
      KMSMA (WWBD?)
  25. Re:There is a serious lack of understanding here.. by NormalVisual · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That argument is valid, but only holds up in areas where there were not grants of monopoly by the local municipality. There are *lots* of cities in the U.S. where the incumbent cable company was protected from competition by the local government. Go to Virginia Beach, VA and look at the history of Cox Cable there if you'd like to see it in action.

    --
    Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  26. They may not _have_ to do it, but some are... by nvrrobx · · Score: 2, Informative

    According to this article, AT&T Broadband will be offering Earthlink service to both Washington state and Boston, MA customers within the next few months.

    I'm betting they're probably doing that so they aren't forced to as a condition of merging with Comcast, but hey, I'll take it... Earthlink's service has to be better than attbi.com! "Sure, we'll take half your bandwidth away, screw your reliability and charge you the same amount every month!!"

  27. Re:There is a serious lack of understanding here.. by ewhac · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Cable companies did it with all their own pennies. They get jack from the government; it's all from subscriber fees.

    This is not precisely correct. Nearly all cable TV providers operate under municipally-granted monopolies. No other cable company is allowed to come in and offer competing service. (This is what telecomm deregulation was ostensibly supposed to enable but, rather than go through the arduous process of actually competing on an open playfield, all the telecomm companies simply merged.)

    So yes, cable companies did build themselves with their own pennies, but they obtained those pennies from a government-maintained captive audience.

    Schwab

  28. Choice: blame your town by TheMCP · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The town I live in has choice of three phone companies, two cable companies (both of which offer cable modems), and a variety of other ISPs which offer various forms of connection including DSL or dual ISDN.

    Funny, but our rates are lower than surrounding communities. Imagine that.

    When I called the major monopolistic cable company and had problems with their customer service, I just called their competition instead and got more channels for a lower price.

    All of this happened because immediately after cable was deregulated, when the cable company's town monopoly contract came up for renewal, the town said "no, we're allowing competition now."

    If you don't have competition in your town, blame your town. Call your local representatives and demand to know why you don't have choice. Nag them when the monopoly contracts for the utilities come up. Get your neighbors involved. You might be surprised.

  29. AOL TimeWarner still hasn't opened their network by --daz-- · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a RoadRunner customer and AOL/TimeWarner still has yet to open their network to someone other than RoadRunner.

    IIRC, the deadline was one year from the merger, and I think it's been well over that. So, WTF?

  30. Ooooh! Big Shocker! by fobbman · · Score: 2

    When FCC head Michael Parker was just a mere commissioner he was the only FCC commissioner who voted for the AOL/Time Warner merger to go through without any stipulations whatsoever. And considering his father Colin Powell (yes, the Colin Powell) served on the AOL board of directors at the time that shouldn't surprise you either.

    Thanks, Michael. Now AOL/Time Warner can continue on with their complete ownership of the fastest home-based broadband Internet service available.

  31. Re:come again? by fishebulb · · Score: 2

    you didnt vote for bush, that makes no difference, the AMERICAN system for presidency always has been electorial vote. thats how it works, more electors voted for Bush than Gore.

    i personally dont like the electorial system, never have. but thats how it was at the time of the 2000 election. it should have been changed a hundred years or more ago. it should have been changed in 1999, but it wasnt. it should be changed and i hope it will.

    interesting sideline. under bushs plan for vote counting, he would win by roughly 500 votes, under gores plan, bush would still win, but by 1000+ votes.

  32. Cable is NOT a Common Carrier by markhb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think that the key difference between Cablecos and telcos is that Telcos, as far as POTS is concerned, are treated as common carriers: they have no editorial control over what goes over their lines, and have to file tariffs (rate cards) with the FCC and the state PUC which in turn need regulatory approval. Cablecos are not Common Carriers, so they get editorial control over what goes over their wires (ie, you don't get channels they don't supply, but in turn they have some liability for their content). The general feeling at the Federal and most state levels, from what I've seen, is that cable TV and internet services are not seen as sufficently vital to everyday life (as opposed to basic telephone service, which is considered to be such) for the providers to be granted Common Carrier status.

    --
    Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
  33. Re:is this correct? by karmawarrior · · Score: 2

    The telephone network in the US, at least, was built using private investment, predominantly by AT&T. The bulk of the increadibly expensive bit though was done 50-100 years ago, whereas the CATV lines are 20-30 years old.

    --
    KMSMA (WWBD?)
  34. Re:Bad Ruling by ichimunki · · Score: 2, Interesting

    After having my mom & pop ISP's bought out by slightly larger mom & pop's I switched to Qwest. Glad RoadRunner was available when Qwest decided to inflict MSN on their customers. I agree that cheaper and more reliable is better and that a large corporation seems poised to answer both of these concerns.

    Not knowing enough about either phone wires or cable lines: is there a way this can be structured so that the lines are owned by municipalities and the service can be provided by a free market of providers? That way all providers are on truly equal footing.

    As I see it now, it's ownership of the wires that's key. When "independent" companies are merely dependent on the larger wire-owning company for some of their basic services (like running a new line to a house, or switching locations), their service is always going to suffer in favor of the company that owns the wires. Even if the activities were all computer controlled and fairly instant there'd still be a delay while the "independent" provider relayed a request to the main provider.

    --
    I do not have a signature
  35. A possible reason for this by LordZardoz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There is at least one possible reason for this. Cable ISP's are competing with DSL based ISP's. It could be that the Government powers that be are beleiving that this competition will keep prices down. Its an intresting thing when you think about it. There arent many other things that come to mind where two radically different technologies are competing to provide essentially the same service.

    The only other possibility that comes to mind is power generation (Coal vs Hydro vs Nuclear). And as far as I know, you usually only have one type of power plant providing power to a given area.

    END COMMUNICATION

  36. competition in broadband by Cinematique · · Score: 2, Interesting

    i think there's enough competition just based in the fact that cable will have to compete against DSL. for competition, you only need one other player.

    just wait until ricochet gets back up and together. that'll make three.

    and personally, i'd rather have unlimited 175kbps wireless @ only $44.95 per month wouldn't you?

    furthermore - having several "providers" that share the same pipe really isn't competition. be realistic here.

  37. Multiple Services by cybermage · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hope that the FCC is headed in a direction toward defining Internet Service as something distinct from Cable or Telephone Services.

    Each service should have its own rules based solely on what is right for that service. Then, if companies bundle services, they should be required to play by the rules for both simultaneously.

    Example: If you are providing telephone service, which you must unbundle for competitors, and you decide to offer Internet service over the same platform, then combined regulations should require that you provide unbundled access to competitors wishing to provide Internet service as well.

    If cable companies have a monopoly over their network by regulation, and there is no defined rules for Internet service, then there is no combination of rules to require that it be open.

    If we want Cable providers to offer a choice, we should seek an FCC/Congress definition of Internet service that is akin to Long Distance Telephone service. With such a definition, people who own the wire into your house would have to give you a choice of providers and be required to allow interconnection.

  38. Who modded this funny? by JohnDenver · · Score: 2

    It's not funny, this is serious! I demand you mod this down immediately!!! It's not funny!!!

    --
    "Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
  39. We need a better last-mile. by psicE · · Score: 2

    Cable and DSL are technologies that are both dead and very much alive, depending on how you look at them. They're alive in the sense that there's no faster way for a home user to get an Internet connection (aside from business-priced lines, i.e. T3s and optical), but dead in the sense that there's far faster technologies available, like Ethernet, that work just as well for the last mile. The problem is, there is no Ethernet last mile.

    So, towns, counties, and/or states should start investing in last-mile Ethernet, and let the ISPs provide service over the lines. That way, everyone can choose between any of the ISPs in America, instead of only choosing between their monopoly telco and monopoly cable company. I'd certainly pay $50 a month for municipal Ethernet, especially considering ATTBI just raised my rate to $45.95.

  40. Shaking head by GMontag · · Score: 2

    fobbman Thanks, Michael. Now AOL/Time Warner can continue on with their complete ownership of the fastest home-based broadband Internet service available.

    Perhaps his reply should sound like this...

    Michael: "You are very welcome Mr. fobbman! Did you read the article at the top of the page at all? AOL-Time Warner will continue to provide competitive access becuase it was a condition of their merger, ordered by the government, just as it says above. Thus subjecting AOL to continued regulation just like a telco!"

    Michael: "Oh! By the way, my name is Michael POWELL *not* Parker."

  41. Question about local government rights by pyramid+termite · · Score: 2

    Can they require allowing other ISPs access to lines as part of a contract allowing a cable company franchise rights, or would FCC rules supercede that clause?

  42. Okay, here's some. by Spamalamadingdong · · Score: 2
    Whereas you have what amounts to structured wiring in a telco CO you have shared media in the cable environment. And, the router actually terminates the cable (think a Cisco 7246). So there's a lot less hardware.
    So you split the bandwidth at the head end of the cable, or you allocate a second channel for the competitor's service and put another RF modem at the head end. This is close to trivial.
    So what are we talking about here? Allocating frequencies on the cable? There are only so many. How do you decide who gets one?
    ISTR a case not long ago where a competitor to a cable company tried to rent one of the un-used channels to provide a competitive cable-modem service. The cable company refused, and the courts agreed that the cable company could not be forced to rent its own lines to a competitor; there was no technical reason it could not have been done, only regulatory barriers to doing it.

    I think the solution is to divest both the phone and cable companies of their wires, and divide them into carriers and service providers. If the company that owns and maintains the wires has no interest in the services being delivered, they are in no position to discriminate against any comers because they're all paying the same rate anyway.

  43. Re:come again? Slightly offtopic by ncc74656 · · Score: 2
    Waaaaah...get over it already. The only reason the election dragged on forever was that Algore dragged it out, looking for any means possible to get a vote count that would change in his favor. It didn't matter to him whether it was a fair and accurate count, just as long as it stood a chance of putting him in the lead. As it turned out, there was no legal standard by which he could get the results he wanted.

    Algore lost. Dubya won. Deal with it.

    --
    20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
  44. What about phones? by VivianC · · Score: 2

    I haven't seen anyone else mention this yet so I'll raise the question:

    I live in Illinois and have SBC/Ameritech as my phone company. When I moved a couple miles north (still in the same county), they could get my phone service fixed for a month. As soon as they did, I switched over to AT&T Digital for my phones. My phones now un through the cable.

    So how is this going to affect my phones?

    --
    Viv

    Gmail invites for ip
  45. Re:Bad Ruling by geekoid · · Score: 2

    but wouldn't it be better to have to large corporations copeting for your dollars?

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  46. Re:come again? by geekoid · · Score: 2

    changed to what?
    If its straight popular vote, only about 15 states will every hear from any federal poitical candidate.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  47. The Internet is not an "information service" by Perianwyr+Stormcrow · · Score: 2

    "Information Service" implies a one-to-many system. The true value of the Internet is not in making it into TV. The cable folks have a weird belief that the Internet's only value lies there- they've spent millions convincing themselves that nothing is changing, and now they figure they may as well refigure the world to match their lack of vision.

    People connecting to other people is the true value of the Internet. It is an enabler for communication and commerce, not a videofeed.

    As such, the phone and the Internet are merely iterations of the same thing. Why this logic was ignored is obvious:

    The FCC is owned. Guess by whom?

    --

    What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey

  48. Re:Fix page widening! by unitron · · Score: 2
    AMEN!

    I want to browse at -1, I just don't want to have to spead the picture out over 87 monitors in order to do it.

    --

    I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  49. Re:Bad Ruling by unitron · · Score: 2

    But they aren't competing. In my neighborhood the company with a monopoly on cable TV (Time-Warner) offers a choice-Roadrunner or AOL, both owned by Time-Warner. My experience with them as a cable TV provider has me convinced that they are my last choice as ISP, right behind tin cans and string. In order to stay with my current ISP (and my current e-mail addresses), I have to stay with dial-up. Sprint has been saying "real soon now" about DSL for about 3 years now, and I suspect they're waiting until they can offer it only for ISPs that they own. The only competition going on is between these giant corporations to see how big a monopoly each can become and how fast they can do it.

    --

    I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  50. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on! by Erris · · Score: 2
    Whoh, that was so stupid that I have to quote the whole thing and reference it, because no one will believe it otherwise:

    I think that the key difference between Cablecos and telcos is that Telcos, as far as POTS is concerned, are treated as common carriers: they have no editorial control over what goes over their lines, and have to file tariffs (rate cards) with the FCC and the state PUC which in turn need regulatory approval. Cablecos are not Common Carriers, so they get editorial control over what goes over their wires (ie, you don't get channels they don't supply, but in turn they have some liability for their content). The general feeling at the Federal and most state levels, from what I've seen, is that cable TV and internet services are not seen as sufficently vital to everyday life (as opposed to basic telephone service, which is considered to be such) for the providers to be granted Common Carrier status.

    Editorial control from my ISP? I think not. Your view, and that at the moronic Federal and State levels, only make sense if your ISP is really an entertianment company pushing crap down your throat. That's not what the internet is for, and it is outrageous that the public right of way is being given to people who think differently.

    Get this! I'm not paying an ISP for yet another way to get Hollywood garbage. I'm paying my ISP for communications services. That my ISP would exercise "editorial" control by keeping me from serving, and that my ISP is a monopoly carrier is OBVIOULY against the public interest. My internet connection is worth more to me than my phone, my tv and all my magazine subscriptions as it has taken their place. My desire to contribute to the public domain is shared by countless others, who get it. Blocking our contributions will destroy the web as a forum of information creation and make it worthless, much like the poorly regulated Cable TV, and broadcast media.

    Now go tell your friends what I said so I don't have to kick their ass.

    --
    DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
  51. You don't understand physics. by El+Camino+SS · · Score: 2


    Read a physics book.

    The bandwidth in the open air is limited. Period. If someone is on the same frequency at the same time, you can't operate. You also cannot "split" that specific frequency. There are also issues like multipath, harmonics, and natural interference.

    ANY SEALED CONDUCTOR MATERIAL CAN ACT LIKE A WHOLE NEW COMPLETE SKY BANDWIDTH, ADDING ANOTHER THOUSAND THAT CAN'T FIT IN THE SKY. Ta--DA!

    SAY YOU CAN ONLY HAVE 1000 people "in the sky" at a time.

  52. Re:There is a serious lack of understanding here.. by isdnip · · Score: 2

    > Nearly all cable TV providers operate under municipally-granted monopolies

    Flat-out wrong. Exclusive (monopoly) cable franchises were banned, federally, in 1992; before that, franchises were often nonexclusive anyway. Many cities granted multiple franchises. Each operator started building at one spot and continued until it met the next operator's system, and stopped. Simple economics dictate that you're better off investing to be the first cable company someplace than the second.

    Cablecos are monopolies in most places because nobody in their right mind wants to be the second one. You have the same cost (to build cable past houses) and a lower market share (zero to begin with), which means a higher unit cost, and lower margins. RCN is an "overbuilder". Look at their financials.

    Telephone companies on the other hand had state exclusives up until federal law changed in 1996. A few states allowed local telephone competition just before that, but the terms were usually ornery. Telephone companies also benefit from "universal service" programs (taxes).

  53. More stuff you won't believe by markhb · · Score: 2

    Editorial control from my ISP? I think not. Your view, and that at the moronic Federal and State levels, only make sense if your ISP is really an entertianment company pushing crap down your throat. That's not what the internet is for, and it is outrageous that the public right of way is being given to people who think differently.



    1. I didn't say that it was the way I thought things ought to be, I stated it as my view of the way things are. There's a difference.
    2. There is no "public right-of-way" in the sense you're using it, at least not in the USA. NSFNet shut down April 30, 1995, when the backbone was privatized. Since then, the US Internet has been a collection of leased lines and custom-laid cables, each of which is leased or owned by some very large corporation, connected by a series of NAPs run either privately or as co-ops. The only reason your traffic gets to use these is that disrupting your stuff entirely would kill their business model (they don't want people to think they would do that).


    Get this! I'm not paying an ISP for yet another way to get Hollywood garbage. I'm paying my ISP for communications services. That my ISP would exercise "editorial" control by keeping me from serving, and that my ISP is a monopoly carrier is OBVIOULY against the public interest. My internet connection is worth more to me than my phone, my tv and all my magazine subscriptions as it has taken their place. My desire to contribute to the public domain is shared by countless others, who get it. Blocking our contributions will destroy the web as a forum of information creation and make it worthless, much like the poorly regulated Cable TV, and broadcast media.



    You know, I don't actually disagree with you (except for the part where you equate me with a moron). If I did, I wouldn't have spent several years as a public-access station's representative to the state association, much less served on that Association's board. But right now, what you're advocating ain't the way it is. If your Internet connection means as much to you as you say it does, I strongly suggest you harness your rhetorical energies and direct them someplace they might do some good, like your state PUC (see if they have an ombudsman that might listen), or your state Representative or your Congressman. Because right now, there is no actual free Internet, and there hasn't been one for years. And bitching at me won't do one bit of good to change that, 'cause I'm just some shithead on Slashdot.
    --
    Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
    1. Re:More stuff you won't believe by Erris · · Score: 2
      Oh, sorry about that. I get really fed up with the idea that I'm just some kind of "consumer" of bits, to be driven into a self consuming frezy of spending on empty and unsatifying nonsense. Kind of like fast food and obesity, imagine that. I also missed the key phrase, "in the view of," not your own. Blind rage, oh well it keeps the rhetoric practiced.

      There is, however, a "right of way". It exists between my house and yours. Power lines, gas lines and even these little words travel over it. It is a public thing and it CAN be claimed if those given stewardship fail to live up to their reponsibilities. One day, I might even be able to serve that public good. Time, it takes time.

      --
      DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.